Can someone remove Elizabeth Drake-1803 as daughter from Sir Francis "1st Baronet Drake of Buckland Abbey" Drake-1804?

+2 votes

Elizabeth Drake-1803 Elizabeth Drake (project protected) is not the daughter of Sir Francis Drake Sir Francis Drake-1804.

WikiTree profile: Francis Drake
in The Tree House by Karen Brubaker G2G6 (7.1k points)
edited by Karen Brubaker

2 Answers

+4 votes
Cite your sources
by Eddie King G2G6 Pilot (604k points)

Click on names to see profiles:

Elizabeth Drake Elizabeth Drake-6002

Elizabeth Drake Elizabeth Drake-1803

Sir Francis Drake  Francis Drake-1804

Robert Drake Robert Drake-15

Joane Gawton Joane (Gawton-1) Drake

Books are secondary and tertiary sources, not to be relied upon unless they contain actual document citations. I'm not saying you're wrong but primary sources are preferred when the intent is to make such a drastic change.
Thank you to everybody for all your help. It's very much appreciated.
+3 votes

1) first thing it might be a good idea to add the Southern Colonies tag and the Magna Carta tag. Although the profile is ppp, the project isn't a manager. Both projects might want some input 

I had a look, I'm no expert on this area but it left me with questions, this is what I 'found'

2) There is certainly a baptism of an Elizabeth Drake, d of Robert Drake baptised in Mertsham, Surrey 9 Sept 1628.That is sourced in the bio (Surrey parish reg p 23/1/1; I found the baptism from the ref on ancestry which has images of Surrey registers)

3) I can see that both Elizabeth Drakes are supposed to have married the same man John Councill so on the face of it are duplicates

4) According to Vivian's version of the Devon pedigrees, Elizabeth, d of Sir Francis Drake of Buckland and his wife Joan Stroud (p 299) married  on 14 Feb 1638/9 at Bere Ferrers Devon a John Trefusis (and to make things slightly 'odd' after Sir Francis's death Joan Stroud married John Trefusis in 1639; wikipedia suggests that this was John Trefusis senior)  and (citing Cornwall visitation)

If this is correct then Elizabeth d of Sir Francis of Buckland ke-1804 did not marry John Councill in 1638.(and have just realised this Elizabeth has a profile

I think that removing Elizabeth Drake as a daughter of Sir Francis would seem to be correct.The two Eizabeths  married to John Councill would also seem to be dupliclates.

 but where is the evidence that an  Elizabeth Drake of Mertsham Surrey  married John Councill? says she married in 1638 in Springfield Devon.

sources are

  1. U.S. and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900. Source number: 663.000; Source type: Electronic Database; Number of Pages: 1; Submitter Code: CGJ.
  2. ↑ 3.0 3.1 Councill, Judson: Hodges Councill of Virginia and Descendants (1941), p. 1859.

a)The first source isn't a very reliable source, it's made up from various sources including unsourced pedigrees

b)The book is better as it includes it's sources but the author says 

p 18 It has been claimed that John Councill first married Elizabeth Drake of Springfield Devon and that she was a close relative of Sir Francis Drake but I have seen no evidence of it

p59 Hodges Council was the son of John Council and his wife Elizabeth Drake of Devonshire England.

c)If she was baptised in 1628 it is very likely since  most baptisms took place very close to birth in this period that she was only about 10 years old when she was supposed to be married. This is unlikely

d) I'm not an expert on Devon but I can't find a parish of Springfield to check the register ( a few Caravan sites in divers parts of the county )

e) The profile of her purported father (Robert Drake of Mertsham) states (using Richardson as a source) that he had a d (b 1628) who married a Parramore. I can't access Richardson but found this google books  This suggests a marriage in c 1648 (but with only 'circumstantial evidence) 

Surely more evidence is needed to link Elizabeth Drake of Mertsham with John Council .More evidence is also needed for John Councill himself .I can't see anything on his profile and it says he came from Springfield Devon

by Helen Ford G2G6 Pilot (354k points)
edited by Helen Ford
Re Springfield, there seems to be an area in Barnstaple called Springfield and certainly a later Drake moved to live there. I had a look on Family search and on Free reg but didn't find a marriage there.(On Free Reg I didn't find a single Council (soundex) baptised and just one marriage (Counsell) in  the Devon parishes they have transcribed 1600-1700.

Thank you for all your input. I just discovered a biography for Elizabeth Drake born 1626, baptized 29 Oct 1626 and died before 17 Sep 1628 in Merstham, Surrey, England. She is on a chart from "Descendants of Charlemagne..." She was a dau of Robert Drake (gateway ancestor). Her sister with the same name lived on and married John Parramore. I don't know who John Council married.

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