GRO reference as a source

Question

I'm just beginning to add profiles and I want to start as I mean to go on.  Is it useful to list a GRO index reference as a source?  I have hundreds of them but have only ever bought a handful of actual certificates.  But perhaps they would be useful to others accessing the profile?

Comments

When I use the GRO I put everything between ref tags that I get from the search results, with a link to the search page.  It is the same information family search gives you, without the reference to the "Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City".

---

Thanks, Melanie.  My question was whether or not GRO index references actually are sources or not and It appears from your answer which addressed how to cite them that they are.  I read some of the other threads on the same subject and am inclined to make the citation just the GRO information and not mention where I found it.

Jim

---

If you are using it as your source, then you need to say where you got the information.

Any source we add should contain sufficient information for anyone else to also find that same information.  The actual source of the source.

If that is the GRO, then the GRO needs to be cited.  It's as simple as <ref>[https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp GRO UK online index search Deaths:] Name: PAUL, ARTHUR EDMUND Age at Death (in years): 46 GRO Reference:1909 J Quarter in HENDON Volume 03A Page 143</ref>

Or, if using just "GRO UK" isn't enough, you could always use instead "HM Passport Office General Register Office" in its place.

But however you do it, if you got or get your information FROM the GRO, you must cite the GRO.

---

Would you please tell the rest of us what GRO is?

---

Julie..  it's right there in my last post.

Or, if using just "GRO UK" isn't enough, you could always use instead "HM Passport Office General Register Office" in its place.

commented by Melanie Paul

 

---

Frequently Asked Questions  https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/faq.asp

---

Not to be too obtuse about it, but if I say "GRO births, Sep 1888 Dibley, vol 2 p 89" have I not in fact referenced the GRO?  The fact that this reference could be found at FreeBMD, the GRO's own search site, FindMyPast, Ancestry or FamilySearch and perhaps others, doesn't seem to me to add much of use.

One reason I say this is that I do not now have the internet source from which I obtained my hundreds of GRO references and would have to do another search on each one to get the www part of the citation.  If it is replied that the www part of the citation is generic for each site and could be copied from one citation to another, then I wonder again of how much use it is.

Jim

---

I guess the usefulness of including the generic GRO url is to make it "easier" for those who wish to use online resources to look for themselves.

Regardless of HOW you do it, stating that the GRO is the source is what is important (and including volume and page numbers) .. and you had said you were inclined to NOT say where you found the information.  Hence my response.

---

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp is the only repository you need for births and deaths in England and Wales after 1837. Just copy the result, eg

Birth Registration: WILKINS, JAMES, Mother's Maiden Surname: HUMFREE, GRO Reference: 1842  J Quarter in BANBURY UNION  Volume 16  Page 3

and add "citing General Register Office, Southport, England. (GRO Online: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp)"

or somesuch. You can't link directly to the result but it's easy to find the record again.

Edit: Bolding added

---

Jim, if you cite the reference but do not state where you got that reference from it is not a complete citation. The various copies of the GRO index are not always the same and in many cases if you find a reference on one site it may not exist on one of the other sites because they may have transcribed the original record differently.

---

I think the challenge here is that what is common sense for one person is complete nonsense for others. As you've seen here in the thread, many have no clue what the initials GRO even stand for, much less how to find the information, and even worse, might make up something or replace it if they think it's garbage in the file. It's always best to give as much reasonable clarification as possible so that someone else can follow your research. As others have mentioned, it's ideal that you can click on the reference and get to the specific item referenced, however, the next best thing would be to send them to the site where they can do their own search. And barring that, at least spell out what you researched, where you researched it, and give enough information so that someone can go out and search the internet and follow your line of thinking.

---

I actually never put the initials "GRO".  I always call it "England & Wales birth registration" (or marriage registration, or death registration).

---

Or you could call it General Register Office, Southport, England, HM Passport Office since that is the name of the repository and it's currently under HM Passport Office.

---

That would be part of it.  But I would still prefer to start the citation off with "England & Wales whatever registration" because that tells the viewer what it is.  General Register Office tells you where it's at.  People who are unfamiliar with it might say "General Register Office? What's that, then?"

---

I am revising how I cite the GRO, as of the next profile I do where that is the source, to include the England & Wales bit.  (I've also started (some while ago, now) expanding the Australian BDM registry offices to use the full State name, just for those who don't know our abbreviations.)

Anything that makes it easier/better for others to find the source.

Answer 1

Caution! Not all GRO index references are equal.

There are several sources of the GRO index and they are definitely not all of the same quality so it is important to differentiate them and cite the best version available.
In quality order I use:

1. General Register Office https://www.gro.gov.uk
This is the OFFICIAL source of civil birth, marriage, death and other registrations in England and Wales.
The online search facility only covers births from 1837-1917 and deaths from 1837-1957.
The online database is an index of the birth and death certificates held by the GRO.
The information in the online database was transcribed by the GRO and contains errors. They allow you to submit corrections but do not always act on them.

2. FreeBMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/
FreeBMD is a volunteer project to transcribe the Civil Registration index of births, marriages and deaths for England and Wales.
FreeBMD have been transcribing the GRO index books (either hand written or typeset books) which were issued by the GRO.
The index books omit information that is available in the GRO search factility (such as mother's maiden name for births before 1912 and age at death for deaths before 1865).
The index books may contain errors but the FreeBMD transcriptions of the books have generally been done to a high degree of quality and it is possible to post corrections and postems if an error is found or additional clarification is required.
FreeBMD does not yet cover the full period of availability of the GRO index. It is virtually complete up to 1983 and there is partial coverage from 1984-1988.

3. Civil Registration index available at FamilySearch, Findmypast, Ancestry, etc
These are also online transcriptions of the GRO index books.
The quality of transcription is generally not as good as FreeBMD and there is no way to post corrections.
Coverage includes entries up to 2006-2009 depending on the type of record.

When sourcing a profile I always try to find the entry on the GRO web site.
If there is a clear difference between the GRO web site (1) and FreeBMD (2) I cite both.
If I cannot find the entry on the the GRO web site I cite FreeBMD (2).
I only use the indexes at FamilySearch, etc (3) for entries outside the time period covered by GRO and FreeBMD.
 

Comments

So, the moral of the story is: use the OFFICIAL website.  Then, if you ordered the certificate and they said the reference was wrong, they only have themselves to blame because they transcribed it wrong.  

If you said "I got it from xyz website", they could always shrug and say "well, it wasn't from the official website, so we'll keep your money, thanks very much."

---

The GRO only does births and deaths, so for marriages I still use FreeBMD.  I have found - since being able to use FamilySearch once my password issue with them was resolved - that what FS has is no better than the GRO or FreeBMD.  The only way to get better information is to pay for it (which I would do for an immediate relative, but not for a 4th great-grand, or for someone not related at all)..

---

For help with  citation for GRO index take a look at https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Saturday_Sourcing_Sprint_Citation_Examples

---

Both free bmd and the paysites (for those entries not yet indexed by the free project) have images of the original index books so you can check the transcript yourself. They don't always get it right  and indeed some pages are hard to read(I have one family member where freebmd revised their transcription of the index from 6d 401 to 6d 400 and hence changed a man's possible marriage partners. The original transcript was correct )

Answer 2

GRO is one of the most important English Sources, it gives the Mothers Maiden Name back to 1838 though it wasn’t compulsory to register birth until the 1870’s. It is still the current office where you request your own birth certificate etc.

You say would it be useful to Cite? I say yippee! It’s a definite birth not a Census!

Lizzie :-)