Should we have a tag "Needs LNAB changed"?

Question

I'm relatively often coming across profiles with Last Names At Birth being wrong, either because they belong to people immigrating to the USA and having their family names anglicized, or they were born out of wedlock and had their family name changed  when "legitimized by subsequent marriage" or adoption, or in the case of aristocrats who have their titles included as family names ("Princess of ...") or in English and not their native language (Hanover vs. Hannover for example). Going through the process of getting on the Trusted List is lengthy, often a request to have the LNAB changed goes unanswered, or the PM is not active anymore, or overwhelmed by simply too much to do (especially poor EuroAristo people). As a result profiles needing this change get lost in the process. Having a tag "Needs change of LNAB" with the placement in an appropriate maintenance category would make it much easier to keep track of these profiles and go back to do the necessary changes after an Unresponsive Profile Manager request has gone through.

Comments

Of course the *real* fix would be to not base the unique database ID on user input....

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Absolutely, J, but that is a *real* problem because it is way too late to be able to change that without practically re-doing the entire database architecture and having system-wide impact on the software - much too major an effort to even dream about.

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I'm not sure it really would be that major an undertaking to assign a new database ID to every existing profile. There'd need to be redirects from the old LNAB-NN-style IDs to whatever the new style of ID was, but that'd be a simple two-column table.

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Actually, J, they do have a unique numeric ID field for each profile.  The redirects needed sound like a major nightmare to me, though, especially when you consider all the merged profiles that already have redirects and all the links that are in the biography sections.  On top of that, you'd need to train all the members in the new ID that each profile would have, which is much less meaningful to them than the current IDs, even allowing for the sequential numbers appended to the LNABs.  It's not just the records in the main table … I don't know anything about their architecture, but would expect that there are 2 or more additional tables used to store parent/child and spouse relationships that would also be impacted.  Now that I think about it, it's more like a database apocalypse than an ordinary nightmare.

PS  Grrrrr!!!!  I just noticed that I've apparently been involuntarily logged out.

Answer 1

I would also suggest something along those lines.  I recently came across a profile with UNKNOWN as the LNAB.  I've tried to message the PM to let them know the LNAB but have not heard back from them yet.

Comments

Good point.  I would suppose that the appropriate tag/category/template for a profile LNAB "Unknown" plus a profile comment or == Research Note == would be enough that a follow on editor could understand that the LNAB should be something else.

Answer 2

Sounds like a reasonable and logical suggestion.

Would it be possible just to create a category?  That seems like an easy way to make it happen almost immediately and get some tracking on these.

Answer 3

Interesting idea that could probably be applicable more often than we realize.  Had my own experience in this area, but in the opposite direction.  I have a many-great grandmother whose profile has a LNAB but it should be "unknown".  When the PM removed themselves from it I started working on a new biography explaining how the incorrect name had come to be applied on Ancestry.  Unfortunately I was writing it on my computer and as I was getting it ready, someone else adopted it who is not a descendant.  I reworked the profile anyway and later corresponded with the current PM to get the last name changed to "unknown".  They refused because it was a name they were interested in and didn't want to change it to "unknown".  After several emails in which I tried to explain, with examples, why it needed to be changed, they stopped communicating after the only example they offered proved to be a perfect example of what I was explaining.  So it still hasn't been changed to "unknown" and has a profile that goes into detail explaining why the stated LNAB is inappropriate.  So I definitely agree that such a tag, category or whatever could prove to be useful.

Comments

Art, that's the kind of problem you can bring to the community for resolution.

Post about it in G2G. Link to the profile. Without naming names of members, describe the evidence for the different points of view, and ask for advice.

Answer 4

There is already a category that can be used for these circumstances -- [[Category: Needs LNAB]] 

If the profile has Unknown or UNKNOWN as LNAB you can add {{Unknowns}} as a category which will bring it to the attention of members of the Unknowns Project.

Comments

Yes, see here.

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The [[Category: Needs LNAB]] category merely marks the profile already has "Unknown" as its  LNAB.  It doesn't mark that the profile has the wrong LNAB.

The Unknowns Project doesnt' seem to have this situation in the scope of their project.  Perhaps they could add it?  I've added the unknowns tag for their attention.

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In the Dutch Roots Project it is used when issues about the correct LNAB need be resolved.

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If so, that perfectly answers this question.  I don't see a description on the category page - has the usage been agreed to and standardized?  

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Needs_LNAB

If so, then the category page just needs a description.  If not, it would need to be formalized and then the page updated.

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New Netherland uses "Needs LNAB" for situations where the appropriate LNAB still needs to be determined. Usually this means that research needs to be done and documented.

If a member believes they have identified the appropriate LNAB, they can document it in a note in the Research Notes section of the profile (indicate the name and the evidence for it, and sign the note with 4 tildes) or in a profile message. And it helps to alert the project with a message that includes a meaningful subject line (not "Your profile on WikiTree").

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Ellen, do we have a way of marking a profile that the appropriate LNAB has been determined but hasn't been implemented yet?

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New Netherland has Category:New Netherland Settlers Project Needs LNAB Correction. It's a project-specific category. It's not a standard maintenance category. Maybe it should become standard.

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A description has just been added to the category:

 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Needs_LNAB

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That's great!  It pretty much wraps up this question, yes?

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Except it doesn't fit the way we use it for New Netherland.

And there are well over 1000 profiles in the New Netherland Needs LNAB category.

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Anyone can edit the text on the category page. I described the use of the category I'm familiar with, hoping that it would be better than nothing. Apologies if it does not fit everyone's use of it.

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I'm concerned that the revisions to the description has repurposed these categories on an ad hoc basis without due consideration of their previous purposes. These categories are used by Projects, and profiles are added to them via a Needs= parameter in the project box.

The description of the New Netherland Settlers Project Needs LNAB category (first written in March 2017 and last revised in November 2018) reads:

The profiles in this category need to have their earliest church records located and transcribed so that it can be used by the New Netherland Settlers project to determine the correct last name at birth (LNAB) for the profile, following the policy outlined in the project's naming convention page. Many church books are linked from Baptism and Marriage Records of the Dutch Reformed Church in America.

If research determines that the LNAB is something other than the LNAB currently on the profile, please add a note to the profile to identify the appropriate LNAB (and the reasoning for it) and place the profile in Category:New Netherland Settlers Project Needs LNAB Correction.

Some other Projects have descriptions of the Needs LNAB category.  The descriptions show that different Projects are not using the categories the exact same way.  I revised the description to advise people to check the specific Project's category description for information on the way the specific Project uses the category.

Answer 5

Interesting option Helmut, just went through some name corrections recently, asking PMs to do it wasn't happening, asked to be put on TL, which was accorded quickly, fixed them and out of there, done.

Not everybody is as cooperative though, I agree. 

Somebody pointed out there is already a category:Needs LNAB, I think there should be a separate category created :  Needs LNAB corrected for these cases. 

Comments

As noted above, New Netherland has Category:New Netherland Settlers Project Needs LNAB Correction. It's a project-specific category. It's not a standard maintenance category.

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I think I might just implement such for Québécois project, definitely something that turns up a lot, with dit names getting thrown into LNAB, with duplicate profiles galore because of it.

Answer 6

I actually would like to see a research note box like the one {{Unsourced}} creates. I have been adding notes to profiles that have wrong LNAB, but they tend to disappear among the other text in the bio.

Why not create a template like {{LNAB|Correct Name|Country}} that would create a research note box and add the profile to the correct maintenance category.

Answer 7

Yes!!! And, they need to make it simple.  Also, make learning fun, make it a joy to work on R.I.P. profiles and to update the system to STOP on profiles when dates are before 1776 and people accidentally add USA/United States or click on suggestion from drop down menu. And, if locations are added and when TOO SHORT Red Flag it like here, (you can't see it) below it says," Please provide more information - at least 10 characters." I wanted to just agree and answer the question, with a "Yes!!!"  Huge thanks to those who contribute their time on WikiTree.  Very nice people here and always willing to help.  Good luck!