Could we please remove the Category Parameter from Military Stickers?

+17 votes
541 views

Every day I have quite a few magically created, weirdly named red links due to the use of a category parameter in the military stickers (it's usually called unit= ). Could we please revamp the military stickers so that these are dropped? How about a simpler sticker with a category added separately? Users would need to search for the right category, but we have the picker and almost all Civil War units have been added to WikiTree. (this is the worst offender, though not the only one).

Today's weird category, which shows up several times a week is [[Category:name of unit category to add profile to (", United States Civil War" will be added to the unit by the sticker)]]. I don't know how that can appear at the bottom of a page in red and not be questioned. 

in Policy and Style by Natalie Trott G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)

I agree, something needs to be done about stickers and what they do.  There are a few stickers that I use regularly, most of them don't categorize and I like that just fine, can add categories separately, no problem.

Part of the problem is that stickers like those for M&W are extremely complex for a non-techie, and if there is any alteration needed on them it's very easy to get it wrong.  Plus, with specific naming conventions for categories having been established (more or less), if you're not familiar with those conventions, easy to enter what appears to be instinctively right.  Kablooey, red cat.

We need to simplify, simplify, simplify!  The more complex something is, the more errors will be made.

100% in agreement, Danielle.
I agree simpler is better

7 Answers

+13 votes
 
Best answer
I feel your pain, Nat. I get requests (often, but not too often) about the CW sticker, and have to explain exactly how that sticker works to show the unit and to create the cat. Either the explanation in the CW page needs more explanation, or one of the lines needs to be dropped and the cat created separately.
by Pip Sheppard G2G Astronaut (2.7m points)
selected by Rubén Hernández

It took me many tries to get it right myself and I was swearing like a sailor when I was met with red link after red link. I read the explanation, too, and looked at the template page. (I did this on my own profile because I didn't want PMs to get upset with me over the number of edits.)  When I finally figured it out, I ran around the first floor of my house like I was chasing the ice cream man.  enlightened

The Secret Lives of WikiTreers! Hahahahaha!

The only reason I know how to do that sticker is because you chased the ice cream man.
OK, this is completely off-topic, but I will say it anyway - you guys crack me up!

Sometimes, ya just gotta lighten things up. laugh

laugh Har!

Drat, he probably won't be driving by the house today since it's raining! (Also, the neighborhood has few children now and he skips it most of the time. He goes where the money is!)

And speaking of ice cream, while adding some of my Mom's ancestors this weekend I found out one of her Uncle's was an ice cream man.
Nice timing, Paula!

I'm sure I'd have been his best friend. :-)

When our family lived in Hamilton, Ohio, we'd have 2 ice cream trucks come by EVERY day in the summer. One was a guy with the novelty, wrapped goods. His company was something like Ohio Novelties, but we called him Mr.Ohio. lol.  He also sold slushes and penny candy. Then we had Mr. Softee come by, which is the one I always liked best. Of course, my folks had 5 kids, we it was a rare treat, even at 10 cents a pop. 

My favorite childhood sound

+21 votes
Natalie, I feel your pain, but can answer your ending question - how that can appear in red and not be questioned is that most people don't ever see it.  Instead of being at the bottom of what we think of as "the profile", namely the end of the free text section, it is way below stuff that can be considered part of the page footer.  When I work on profiles, I don't scroll all the way down to enable display of the categories unless I have specifically added categories manually - when templates do it automatically, I am oblivious to the fact that categories have been added so I am not ever going to see any that are wrong.  If the categories were not so badly hidden from view, they would be more likely to be noticed.
by Gaile Connolly G2G Astronaut (1.2m points)
Gaile, this happened regularly even before categories moved to the bottom and I don't see that the occurences have increased after the move, so I don't quite think it's the reason this happens. People left them red even when they were in their line of sight.
Yes Gaile, we removed all category generating from the Holocaust ProjectBox and Sticker, because you and I predicted exactly this problem.
I think the reason Jan and I foresaw this as a potential problem was because we recognized that the stealth addition of categories would lead to problems when parameter values are manually entered.  If we had a selection list limiting parameter values to the existing range of categories, it would not be a problem, but that is probably (I'm guessing here) not possible to code into a template … which brings up another problem.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but (based on many posts I have seen) the design/coding of the templates is apparently difficult for leaders who are non-geeks to master.  The recently announced templates project was opened to non-leaders and, when I accepted the invitation to join, nothing happened for a few weeks.  I posted back there again and received the answer that there it is not possible to program permission specifically for template editing without granting the entire collection of leader permissions.  For years I have been frustrated by watching helplessly while leaders were having great difficulties setting up templates and wished that I could help … I was finally overjoyed to have the opportunity and then told, effectively, that the invitation was rescinded.
Yeah that sucks - Dang things can be such a pain - I have never got the military sticker right for any of them first time - and it seems like they are inconsistent - they do not all work the same way or I would have it down by now - so I was looking forward to getting those figured out
The offer isn't rescinded, it's on a temporary hold while a bug is fixed.
+9 votes
I thought the "unit=" was a free form way to add a unit without putting the soldier in a formal category....

rsl
by Roy Lamberton G2G6 Mach 7 (80.0k points)
Nope. unit= adds a category, and if it's not already a category, it adds a new one.

There is another parameter of units= which is the freeform one.
Now that sounds even more confusing for members who aren't in either categorization or military and war projects.  If I saw parameter options for "unit=" and "units=" I would think the first is for a single unit and the second is for someone who served in more than one unit.  I would never - in a million years - figure that one adds a category and the other doesn't!
Hah, it's confusing for me as well, and it took much practice for me to get right. I think the M&W templates need to be redesigned.
I think ALL templates that are intended to automatically add categories need to be re-designed.  We need to NOT add categories automatically when people are not aware it will happen.  I would propose another parameter to be added to the template options for these cases - call it "category=" and let people enter the category they want to add.  It would also be good - although most likely not technically possible - to pop up the category picker when someone tries to add that option.  If I had template editing capability, I might know the answers to questions like these and if they're not currently possible then I might be able to come up with a workaround to achieve the same effect, or at least to mitigate technical problems.  Then again, there's a saying about the word "if" … if my aunt had different anatomy, she'd have been my uncle.

"I think ALL templates that are intended to automatically add categories need to be re-designed. " I agree with you on that, Gaile. 

I like the idea of using a category= parameter as well. I usually find the category via the picker, then cut/paste the exact category name. It's a bit labor intensive, but I don't mind doing it that way. 

the instructions, if you can find any, which good luck, are not at all clear - I am techy and can do things and code and they do not work like each other much as far as I have seen
Whoops, I forgot why I came into this thread after reading through - lol - anyhow do we not want our military categories filled up?  I mean I think I understand why you want them to not go in the sticker BUT don't we want to encourage the descendants of those that served to get those vets into the right category - I still remember my first military sticker and I thought that was a cool feature of them, but I see where the problem is with that too - I think if we could make a video perhaps like they are for suggestions or just get directions that are foolproof somehow

Gaile in regards to your comment, category picker integration with templates is not currently possible. That would involve much more coding than a template can handle. An extra |category= parameter is possible, but would be redundant in many cases and suffer from the same errors we have now (no matter what the parameter is named).

The real solution is to provide error checking and better instructions. This has always been possible, it is just never been done (outside of Aleš' larger and more complex templates). So a simple solution is provided here.

Navarro, you are correct that in many cases, the instructions are the cause of some of the errors. Hopefully, when the Templates Project is fully functioning, we will have enough people to start reviewing all of the documentation.

Yay! I was right for once!  Thanks Steven, gives me hope that we can get that sorted out and have better results in the future - less errors will make us all happier
This is probably why there are so many issues.  People think it is a free form entry.
+7 votes
I really enjoy having the sticker add the category.    If I need to start adding the Unit/Regiment Category again,  I can handle that,  but it's easier when the sticker adds the Category.   My goal is to have soldiers grouped together with their regiments.   Especially earlier wars like the Civil War,  where the regiment forces came from one small geographical area.   

Is your goal to not have soldiers put into a category and just emphasize the sticker?
by Peggy McReynolds G2G6 Pilot (470k points)
edited by Peggy McReynolds

My goal is not to have several incorrect categories to correct and research every single day, because they end up as red links. I would love to see the categories used on the profiles, but not added by the sticker. 

I just fixed another one right now, since a "unit= " was entered as "unit=25th Massachusetts Infantry". So a red category showed up in my list of "wanted categories." The correct way to enter it so that the category is matching the existing one is "unit=25th Regiment, Massachusetts Infantry". 

Slight correction, Peggy. More likely, for the Civil War, it’s the companies that were geographically and genealogically compact. Much less so for regiments. (This working with so many North Carolina companies/regiments.)

You're so right!!! laugh    I'm used to working with the 4th Ark Cavalry (Union) since both my family lines were in Johnson County, Arkansas for the Civil War..... and they are mainly from Companies A and B, but the current categories don't go below the Regimental Categories, and I didn't want to create a Company subcategory until the number of profiles justified it..  My goal is to create all the profiles for Company A..... and then perhaps Company B.   But not the entire regiment.  It's pretty dramatic when you go to a small cemetery and see so many headstones from the same Company...... yet Confederate and Union mixed together.

I also have Confederate ancestors!!   It was a tricky area to live in.

Time for more caffeine.

I’m working Co. C, 10th NC Artillery (officially 1st). I’ve made some progress profiling them and have had help from Rhonda Z (that goodness!). Nearly all of them came from Mecklenburg and Gaston counties and were related in some way to another.

Where I live (NC mountains) most of my relatives were Confederates, but several crossed the mountains into Tennessee to enlist in the 2nd Tennessee Mounted Infantry, Union. (Mounted Infantry, hmm....) These, like yours, are often buried in the same cemeteries.
+2 votes
Another problem is if you know they were in a war but not the exact unit the sticker puts them in a high level category and that triggers an error report. You should be able to have a sticker to honor a veteran even if you don’t know the exact unit.
by Joelle Colville-Hanson G2G6 Pilot (150k points)

{{Veteran Recognition}} was established for that specific purpose.

A generic veteran sticker is not the same as a Civil War or World War I sticker.
You are correct, but it provides a way to give recognition when no further details that may be required by those stickers are known.
It doesn’t address my concern. I think soldiers should be able to be placed in the high level category of a war when the unit is not known. That way people can find them and maybe find their units. I have found units for several profiles that were in the high level category for the Civil War. That’s not possible with a generic veteran sticker.
Joelle, you can put them into specific high level categories. If there is an error generated for Top Level, do not take it as a fact, but investigate the wording and Military guidance pages. I have removed many of the Top Level templates that were incorrectly placed.
+2 votes
I'm all for getting rid of the categorization by M&W stickers.

The red text on the bottom may be easy to miss but the huge red banner when your category does not exist, should wake up anyone who would be inclined to use categories.

I feel that those who would use categories would be happy to add them manually, especially with the easy to use category picker.
by Juha Soini G2G6 Pilot (118k points)

It would be helpful,  if it's decided to separate the category from the sticker,  to create a  {{Military Category Needed}} to add to a profile instead... so a list of military profiles that are missing their category are created.  Then people comfortable with adding categories could complete the military record.    Otherwise,   a great feature of WikiTree  (I.E. having military units categorized) might be diminished.

I realize some might not add the {{Military Category Needed}}....... another approach might be to  leave the category with the sticker but allow the user to type in UNKNOWN.... which then adds the profile to a list of uncategorized military records.... perhaps getting them off the error report as mentioned by Joelle.

By now you might realize I'm just thinking as I type, so I'll stop throwing out ideas!   The people designing stickers can come up with better ones I'm certain.   But I am concerned about losing military categorization.frown  It's a great benefit if the people creating profiles that have collected military information  (or  else they wouldn't want to add a sticker) help identify the profiles that need more work.

I realize there are a quite a few opinions on this!!!

Juha, there is an alternative option to removing categories from the stickers entirely.

+4 votes

There are a number of ways to combat "funky" category names generated from templates; unfortunately, many templates are not designed with any type of error checking system to help combat this.

In this case, I think I can offer a fairly simple solution:

Add in a parser function to test if the category name that will be added to the profile currently exists:

  • If the category that will be generated for the profile already exists, the sticker and category are added to the profile normally.
  • If the category does not yet exist, such as those misnamed categories, the sticker is added to the profile but the category output is suppressed.

As an example, the following template usage is properly formatted (and category named correctly) so will display the sticker and output a category of [[Category:6th Regiment, New York Cavalry, United States Civil War]] to the profile:

{{US Civil War
 |side = USA
 |enlisted = Sep 14, 1861
 |mustered =Jun 30, 1865
 |regiment flag = Civil_War_Flags-6.png
 |regiment name = New York 6th Volunteer Cavalry
 |rank=Corporal
 |unit=6th Regiment, New York Cavalry
}}

On the other hand, the following template has an improperly named category, and only the sticker would be added to the profile (with no category!):

{{US Civil War
 |side = USA
 |enlisted = Sep 14, 1861
 |mustered =Jun 30, 1865
 |regiment flag = Civil_War_Flags-6.png
 |regiment name = New York 6th Volunteer Cavalry
 |rank=Corporal
 |unit=6th Regiment
}}

by Steven Harris G2G6 Pilot (738k points)
That would certainly be helpful, Steve!
Yes. A great solution, if it would also throw up the great red error banner asking "Are you sure".

Related questions

+3 votes
3 answers
280 views asked Dec 19, 2022 in WikiTree Help by DrO Olmstead G2G6 Mach 1 (11.2k points)
+11 votes
1 answer
+4 votes
3 answers
+6 votes
0 answers

WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

disclaimer - terms - copyright

...