Spanish Record Translation. I Do Need The Help

+2 votes
85 views

About a week ago I posted a question about options/actions for a person just beginning to try to translate Spanish Church records when the priest's handwriting is hard to read.  I have tried everything that was suggested. Some of it did help, I have made a little progress.  But the time has come for this newbie to admit that this record has defeated me.  My major problem is not the words or phrases it is before that; I can't pick out words or phrases when I can't read the handwriting itself.  I do know some of the words now, but not enough to create a translation. 

I am asking for translation help/assistance on the Marriage Record of Juan Damian Archuleta & Juana Micaela Salazar: January 29, 1772: Holy Cross Catholic Church, Santa Cruz, New Mexico, New Spain.  FHL# 16972  Image 81  Page 7                                       Film url: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99DX-8XYW?i=80

Anyone who is kind enough to help might benefit by looking at the *transcribed & translated* 1782 Marriage Record on the Spanish Vital Records space page, it was written by a different priest at the same church, and it did help me because some of the context is similar.                             

For those who consider helping me with this... I am open to some kind of reciprocal in-kind service/help in return to help you with your genealogy. If I can, I will. 

WikiTree profile: Steve Archuleta
in The Tree House by Steve Archuleta G2G5 (5.9k points)
edited by Steve Archuleta

Reality Check #1.  When you can only think, process, speak, and read in English... trying translate a foreign language document might mean you are delusional from the 'get-go'.  frown  smiley

commented 1 second ago by Steve Archuleta

1 Answer

+5 votes
 
Best answer

Hello Steve.

As you say, it's a hard to decipher handwriting.

Besides the usual phrases that can be found in the help pages (Santo Concilio de Trento, facie ecclesie, etc), the only other information in the record is the date, the names of the spouses and the names of the godparents (padrinos).

Transcription:

Margin Annotation:

Juan Damian Archuleta con Juana Salasar C[asados] y V[elados]

Main text:

en beinte y nuebe de enero de mil setesien

tos y setenta y dos a[ños]. haviendo presedido las de

ligensias nesesarias que el S[an]to concilio de tren

to manda y no haviendo resultado impedimen

to alguno case y vele in facie eccle[si]e a Juan

Damian Archuleta con Juana Micha

ela Salasar [,] fueron padrinos Joseph


Miguel Lusero y Josepha Salasar y para que

conste lo firme ut supra

[Signature] Fr[ay] Andres Garcia

(Words that break at the end of a text line are underlined)

by Rubén Hernández G2G6 Pilot (671k points)
selected by Pip Sheppard

"deligensias" = Correct modern Spanish spelling "diligencias" = proceedings.

So.. 1st admission, this record WAS above this beginner's skill level.  Now, a rookie question? Could the priest, with his bad handwriting be writing his v's in a way that they look like b's  to us?  January 29 is the marriage date, and if you replace his b's with v's you come pretty close to google translate's Veintinueve y nueva de enero.  The only word that I could pick out in that 1st sentence before (your experienced eyes) was enero... and it makes sense that he is writing January 29th.  If what looks like a 'b' is actually a 'v' then it sort of falls into place. Am I 'off' on this?  (THANK YOU !!)
 

You are welcome, Steve.

In regard to "v" vs "b", the priest wrote b's. but, - as explained in the help page - in earlier times, in Spanish written records, "b = v".

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Spanish_Vital_Record_Research_Hints#Spanish_words_to_look_for

... and "v = b". "haviendo" = Correct modern Spanish spelling = "habiendo".

OMG!  I am so embarrassed! I worked on the project with you folks.. how did I miss that (!) right on the translation help space page I helped to create! This makes a big difference in translating this hard-to-read record: "In those early years many of the relevant countries used double letters, silent letters, and spellings that were later changed (i.e. "b = v" or "z = s = c"  or "j = g = x"  or "x=r" ). At times, the words were written phonetically (as they sounded)."  Thank you Rubén!

At that time, my name could have been written Ruven herns

Glad we are in the XXI century!

Ruven herns

Hmm....Easier than finding the accented e (é). cheeky

The good news is that now we have the "Qopi / paçte" functonality, Pip.    laugh

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