Birth place in Quebec, Canada for my great-grandfather, Joseph Patrick b:1842 Quebec and d:1942 in NYS

+2 votes
141 views
I am 73 years old and have been doing research since 1987 on my Lockhart line.  Once I got a computer in 1998, I got crazy and I have been working on my Lockhart, Crump, Caya, and Patrick line every since.  I have hit a road block on my Patrick line.  I am hoping someone can help me break this road block.  I have gone back to 1710 on my Crump line, 1720 on my Lockhart line, 1610 on my Caya line and only 1842 on my Patrick LIne.  Still missing some current data on my Patrick line as I know that Henry Patrick married an Elizabeth Sherry in New Jersey and they had a son named John Patrick born March 10, 1912 in Newark, NJ.  After Henry died, his wife put her son in an St. Mary's Orphanage in Newark, NJ.  I cannot seem to find any other information on him.
in The Tree House by Elizabeth Post G2G Crew (830 points)
edited by Elizabeth Post

4 Answers

+2 votes

Hi Elizabeth!  Is this your John Patrick, enlisting in 1940?  He has the same birthdate and place. FamilySearch https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2BZ-JVV1

by Shirlea Smith G2G6 Pilot (189k points)
I think i see him in St Mary's Orphanage in 1920.  See the profile.
+2 votes

Not that it helps with his birthplace, but I presume that the following are all your Joseph Patrick?

"United States Census, 1880," database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MH6P-SVG : 15 August 2017), Joseph Patrick in entry for Michael Mack, 1880; citing enumeration district ED 339, sheet 237B, NARA microfilm publication T9 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, n.d), roll 0537; FHL microfilm 1,254,537.

"United States Census, 1900," database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9RP-VPG : accessed 19 August 2019), Joseph Patrick, Hatfield Town, Hampshire, Massachusetts, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 626, sheet 1B, family 13, NARA microfilm publication T623 (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 1972.); FHL microfilm 1,240,654.

"United States Census, 1910," database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M2J2-G25 : accessed 19 August 2019), Joseph Patrick, Leverett, Franklin, Massachusetts, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) ED 504, sheet 6A, family 139, NARA microfilm publication T624 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 1982), roll 589; FHL microfilm 1,374,602.

"United States Census, 1920," database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MXY1-1VW : accessed 19 August 2019), Joseph Patrick, Leverett, Franklin, Massachusetts, United States; citing ED 115, sheet 2B, line 92, family 52, NARA microfilm publication T625 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 1992), roll 698; FHL microfilm 1,820,698.

"United States Census, 1930," database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4TL-V9R : accessed 19 August 2019), Joseph Patrick in household of Charles S Ashley, Potsdam, Saint Lawrence, New York, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) ED 79, sheet 2A, line 13, family 36, NARA microfilm publication T626 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 2002), roll 1642; FHL microfilm 2,341,376.

"United States Census, 1940," database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQYG-4Z3 : 28 July 2019), Joseph Patrick in household of Charles Ashley, Potsdam, Potsdam Town, St. Lawrence, New York, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 45-102, sheet 13A, line 8, family 243, Sixteenth Census of the United States, 1940, NARA digital publication T627. Records of the Bureau of the Census, 1790 - 2007, RG 29. Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 2012, roll 2771.

by Brian Lamothe G2G6 Mach 3 (32.5k points)
ThIs Joseph Patrick is my great-grandfather in all of the above census.
+2 votes

The death record for Joseph's son William gives Joseph's place of birth as St. Elizabeth:

"Massachusetts Deaths, 1841-1915," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTLJ-1D?cc=1463156&wc=MJCP-N38%3A1043041301 : 22 May 2019), 2404250 (004284197) > image 936 of 2099; State Archives, Boston.

I've found a couple records of Patricks in this parish in the right timeframe:

Marie Egilda, b. 10/20/1848

"Québec, registres paroissiaux catholiques, 1621-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-899Q-99XT-R?cc=1321742&wc=HCCF-168%3A23952101%2C23952102%2C24878801 : 16 July 2014), Sainte-Elisabeth > Sainte-Elisabeth > Baptêmes, mariages, sépultures 1846-1865 > image 130 of 740; Archives Nationales du Quebec (National Archives of Quebec), Montreal.

Louise, d. 11/18/1851, 7 years old:

"Québec, registres paroissiaux catholiques, 1621-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G99Q-99F8-2?cc=1321742&wc=HCCF-168%3A23952101%2C23952102%2C24878801 : 16 July 2014), Sainte-Elisabeth > Sainte-Elisabeth > Baptêmes, mariages, sépultures 1846-1865 > image 243 of 740; Archives Nationales du Quebec (National Archives of Quebec), Montreal.

Both were children of one Joseph Patrick and Emerance Savoie.  I think this is a good starting point.

Joseph and Emerence had a son Joseph, b. ~1846 as shown on this 1851 Sainte-Elisabeth census:

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e092/e002299336.jpg

Here is Joseph Patrie's baptism record in Saint-Cuthbert.  He was born March 30, 1847.  Still no guarantees that he is your Joseph, but he seems like an excellent candidate.

"Québec, registres paroissiaux catholiques, 1621-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-899Q-394K-H?cc=1321742&wc=HC4M-4WL%3A19637301%2C19637302%2C20488001 : 16 July 2014), Saint-Cuthbert > Saint-Cuthbert > Baptêmes, mariages, sépultures 1826-1856 > image 506 of 749; Archives Nationales du Quebec (National Archives of Quebec), Montreal.

And for the sake of completion, here is the October 5, 1841  Saint-Cuthbert marriage record for Joseph's parents, giving their parents as well.  Note the variation of the name - Patry, Patrie, and Patrick

"Québec, registres paroissiaux catholiques, 1621-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L99Q-39HS-V?cc=1321742&wc=HC4M-4WL%3A19637301%2C19637302%2C20488001 : 16 July 2014), Saint-Cuthbert > Saint-Cuthbert > Baptêmes, mariages, sépultures 1826-1856 > image 399 of 749; Archives Nationales du Quebec (National Archives of Quebec), Montreal.

by Brian Lamothe G2G6 Mach 3 (32.5k points)
edited by Brian Lamothe
My great-grandfather was born in March 25, 1842 and it was in the newspaper in 1942 that at 100 years old he climbed a mountain in New York State.  Probably in the Adirondeck Mountains.  His date of birth was also listed on his death certificate.  So I don't think this is the same Joseph Patrick
I also forgot to mention that his mother's name was Mary Ann born abt 1818 and she was born in Nova Scotia.  She drowed in the May 16, 1874 Mill River Flood, Leeds, Hampshire County, MA along with several of her children.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this theory, but I agree it needs more research.

I found the 1874 death record you mentioned:

"Massachusetts Deaths, 1841-1915," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DZF3-M4P?cc=1463156&wc=MJCG-BZ9%3A1043010401 : 22 May 2019), 0960205 (004221420) > image 29 of 391; State Archives, Boston.

Notice that one of the sons is Charles Patrick, 24.  This is consistent with the age of the Charles on the 1851 census linked above.

I can also see how Emerance could be Americanized or simply misheard by the recording clerk as Mary or Mary Ann.

What is the source of Mary Ann's Nova Scotia birthplace?

Just to play devil's advocate with the birth date discrepancy: I've had experience with individuals (especially Quebec-born individuals in this same timeframe) not knowing their birth dates or years.  This caused a huge ordeal for one of my ancestors when he was trying to prove his age to increase his Civil War pension.  Even though he never discovered his actual birth date, incorrect birth dates appeared on his death records and gravestone.  I can't say that this is what happened in the case of your ancestor, but I do know it sounds much more impressive to report that a centenarian climbed a mountain than a measly nonagenarian. (Both are actually quite impressive, but I can see the family or the newspaper wanting to exaggerate a little wink)

Mary in 1870:

"United States Census, 1870", database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MD3C-9D1 : 12 June 2019), Mary Patrick, 1870.

This Joseph was living in Acton, Quebec in 1861:

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/jpg/4108658_00048.jpg

Children are Joseph, 14 (1847), Emeragilde, 13 (1848), Charles, 11 (1850), Louise, 9 (1852), (A male who's name I cannot decipher), 8 (1853), Julie, 4 (1857), Delima, 17 (1844)

Compare to the children in the 1870 census in the above comment: Charles, 19 (1851), Mary, 17 (1853), John, 15 (1854), Julia, 13 (1856), Delina, 11 (1858)

It's not a stretch to match these families to each other:

Charles - Charles

Louise - Mary (quite probably baptized as Marie Louise after her deceased sister)

Undecipherable - John (???)

Julie - Julia

Delima - Delina (I suspect that the 1861 census meant to report her age as 17 months, not years, as she appears last in the list)

Joseph Sr. seems to have died around 1861 as well.

Take a look here:

https://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=researchfile&id=I1053&op=GET

This puts the Caya family in Acton as well in the same time period.

As suspected, Rose de Lima Patrick, daughter of Joseph and Emerence, was born in 1859.

"Québec, registres paroissiaux catholiques, 1621-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L993-Z8NP?cc=1321742&wc=HCH4-MNL%3A20948401%2C20948402%2C22149803 : 16 July 2014), Saint-Guillaume > Saint-Guillaume-d'Upton > Baptêmes, mariages, sépultures 1858-1870 > image 111 of 504; Archives Nationales du Quebec (National Archives of Quebec), Montreal.

And this Rose de Lima was clearly the same one who later appeared in Northampton as evidenced by her marriage record giving her parents names:

"Massachusetts Marriages, 1841-1915," database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N43X-2RZ : 24 May 2018), Joseph Jourdanais and Rose Da Lina Patrick, 25 Jul 1880; citing Northampton, Hampshire, Massachusetts, United States, State Archives, Boston; FHL microfilm 1,433,041.

And her listed residence is Williamsburg, which is where your Joseph was living in the same year.

I kind of question Marie Egilda, b. 10/20/1848 as I have Mary Jane Patrick born September 1848 who married Edward F. Payette.  I was given this information by a deceased relative who was the one who got me into genealogy as she had done some research on our Patrick line.  Granted, her information could be wrong.  But I cannot find information on her marriage to Edward Payette.

+1 vote
I am now convinced that your Joseph is the same Joseph born to Joseph Patry and Emerence Savoie in St-Cuthbert, Quebec.  To clear up any doubt, I wanted to reorganize the data I have collected into a clean timeline shown below (sources can be pulled from my other answers and comments).  Between the existence of Rose de Lima's marriage record in Northampton, Joseph's recorded birthplace on his son's death record, and migration patterns of this family, I find it difficult to impossible to pull this theory apart, even considering the conflicting information provided.  I really hope this helps you moving forward.

10/5/1841 - Joseph Patry/Patrie/Patrick (Sr.) marries Emerence Savoie in St-Cuthbert

3/30/1847 - Joseph (Jr.) is born to Joseph and Emerence in St-Cuthbert

10/20/1848 - Marie Egilda is born to Joseph and Emerence in Ste-Elisabeth

11/18/1851 - Death of Joseph and Emerence's daughter Louise, buried in Ste-Elisabeth

1851 - Joseph, Emerence, and children Joseph, Marie G. (Probably Marie Egilda), and Charles appear on Ste-Elisabeth census

9/6/1859 - Rose de Lima is born to Joseph and Emerence in St-Guillaume

1861 - Joseph, Emerence, and children Joseph, Emeragilde, Charles, Louise, another son, Julie, and Delima appear on Acton census.  Joseph Sr. died in this year aged 43.

There are many parish records relating to the Caya family (Joseph Jr.'s wife's family) in this time period in Acton and the nearby parish of Saint-Germain-de-Grantham.

Sometime in this time frame Joseph Jr. starts misreporting his age - I believe this could be related to finding employment as a minor or possible Civil War enlistment though I do not see evidence that he served.

1870 - Mary (probably Americanized from Emerence) appears alone with children Charles, Mary, John, Julia, and Delina in Northampton, MA.  Birth dates and most names align with those on 1861 census.

5/16/1874 - Mary and children Julia and Charles die in Northampton, MA.  Mary is described as widowed, and children have parents given as Joseph and Mary.

7/25/1880 - Rose De Lima Patrick marries Joseph Jourdenais in Northampton, MA.  Her parents are given as Joseph Patrick and Emerence Savoie and her residence is given as Williamsburg.

1880 - Joseph appears with wife Mary and twin sons Henry and William on Williamsburg, MA census.

1900 - Joseph appears with wife Mary A. and daughter Lima A. in Hatfield, MA.

1910 - Joseph appears with wife Angeline, daughter Mary Alice and granddaughter Mabel in Leverett, MA.

10/5/1914 - Joseph's son William dies falling from church steeple.  Record gives Joseph's birth place as St. Elizabeth, Canada.

1920-1940 Joseph appears in Leverett, MA, and Potsdam, NY.

1942 - Joseph climbs a mountain at advanced age - reported as 100 years old when actually 95.

1942 - Joseph dies - birth date is misreported as 3/25/1842, exactly 5 years and 5 days off of actual birth date.
by Brian Lamothe G2G6 Mach 3 (32.5k points)
edited by Brian Lamothe
I can't believe you found all this information that I have been looking for for years.  Thank you so much!

You're very welcome.  I took special interest as one of my cousins had a couple photos of one Isaac Patrick, who was also born in Canada that I thought might be connected somehow.  I didn't find his connection, but I am certainly glad to have helped break down your brick wall.

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