Help with a 1800s German Marriage Certificate?

Question

I have a copy of my Great Grandmother's marriage certificate from the 1800s that I was hoping to get translated. Is there anyone fluent in German that can help me?

Terri

Clawson-1056

Comments

Can you post a picture on her profile? There are lots of people who could then help.

---

I have posted the document to her image page.

It's amazing how much I've found about this lady but she still is holding information from me!  I want to know who her parents are. I've found Johann Seipp, but everyone was named Johann back then or Anna.

Terri

---

Johann was not their given name! It was their patron saint!!

Use the second name as their given name, such as Johann Peter Schmidt, would really be Peter Schmidt.

Often their middle name would be their mother’s maiden name.

I volunteer at the Pennsylvania German Cultural Heritage Center library at Kutztown (PA) University and find this to be true with a German immigrants. Check the PA German Pioneers books, which were the records at the Philadelphia City Hall, of German immigrants entering into Colonial Pennsylvania.

---

The English often used family names as given names but I have not seen any Germans use last names as given names.

Do you have some examples?

---

Are these Germans in Germany or Germans in Pennsylvania?

Terri

Answer 1

Butzbach, 12th August 1877

Following persons were married:

Day laborer, Johann Philipp Mathes, of Lutheran faith, born July 23 1843 in Werfelden, living in Butzbach, son of farmer Johannes Mathes and his deceased wife, Maria Catherina, born Bausch (pretty sure that is a "B") residents of Werfelden.

and Anna Elisa Seipp, of Lutheran faith, born April 28 1844 in Ober Horgern, living in Butzbach, daughter of carpenter, Johannes Seipp and his wife, Anna Maria, born Breier in Ober Horgern.

Comments

Unfortunately I cannot read those old Hand-writings completely, but here are some corrections:

- birth years are 1853/ 1854 instead of 1843/ 44

(It says „fünfzig“, not „vierzig“.)

- Ober-Hörgern instead of Ober-Horgern (There is an Umlaut in the text.)

Possibly: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ober-Hörgern

- the last name of Anna Maria seems to be wrong since there also is an Umlaut. I cannot tell what would be correct here.

---

Born in Worfelden, not Werfelden. Ober-Hörgern does have a hyphen in it's official name, used to be a separate village until 1971, now a district of Münzenberg. And I read Anna Maria's family name as Bröder.

---

Thank you for your help, everyone!  I just wish that the wedding certificate showed Johannes Seipp's middle name. But beggars can't be choosers, I guess!

Terri

---

Germans don't and didn't have middle names. If a second or third name was given they would have all been regarded as equal with any of them being able to be used as the common name. If the record only uses Johann it may very well mean that there were not many people he could be mixed up with in the village.

---

Johann was used as a prefix, but Johannes was used when that was the full intended name.

---

Wow. Very interesting.  I need to do some research on Ober-Horgern.   I did find Johann's second  name, it is Georg.

My problem is that I come from the US and live in Canada. Our naming customs are different.  I would refer to Johann George's first and middle names. But it seems like Germans have first, second and third names?  What do you call all those names?

Now I know not to call a German ancestors' second name a "middle name."

My husband goes by his middle name.  He's of (English stock.)  it  can get confusing at times.

Terri

---

German speakers have Vornamen (first names) and Nachnamen (last names). In some documents the name they go by is underlined, like Hans Georg if the person used Georg as his common name, and if they used both they would in most cases get hyphenated as Hans-Georg.

---

In the transcripts of the church book entries for my grandmaternal family the common name is written like " 'Susanna' Margretha". So she was known as Susanna. In the documents of my grandpaternal family I have often two or three given names in the birth certificate and have to find out in the later documents which one was the name a person went by.

On a side note: It would be interesting to follow the Seipp-line up the tree. Ober-Hörgern and especially Butzbach is not THAT far away from my family towns and I have Seipp's as cousins.

---

That's interesting, I also have Seip in the ancestors. However, only one P and further south in Hesse. But you never know.

I have a few comments left to the marriage.
The page says December 8th as a wedding anniversary. But the marriage was on the 12th of August. And there is a second page to this document. Marriage documents have 2 pages. The details of the groomsmen:

1. The carpenter master Jacob Marguth II (second), 70 years old, living in Butzbach Weiselerstrasse No. 341.
2. The carpenter Tobias Seipp, 28 years old, living in Ober-Hörgern.

https://www.ancestry.de/sharing/18247404?h=21fa70&utm_campaign=bandido-webparts&utm_source=post-share-modal&utm_medium=share-url

To the German first name as a supplement to Helmut's explanation:
Currently German citizens may have at most 7 first names at the same time and can use them individually. All names are equal. Only for official documents one name is underlined, eg on the identity card or driver's license.
Johannes - Johann - Hans have the same meaning. Often Hans was the nickname of Johannes.