Need pre-1500 help with Vernon-34

Question

In July of this year, Dan Norum posted on this profile that Vernon-695 is supposed to be the father of Vernon-34. This still needs to be corrected. I looks to me like Dan knows a lot about this family. Would someone who is with the British Royals and Aristocrats Project look over his post and make sure we have the correct family connections going on.

Thanks!

Comments

I added England tag. It should get some attention.

Answer 1

The problem is much deeper than just the wrong father, there seems to be a blending of two Vernon families and the son Richard Vernon seems to be attached to the correct father or at least the correct grandfather.  Even the biography of Vernon-34 would appear to be confusing the two Richard Vernons.

So it's not clear to me at this stage what is the best way to fix this and it may take several changes.

I'd also add that the sources currently on the profile and the one provided are not considered reliable for pre-1500 sources, apart from perhaps the Douglas Richardson source, but that only seems to be supporting one of the marriages.

Comments

Thank you for looking into this. Sounds messy. I’m glad you are looking into this.

---

Actually it's not a blending of two different families, it's all the same family, but with a few additions that don't belong and can't be adequately sourced, like Juliana Vesci.

---

Is there any research I could help with?

---

Could be partly blended.  According to Hoare,

https://archive.org/details/TheHistoryOfModernWiltshireVol1/page/n319

the Vernons of Horningsham (whose daughter is supposed to have married a Stourton) aren't known to be related to the other Vernons.

---

So The history of modern Wiltshire / By Sir Richard Colt Hoare has an entirely different Vernon family than our Vernon-34? 

---

The Mansions of England in the Olden Time: With the Original One ..., Volume 1> Par Joseph Nash,M. C. Anderson:
"... Haddon next was held of the crown by tenure of knight's service by one Avenall, who now became tenant-in-chief. Little is known concerning the family of this far-off lord of "Haduna." It seems, however, that the last of the Avenalls left two daughters, co-heiresses\emdash one, Elizabeth, who married Simon Bassett, her sister Avicia, about 1195, marrying Richard Vernon. Richard was son of Warine de Vernon, and younger brother of Ralph de Vernon, successively barons of Shipbrook. This Richard de Vernon lived at Haddon,* and became ancestor of that race of nobles who held Haddon by direct descent from this time (with an unexplained interregnum, extending from 1265 to 1278, when the property was held under the crown by Gilbert le Franceys) till the year 1567. ..."

I found the above reference on a website about the Vernons of Nether Haddon. If this source is correct then Franceys-17 is not the Lord of Nether Haddon, nor is his son, Vernon-34. The correct line of Lord of Nether Haddon is through Vernon-35, who is right now shown as Baron of Shipbrook.

This looks like some of the confusion over these 2 lines.

---

The peerage of England. 3 vols. [in 4. Sig. N6,7 of vol. 1, 3B1 of vol. 2 ...> Par Arthur Collins:
"... Warine de Vernon, fourth Baron of Shipbroke, living temp. Hen. III. whose eldest son, Richard de Vernon, in 37 Hen. III. had a grant of the custody of the castle and manor of the Pecke, and dying before his father, left issue, four sons; whereof William, the third, was Chief Justice of Chester, of whom presently; and Warine, the eldest, married Auda, third daughter, and one of the co-heirs of William Malbank, Baron of Wich-Malbank, now Namptwich, in the county of Chester (descended from William Malbank, Baron of Wich-Malbank, in 20 William.I.) with whom he acquired a great number of manors in that county, and was father of Warine, ..."

This source says that it is Vernon-105 (Warine) who is Baron of Shipbroke and not his son, Vernon-35 (Richard).