Need clarification for Mahaut d'Albon (Albon-1) and Amadaeus III (Savoie-252) Count of Savoy

+2 votes
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There is an issue with the family of Amadeus III Ct Savoy (1092 Carignano Piedmont Turin Italy - 1 Apr 1148 Nicosia Cyprus).

Attempting to determine the mother of Mafalda (Savoie-399), a daughter of Amadeus III, the date of her birth (1125) conflicts with the marriage date of 1134 identified in the biography. On the other hand, the marriage date of 1120 indicated in the data section would indicate that Mahaut/Mathilda, born in 1112, was only about 12 or 13 years old at the time of Mafalda's birth.

Could someone please work on these profiles and provide sources indicating how the dates are determined and to provide credibility. Was Mahaut a child bride? Perhaps Amadeus was previously married?

Because this is my ancestry, and also because I am working on a history project involving Amadeus and the Crusades, I would very much appreciate some expert development of these profiles.

I would like to extend a hearty thank-you to whoever works on this project!
WikiTree profile: Mahaut d'Albon
in Genealogy Help by Ramona Pekarek G2G3 (3.3k points)
edited by Ramona Pekarek

Some marriages among the royalty were at very young ages, but were consummated years later.

Wikipedia has an article on child brides of historical significance. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_child_brides

Wikipedia claims nine children for Mahaut. Are they all her children, are some the children of Adelaide, or is there some error in this list? What documentation do we have for these children regarding their parents? Should any of them be added to the profile of Amadeus III (Savoie-252)?

Mahaut of Albon (1112–1148), was a Countess Consort of Savoy; married in 1123 to Amadeus III, Count of Savoy.

Issue:

Mafalda (1125–1158), married king Afonso I of Portugal

Agnes of Savoy (1125–1172), married William I, Count of Geneva

Humbert III (1136–1188)

John of Savoy

Peter of Savoy

William of Savoy

Margaret of Savoy (died 1157)

Isabella of Savoy

Juliana of Savoy (died 1194), abbess of St. André-le-Haut

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahaut_of_Albon
Wikipedia claims the following family list involving two wives for Count Amadeus III of Savoy:

With his first wife Adelaide, he had;

Adelaide married Humbert III of Beaujeu

In 1123 he married Matilda of Albon, daughter of Guigues III of Albon, they had:

Matilda (1125–1158), married king Afonso I of Portugal

Agnes (1125–1172), married William I, Count of Geneva

Humbert III (1135–1188)

John

Peter

William

Margaret (died 1157), founded and joined nunnery Bons in Bugey

Isabella

Juliana (died 1194), abbess of St. André-le-Haut

Source:

Previte-Orton, C.W. (1912). The Early History of the House of Savoy: 1000-1233. Cambridge University Press.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadeus_III,_Count_of_Savoy

Could someone -- or perhaps a team of experts -- please locate and examine the records, then evaluate these various accounts in order to revise the WikiTree profiles for Amadeus and his wives and children. I will be following the progress and delight in each contribution!
There is still need for someone to edit the profile of Mahaut "Mathilda" d'Albon (Albon-1) to explain the conflicting marriage dates, also to provide and explain the difficulties in the sources. Here are the conflicting statements:

Wife of Amadeus (Savoie) de Savoie — married 1120 in Chambery, Savoie, France

Mahaut of Albon (1112–1148), was a Countess Consort of Savoy; married in 1134 to Amadeus III, Count of Savoy.

1 Answer

+6 votes

Unfortunately Ramona, I'm not sure there is a definitive answer.  It all comes down to a charter dated 27 July 1134 where Amadeus III's wife is named as Countess Adelaide. see here top of page 98.  Though this source thinks the date is incorrect and it should be 27 July 1133 (see note 3 on p. 284)

For those who accept this is correct, then Adelaide (of uncertain parentage) is his first wife, and his daughters, Alix who married Humbert III of Beaujeu, and possibly Mafalda who married Afonso of Portugal are her children.

Adelaide must have died soon after that date and the marriage to Mahaut/Mathilde d'Albon taken place about 1135 as another charter dated in 1137 names his son and heir Humbert and presumably there is a source that correctly names Mahaut as his mother?

However there are those who think the the name Adelaide in the charter is a mistake (and I get the impression this is the only charter that names her as his wife, but I could be wrong about that) and Mahaut was his only wife in which case she must have married and had children very young.  Not unusual for this time period.

Most of the easily accessible sources (such as Wikipedia and Charles Cawley's Medieval Lands,) aren't much help as they often rely on each other or Europaische Stammtafeln, which is OK as a source for general information but not much good for this kind of in depth investigation.

by John Atkinson G2G6 Pilot (486k points)
So, this Latin document identifies Amadeus III's wife as Adelaide in July of 1134, but the other source argues that the dating must be for 1133. There is some assurance that the document is an original.

Do you think, then, that Amadeus was married to Alice/Adelaide up to about 1133/34, and then married Mathilda/Mahaut? If so, is there a record for the latter marriage? Do you think this Latin source is sufficient to revise the profiles to identify the children whose birth years are up to 1133/34 as Adelaide's?

I have posted the relevant section from the Latin document in the images section for Amadeus' profile (Savoie-252), and I am so grateful to you for directing me to these two helpful sources and for your commentary.

I hope someone will identify more sources and revise the profile for him. Probably more information in more sources are needed to determine the birth years and the mother(s) of Amadeus' children. Is it possible there are more children not recorded yet in WikiTree?

Amadeus III, Count of Savoy, had a sister named Adelaide. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humbert_II,_Count_of_Savoy

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