Is William Robinson eligible for Southern Pioneers?

+3 votes
Is William Robinson eligible for the Southern Pioneers Project?
WikiTree profile: William Robinson
in Requests for Project Volunteers by David Thomson G2G6 Mach 1 (14.4k points)

2 Answers

+5 votes

Based on the bio, William was born in the Virginia territory that later became the state of Kentucky so he certainly was an early resident.  However, he clearly was not the immigrant ancestor about which we have no information.  We also can not say that he moved with the post revolution westward flow of  settlers to the southern territories since he was born in Kentucky county (1750) prior to the post revolution (after 1776) movement west.

My thought is that his profile would be more appropriately covered by the Kentucky or Virginia projects.   

by David Douglass G2G6 Pilot (118k points)
My understanding of a pioneer is someone who lived in an undeveloped territory prior to that territory becoming a state or a formal government. Whether the person was born there, or born at some other location is irrelevant. It is safe to say that William Robinson had to clear the land, deal with hostile natives, build his own house, and live off the land; all activities engaged in by pioneers.

I mean, he was born in 1750, sixteen years before the Revolutionary War. By your standards, men and women who moved into the area ten years later would be considered pioneers, but William would not. I simply do not see the validity of your logic.

David, my response was an attempt to answer the question you posed which was, "Is William Robinson eligible for Southern Pioneers?"  Were you actually asking whether William Robinson would be considered a pioneer ?  If so, my answer would have been different.   Did I misunderstand the question you were asking ?

Essentially, the Southern Pioneer's Project covers the post colonial period of western expansion  into the territories that were to become the southern states.  Our time frames are roughly 1776-1900. (We include the Oklahoma land rush folks).  Pioneer for our project's purposes is generally thought of as being, " one of the first to settle in a territory " (Merriam-Webster)  Keep in mind however that being a pioneer is not the only criteria that is involved.  It was my thinking that there are other projects that cover the earlier colonial period of US History that may be more appropriate for the William Robinson profile.  However, if you believe it would benefit the overall quality of the profile to be co-managed by the Southern Pioneer's Project we can look at doing so.

Hi David, what is significant about the date of 1776 that the Southern Pioneers project would choose it as a date for defining whether a pioneer is eligible, or not? Is it in the project's thinking that the act of crossing a line after a certain date, and not before that date, is of historical significance?

What if William's father is never rediscovered? Should the family of William Robinson, such as myself, feel that our ancestor was not a pioneer worthy of being tagged by the Southern Pioneer's project because he was born into the territory before it was fashionable to cross the border, which was not even defined then?

Let's say William's father is rediscovered at some future time. I agree that it would be correct to move the Southern Pioneer tag to his father, but until then, William is the oldest known member of the family who was an actual pioneer who settled Kentucky before it became a state. The fact that he was born in what became Kentucky sixteen years before the Revolutionary War should not disqualify him and his family as Southern Pioneers.

Since the Southern Pioneer project is trying to identify all the pioneer families of the named Southern States, then yes, I do believe having William Robinson's profile managed by the project would be appropriate and beneficial to the profile.
Yes, there is a historical significance in the date 1776.  In that year the former British colonies were declared independent and the British colonial period came to a close.   The colonial period is well covered by other WikiTree projects.  So as not to have a great deal of overlap with other WIkiTree projects the project covers the period of westward migration that occurred in the time period after the close of the American colonial period.  That being 1776 and after.   A technical point to be sure but not arbitrary.

In my answer below to Lynette is the guidance (link) set out by WIkiTree for determining whether a profile should be co-managed by a project.  Certainly, William was a early resident of Kentucky as his birth occurred in the territory prior to the American Revolution and it appears that he lived there his entire life.  We will look at co-managing his profile and hope that since you have an interest in the Southern Pioneer's Project that you will join as a member if you have not already done so.

Okay, maybe the name of the project is just poorly chosen. If the project isn't specifically about people who settled the area, but instead it is about Colonial expansion into the defeated British territory and Native American lands, then the project title should reflect that. Otherwise, genealogy researchers, such as myself, might be baffled as to why our ancestors don't qualify as Southern Pioneers even though they were American citizens who settled the area even before the Colonial expansionists entered the area, and after they defeated the British Army. Perhaps we need a pre-pioneer project?

I would like to join Southern Pioneers project, and had already joined several other projects, but I keep coming up against nonsense, such as we are discussing at this time. Unfortunately, reason does not completely rule the projects, but rather the projects operate under often arbitrarily established rules that tend to exclude otherwise legitimate candidates. My personal Wikitree account was blocked for ten days earlier this year over another disagreement, and I don't want a repeat of the under-experienced psychology students trying to manipulate me into accepting the illogical and uninformed views of unqualified project leaders who lack an understanding of early American history (both Native American and European versions). I am not implying that you lack an understanding of history, as you apparently do have a reasonable understanding. I'm just saying that I don't automatically consider joining a Wikitree project as a desirable action.

I am almost afraid to suggest another Southern Pioneer candidate, which would be William Robinson's son-in-law, John Mansker-21. John Mansker was born in Pennsylvania, served in the Revolutionary War, and after surviving St. Clair's Defeat in 1791, removed to Kentucky to visit his uncle Kasper Mansker at Mansker's Station (now Goodlettsville, Tennessee). He met and married William Robinson's daughter in Kentucky, and they had four children in Kentucky before removing to Missouri and Illinois. Is there a time restriction on how long a person must live in the Southern States before moving on in order to be considered a Southern Pioneer according to the project's rules? He did participate as a Captain in the newly formed Second Regiment in 1791, however, instead of heading West, he went South (which is where the South is located relative to Pennsylvania).

I am a direct descendant of eight Illinois pioneers (American citizens who settled the Illinois territory before it became a State) and William Robinson, who is a true Kentucky pioneer (but who apparently was born in the area before the legitimate, or valid, pioneers arrived). There may be other pioneer ancestors I haven't identified yet, but I take great interest and family pride in being a descendant of the pioneers of this country who I have identified. I find it demeaning to have to deal with the people I am encountering on Wikitree, and it is too bad. I have already added over 10,000 profiles to Wikitree, and could have entered a couple thousand more this past Spring and Summer. Instead of further developing Wikitree, I am working on a new website that I have control over to continue and record my pioneer research, and my efforts will continue on my website until Wikitree has worked out its kinks.

Kasper Mansker figures prominently in the early settlement of middle Tennesse,  He and his family would fit within the project for a number of reasons.
+2 votes
OOPps David Douglass beat me.
by Lynette Jester G2G6 Mach 7 (75.1k points)

Lynette. my answer was specific to the Southern Pioneers project but other considerations apply as well that are in common with other WT topical projects.   In order to be a project managed profile the profile should meet the WikiTree criteria for project management. Generally this may mean that the person was historically significant,  that some controversy or disagreement of fact exists,  or perhaps there may be confusion among similarly named individuals.    In regards to SP project guidelines the profile should be about someone that was either themselves a southern pioneer or the direct descendant of a southern pioneer (or pioneering family) .   

WikiTree defines a topical project (Southern Pioneers is a topical project) as being centered around a group of profiles that are connected in a logical or historical way.  Our specific common interest is in the "southern pioneer" and the westward movement of these pioneers after the American Revolution into the territories that became what we know as the southern states.   

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