Bartholomew Fleming (1591 - 1624) unsourced filiation

Question

I've just started to work on the descendancy of Herman Thorn, and just received a message from one of his descendants, pointing that the current path linking him to Henry VIII via James Stewart is faulty at Bartholomew Fleming, of whom, says he, parents are unknown. 

The filiation of Bartholomew has been added by 2012, but is not sourced, the profile is twice flagged as unsourced.

But my correspondent has another path to propose, he writes :

We do however have a direct and legitimate descent from King Robert III of Scotland who died in 1406, through yet another Livingston family, via the Duncanson ancestry of Herman Thorn’s grandmother, Catarina (Van Eps) Van Slyck.

I will ask him further details, but if someone knowing this branch could care, it would be great. 

Comments

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/613417/new-gateway-ancestors-the-duncanson-sisters-new-netherland

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Thanks RJ! In fact I had just received today from my correspondent a document with the details of the lineages discussed in the thread you mention, and what he sent me is perfectly conformant with what we have in WikiTree.

The problem is that the faulty path from Herman Thorn (and his descendants) to Henri VIII via Bartholomew Fleming is shorter than the correct ones, and is therefore the one which is proposed by the algorithm.

So, the problem now is more to get rid of the wrong lineage than to add the correct ones, which are already there.

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Thanks Bernard, for pointing this out.

If I understand correctly, there is a case for disconnecting Bartholomew Fleming from his WikiTree parents.

I notice with some concern that some of Bartholomew's immediate descendants are not adequately sourced either.

Answer 1

This has been up for three weeks now and there have been no objections, so I'm going forward and disconnecting Bartholomew's unsourced parents.

Comments

Thanks Isabelle! We'll see tomorrow how Herman Thorn is reconnected to Henri VIII. Hopefully no more dubious link.

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I've just come across a source that (at least) suggests that Bartholomew's father was a Thomas Fleming, merchant in Edinburgh:

Roll of Edinburgh Burgesses and Guild Brethren 1406-1700; Scottish Record Society; Edinburgh; 1929; page 184 at https://archive.org/stream/scottishrecordso46scotuoft#page/n193/mode/2up :

Fleming, Bartilmo, B. and G., mt. (corslet), as second s. to Thomas F., mt., B. and G. 15 July 1612

 

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That's great, Sheena. Could you change your comment to an answer to re-start the discussion? Do you think the disconnected father (there is really very little information on the profile) could be correct after all?

I am sorry I cannot personnally help in the research, and the person who posted has scaled down his participation so I doubt he will be able to get back to his correspondent.

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That's a shame about the original poster.

Added my comment as a new answer.

I think Bartholomew's father was a Thomas Fleming, but whether it's the disconnected father I don't know at the moment.

Answer 2

[Converting previous comment to answer]

I've just come across a source that (at least) suggests that Bartholomew's father was a Thomas Fleming, merchant in Edinburgh:

Roll of Edinburgh Burgesses and Guild Brethren 1406-1700; Scottish Record Society; Edinburgh; 1929; page 184 at https://archive.org/stream/scottishrecordso46scotuoft#page/n193/mode/2up :

Fleming, Bartilmo, B. and G., mt. (corslet), as second s. to Thomas F., mt., B. and G. 15 July 1612

 

Comments

Just come across some more clues about Bartholomew's family in his son-in-law's (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Livingston-49) autobiography:

A brief historical relation of the life of Mr John Livingstone; Glasgow, 1754; at Google Books https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=m1vAmgEACAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

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Copy of my research notes from the profile:

*Bartholomew Fleeming is described in his son-in-law (Rev John Livingston's) autobiography as

''Bartholomew Fleeming, Merchant in Edinburgh, of most worthy memory, whose brothers John Fleeming Merchant in Edinburgh, and Mr James Fleeming Minister at the Bathings''(A Brief Historical Relation, of the Life of Mr. John Livingston; John Livingston; 1727; page 16; https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=m1vAmgEACAAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s )

*The Roll of Edinburgh Burgesses and Guild Brethren 1406-1700; Scottish Record Society; Edinburgh; 1929; page 184 at https://archive.org/stream/scottishrecordso46scotuoft#page/n193/mode/2up does have :

Fleming, Bartilmo, B. and G., mt. (corslet), as second s. to Thomas F., mt., B. and G. 15 July 1612

Fleming, Johne, B. and G., mt. (corslet), as eldest s to Thomas F., mt., B. and G. 24 Apr 1611

*''Fast Ecclesiae Scoticanae''; Vol 1; page 399 (https://archive.org/details/fastiecclesiaesc01hews/page/398/mode/2up page 399) for Yester, East Lothian [formerly St Bathans] describes James Fleming as:

born 1590, son of Bartholomew F., merchant, Edinburgh;

[edited for formatting]