William Large should be PGM? Featured in Anderson.

Question

Anderson features William Large in Immigrants to New England 1634-35, Vol IV:237-238.

Another issue with this profile if it will be co-managed by PGM: there are descendants attached. Anderson shows rather conclusive circumstantial evidence that William Large had died by 1637 and had no children. If others agree with this, the children would need to be detached.

Comments

T,

I wonder if this profile is actually intended to represent someone else who emigrated to Pennsylvania? New England-to-Pennsylvania migration is exceedingly rare for this era. So perhaps there was a Pennsylvania immigrant with this name who died later and did have children. We should rule that out before making the significant changes you recommend.

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I agree.

Anderson in INE IV:238 regarding the attached son Joseph "of Amesbury and Pennsylvania" states later authors based on Savage 3:56 made errors including Dixon Kith and Kin (1922). That errors appears to be the Joseph attached to this profile but I will see if the correct father of Joseph an be determined in case his name was William.

The other commonly seen erroneous son is a John (of Lyme and Long Island). He is not attached here.

On this profile we have an unsourced Henry attached which I will attempt to research though the only information available is that he might be a brother of the attached Joseph.

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Adding discussion on the attached wife Rebecca Phippen. There are only two known Rebecca Phippens according to Anderson. One is found in INE V:455 who m George Vickery. The other is a maid to Richard Ibrooke of Suffolk in 1638/39 when he is fined for attempting liberties with two maids. Have not found evidence of a Rebecca Phippen married to someone surname Large in Massachusetts or Bucks Co Pennsylvania. Anderson gives the wife of William Large as unknown, simply "widow Large." The attachment of Rebecca Phippen to this William Large appears erroneous.

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Great work, T.S. Thank you!

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Jillaine, here is my summary on this.

This family group as it now appears in WikiTree seems to be a mishmash of many different and erroneous trees found at Ancestry, Find-a-Grave, and elsewhere. The Joseph attached as son is a real person, a Quaker from Amesbury later documented in Pennsylvania. Believed b about 1646 there is no documentation of his parentage and this date is nine years after the death of William Large of Massachusetts.

This familial relationship error is discussed by Anderson and it permeates the work of a number of genealogists and historians, thus the error is pervasive. The death date for Joseph in 1709 in Bucks is the date and location currently found (erroneously) o the profile of William Large (deceased by 1637). There does not appear to be record of another William Large who died 1701 or 1709 in Bucks. In many Ancestry trees the William Large seen as father of Joseph never left England, died 1689, and yet his son was born in Hingham, Mass.  (Will continue next box)

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(Continued). There is currently no evidence of the parentage of Joseph Large however given the pervasive nature of the error that he is the son of William Large and a Rebecca _________ (the name of William's wife appears nowhere in surviving records) it is doubtful that many have been looking for a father other than William Large. That William's wife and Joseph's mother was Rebecca Phippen appears to be simply erroneous and oft repeated. I suppose this stems from 'sources' saying his mother's name was Rebecca and one of the two Rebecca Phippens somehow became his mother.

The attached son Henry is perplexing. He is not the other usual son erroneously attached to William Large. He seems to appear at Find A Grave b 1647 as son of William and brother of Joseph but does not appear elsewhere with great frequency.

Untangling. I think this William Large is meant to be that in Anderson and data could be corrected to match known information. Joseph should, I believe, be disconnected as son. Not sure what to do with Rebecca Phippen but she needs research to see if one of the two actual people known of that name in this period is in WT. Henry?

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Sounds good, T. Please proceed.

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Jillaine or Anne B, can we bring him under PGM as co-manager? This will help prevent reattachment of erroneous parents and children which are in process of being detached as part of profile rework. Thanks.

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Done.

Answer 1

Starting a second thread on this g2g to deal with Rebecca Phippen. To correct earlier notations, the Rebecca Phippen who married George Vickery is the same Rebecca Phippen who was maid to Richard Ibrooke who attempted liberties with her. This Rebecca Phippen is in WikiTree as Phippen-55.

Anderson also discusses a Rebecca Vickery who is daughter of Rebecca Phippen and George Vickery but is believed entirely fictional. INE Vol 5 p 531. This fictional Rebecca Phippen, or an odd version of her, also appears in WikiTree as Phippen-14. Here she is married thrice -- with a date of birth long after William Large is deceased.

That brings us to Rebecca Phippen-102 currently attached as wife of William Large who died by 1637. I do not believe Anderson addresses any additional people named Rebecca Phippen in the Great Migration series or newsletters. No one of this name is found in BMD registers at FMP for Cheshire, England +/- 10 years of 1614.  And searching all-England a candidate of this name as wife of a William Large does not seem to be found.