Deacon John Rogers of Weymouth (m Judith) was not son of Mayflower Thomas

+15 votes
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One of the best sources of help in distinguishing the different John Rogers of early Massachusetts is Josiah H. Drummond, The John Rogers families in Plymouth and vicinity. Portland, Me.: unknown, 1895 (available digitally to Ancestry.com subscribers). WikiTree arborists are using this book to guides the clean up the multiple, duplicative, and often conflated profile pages of the various John Rogers of early Massachusetts.

Through analysis of their chronologies and wills and offspring, Drummond concluded that there were three different men, and then made the case for which one was son of Thomas Rogers of the Mayflower.

The three John Rogers frequently confused are:

1. Deacon John Rogers of Weymouth, Suffolk (not Plymouth) County, MA, weaver, b abt 1610 in England, d. 11 February 1661 (Source: Vital Records of Weymouth, MA to the Year 1850 (NEHGS 1910, 3 volumes); Volume 2 , page 334). The names of his parents are not known. He was married about 1636 (not 16 Apr 1639 as claimed on many web sites) to Judith UNKNOWN—some say French; other say King; in either case, no confirmed documentation of her maiden name has been found. His will was dated 8: 12th month 1660 (abt 8 Feb 1661) and inventoried on 20: 12th month 1660 (abt 20 Feb 1661); his estate was proved 30 April 1661. (Source: “Abstracts of Early Wills,” in NEHGS Register 10 (July 1856):265-266, citing Suffolk Probate #264)  His children, as named in his 1661 will were:

a.     John Rogers (abt 1639); single at time of father’s will; likely he who married 8 Jan 1662 Mary Bates (Source: VR of Weymouth, 2:166) and probably the “Elder John Rogers” who died in Weymouth 28 Feb 1710, age 71 (Source: VR of Weymouth, 2:334)

b.     Mary Rogers (abt 1640) m. 24 Nov 1659 (Weymouth VR 2:166) John Raine (deaths not recorded in Weymouth VR).

c.     Lydia Rogers, b 27 Mar 1642 in Weymouth (VR 1:263) m. 19 Sep 1660 (Weymouth VR 2:166) Joseph White (deaths not recorded in Weymouth VR); removed to Mendon by 24 Mar 1664 (Mendon Annals, p 8)

d.     Hannah Rogers (abt 1640) m. 19 Sep 1660 (Weymouth VR 2:166) Samuel Pratt; she d. 16 Oct 1715 (Weymouth VR 2:319)

e.     Sarah Rogers (abt 1655; still single and underage at time of father’s 1661 will)

2. John Rogers of Duxbury, Plymouth, MA. Baptized 6 Apr 1606 Watford, England, son of Mayflower Thomas and Alice (Cosford) Rogers. Arrived in Plymouth by 24 Mar 1632/3 when taxed there. He married 16 Apr 1639 Anna Churchman at Plymouth. With his brother Joseph and others, he had a grant of fifty acres at Marshfield 6 April 1640. As an "ancient freeman" of the colony, he was granted land at Taunton on 3 June 1662. He is call "weaver" in a deed conveying one acre in Duxbury to Wrestling Brewster in 1680. His will dated 26 Aug 1691 was proved 20 Sept 1692, between which dates he died. Children as named in his 1691 will were:

a.     John Rogers, b c 1640; d 28 Jun 1732; m1 Elizabeth Pabodie Nov 1666 in Duxbury; m2 Hannah Hobart 21 Oct 1679 Hingham; m3 Marah Cobham aft 22 Mar 1692/3; d 28 Jun 1732.

b.     Anna/Hannah Rogers b 1640-60; d aft 8 Jun 1704; m John Tisdall Jr. 23 Nov 1664 at Taunton; m2 Thomas Terry btw Mar 1678 and 25 Jan 1683; m3 Samuel Williams btw Oct 1691 and Aug 1697; she d. aft 8 Jun 1704. 

c.     Elizabeth Rogers b bef 1652; d aft 7 Mar 1703; m 17 Nov 1668 at Taunton Nathaniel Williams;

d.     Abigail Rogers; bc 1640; d 1 Aug 1727 at Taunton; m by 1663 John Richmond. 

3.     John Rogers of Marshfield. Initially settled in Scituate as early as 1643; abt 1657 moved to Marshfield. Thought by Savage to be brother of Mayflower Thomas, but this has not been confirmed. In 1649-1653 fined for not attending town meetings. (Of related interest: his son John became a Quaker.) His will was dated 1 Feb 1660/61; proven 5 Jun 1661. He married Frances (NOT Watson) who survived him and m2 Walter Briggs of Scituate. Drummond went on to write, a few years later, a separate publication about the descendants of John Rogers of Marshfield; this is also available on Ancestry.com. Children:

a.     John Rogers, b abt 1632 England, d 7 May 1717; m 8 Oct 1656 Rhoda King, dau of Elder Thomas King of Scituate; she d abt 1662 and he m2 Elizabeth ____ who d. 13 Sept 1691; he m3 Elizabeth ____; she died 9 May 1705. He was a Quaker.

b.     Joseph Rogers, m Abigail Barker of Hingham; he d abt Jun 1716; she d. abt May 1718.

c.     Timothy Rogers, m Eunice Stetson; d 1728 having survived his wife

d.     Ann Rogers (m1 George Russell; m2 John Hudson)

e.     Mary Rogers; may have married about 1666 John Rouse Jr and died by 1675 when he remarried

f.      Abigail Rogers b abt 1645 in Scituate; m 1 Jan 1679 Timothy White, son of Gowin (aka Edwin?) White and Elizabeth Ward; he d in 1704, leaving her surviving.

WikiTree profile: John Rogers
in Policy and Style by Jillaine Smith G2G6 Pilot (692k points)
edited by Jillaine Smith

The following are notes I'm compiling on a 4th John Rogers; I'm not done yet, but it's long after 2am and I'm beat.

There was also:

4. '''John Rogers of Dedham,''' famous preacher. His father ...

 

Source: Henry Waters, "Family of John Rogers of Dedham," in ''NEHGR''' 41(1887):162- who also wrote (referring to Chester, "Memoir of Rev. Nathaniel Rogers," in ''NEHGR'' 5(1851):

"The late Col. Chester, in his memoir of John Rogers the martyr, produced a mass of negative evidence which seemed to refute the wide-spread belief in a descent from that heroic sufferer in the cause of the English Reformation. But all that we actually knew of the family in which so many of our New England people are interested, was what we could gather from the will of Richard, who speaks of his cousin (i.e., nephew) Rogers of Deham, the inscription on his tombstone, the will of John Rogers himself, his epitaph on the north wall of the chancel in Dedham church, and the Candler pedigrees in the Harleian MSS., British Museum, and in the Bodleian Library, Oxford...

"The inscriptioin on the tombstone of Richard Rogers of Wethersfield [England]... shows that he died 21 April, 1618, in the sixt-eight year of his age, and was born therefore about AD 1551. The following is a very concise abstract of his will, which was published in full in the October number of the ''Register'' for 1863 (vol. xvii. p. 326).

"Richard Rogers of Wethersfield, Essex, preacher, 16 April 1618, proved 30 April 1618. Hementions John Clarke, a neighbor at the brook, Samuell Waight, a son in law, Walter Wiltsheir and Jeremy Boozy. To wife Susan... to my son Danyell... to my son Ezekiell... and to my Cosen Rogers of Dedham &c... to my daughter Hasselder's children... to my wife's children... to my sister Mary Duckfield's three daughtesr and her son John... to my kinswoman Mary Smallwood... to cusin Daniel Duckfield... Goodman Parker's daughter, the widow Barnard... Cousin mr. John Wright, esq of Romford, Essex; Susan my wife; Francis Longe my son in law; my brother Cooke; my son Makin...

"An abstract of [the will of John Rogers of Dedham] (also given in full, vol. svii. of ''Register,''' p. 329) is as follows:

John Rogers, minister of God's word in Dedham, 14 October 1636, proved 20 February 1636... to Dorathie my wife... to John Rogers my grandchild, son of my eldes son John Rogers of Colchester, deceased... to his mother my daughter in law... then to my son Nathaniel... then to my son Smuel... to my son Daniel... to my sister Garood... to Sara, Hanna and Marke [children of Garood?]... to my cousin Webb of Colchester... to John her son. To my son Anger's children... to my son Nathaniel's children... to son Samuel's son... to son Daniel's child... to son Peck's children; to my daughter Martha's child...to these poor men, Araham Ham, Robert Ham, John Ham, John Cannon, Simon Cowper, widow French, John Shinglewood, John Weed, Edmund Spinke, William Wood... to my cousin Elizbeth Rogers... to her brother, the sadler, five pounds... to all my children in old England...

:"John Rogers [shoemaker per marriage of his widow] of Mulsham in the parish of Chelmsford in the County of Essex, shoemaker, 10 June, 43 Elizabeth, proved 3 July 1601... to Joan my well beloved wife... to Thomas Rogers my son [not yet with children]... all my other children... my daughter Susan [under 21]... to Nathaniel Rogers, my son... to my daughter the wife of William Gryffyn... to Nathaniel my son the sum of ten pounds of like lawful money, to be paid unto him within two months next after he shall have served the time of his Indenture of apprenticeship by which he now standeth bound for certain years yet to come... to my son John... "

(His widow Joan married 27 Sep 1604 John Hamond of Moulsham. Her will refers to Thomas Rogers as "son in law" (I.e., stepson) indicating she was not his birth mother and there must have been an earlier wife of John Rogers; she was the mother of Susan)

"Thomas Rogers of the hamlet of Mulsham in the County of Essex, shoemaker, 23 May, 1st Charles (I.), proved at Chelmsford 14 Janary 1625.  To Mary my loving wife... my brother John Rogers of Dedham, clerk,... my daughter Mary (under 21)... to my son John (under 21)... executors to e my loving brother John Rogers of Dedham, clerk...

(continued)

"The Church Registers of Chelmsford [England] go back to A.D. 1538 (when parish registers were first ordered to be kept in England). [the author realized he was working from a copy] ... this family were evidently settled here in Chelmsford as early s the first year noted in the Reigster...

1. John Rogers, elder, carpenter, m. Jone who was bur 1540

2. John Rogers, the younger,

3. Richard Rogers bapt 29 June 1551 ["This I hae no doubt was richard Rogers of Wethersfield"]

Baptisms:

  • John, of John Rogers, the younger, 21 Nov 1538
  • Thomas, of John Rogers the younger and Ann, 25 Nov 1540
  • Mary, of John Rogers joiner (?) and Agnes, 11 Feb 1542
    (A John Rogers married Agnes Carter in 1541)
  • John, of John Rogers and Jone, 19 Oct 1545
  • John, of John Rogers and Agnes, 10 Sep 1548
  • Richard, of John Rogers the younger, 29 June, 1551
  • Mary, of John Rogers, the uonger, 30 july 1553
  • Thomas of John Rogers, 29 Oct 1557
  • Ellyn, of John Rogers, 1 Nov 1558.

    Baptisms of the following children of John Rogers, shoemaker (next generation): His will 1601: to my wife; to dau Susan
  • Thomas, 30 Jan 1574; shoemaker, bur 1625), m1 Sarah (bur 1607); m2 Mary who outlived him; children (only first by first wife):
    • Thomas, bp 11 Dec 1605
    • John, bp 18 Oct 1612; peraps died Billerica, MA 25 Jan 1685/6, age 74
    • Nathaniel, bapt 13 Feb 1615; d Moulsham 1616
    • Nathaniel, bp 10 Nov 1618;  1622
    • Mary, bp 20 Jul 1621; mentioned in her father's will.
  • Mary 28 Apr 1576 [likely she sho m 1596 William Griffyn
  • Elizabeth, 21 Jul 1577
  • Richard, 15 Apr 1579
  • Katherine, 29 May 1581 (d 1585)
  • Nathaniel, 14 Dec 1582, schoolmaster; prob died 1619; m 1607 Elizabeth Terret:
    • John bp 5 Jan 1611; prob referred to in his uncle John's will as "the sadler"
    • Elizabeth bp 25 Apr 1614; d Moulsham 1617
    • Elizabeth bp 6 Apr 1618; adopted? by her uncle John who mentioned her in his will, and also by the latter's widow who calls her "my maid Elizabeth Rogers"
  • Ezecias, 23 Nov 1585 (d 1587)
  • Susan, 22 Sep 1588

Those in bold are mentioned in the wills above. Later found baptisms of the children of Thomas (shoemaker; bur 1625), Nathaniel and Richard all of Moulsham. Thomas (b 30 Jan 1574, 

 

1 Answer

+3 votes
Jilliane,

This is excellent.  It seems that if you also put an inquiry in the Mayflower users group, you may get more responses.

I am a descendant of the John who maried Anna Churchman. There is another WikiTree person who is quite knowledable about the Mayflower Rogers.
by Becky Syphers G2G6 Mach 3 (35.1k points)
Becky, per your advice, I have recategorized this in hopes of getting the attention of the Mayflower group but no additional responses yet.  I would like support of others to align the various profiles with the above Drummond findings.  I had started this on my own and at least in the case of the above linked profile, my efforts were reversed by its manager. I understand the concern.  The changes remove descendants of deacon John Rogers of Weymouth from the list of Mayflower descendants.  This was a disappointment I dealt with when working on my husband's line. He's descended from Lydia Rogers, dau of Weymouth John.

What do you suggest as next steps?  Thanks.  

Jillaine

This is the URL for the Mayflower WikiTree group.

http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/9466/deacon-john-rogers-weymouth-judith-not-son-mayflower-thomas?show=9601#a9601

I found I get good results from this group.

Becky that link takes me right back to this page.  Please advise.  Jillaine
There are people who look at the Mayflower group, but apparently do not use G2G yet. The point of putting the URL in the Mayflower group was to get your post in G2G more amswers.
Sorry, Becky. I was a bit slow this morning.  I thought you were posting a URL for me to access the Mayflower group. I am not on the Mayflower group  (I do not research Mayflower descendants), which I understand uses Yahoo Group or Google Group? Could someone on it, please post that URL? Thanks!

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