What is the proper way to use the Find A Grave link in a reference to multiple

Question

I need clarification on the use of the {{FindAGrave|###}}

  I often have multiple references to Find A Grave (Birth, Death and maybe Research notes).  

1) If it is used as above, it seems as though it would have to be added each time.

In most cases I would use the name= reference to refer the source to several locations in the profile.

2) <ref name="Find A Grave"> {{FindAGrave|###}} </ref>

3) My preference would be <ref name="Find A Grave> {{FindAGrave|###}} and additional info from the FaG source guide and information like HEADSTONE with Dates</ref>

Comments

Does your option #2 work?  If it does, I would use that.

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Using the template in an inline citation doesn't seem to create a link in the citation list: see citation #28 on Herbert's profile: no link, no text.

Using a direct link - (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/163970205) or (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/163970205/herbert-baldwin-cushing) - to the Findagrave memorial would work better.

edit: striking some text, as that was not the actual problem! Doh! There goes my entire comment!!

Seriously though, the direct link is just fine in the citation. The template is more of a backup plan, in my opinion. And there is no reason you/we can't use both of them in the citation!!

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That is why I asked the question.  I had it with the full citation (name=) and it worked fine on #28.  A helpful person removed that and added the {{FindAGrave|###}} and #28  no longer works.  That is what prompted my question.

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It looks to me like the reason no. 28 isn't working is that all you have is the <ref name="xxx" /> without the original <ref name="xxx"> xxxxx</ref>.; i.e. you're not repeating a source.

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Yes, I see now what happened. Your first Findagrave citation was removed and replaced by just the template  - in other words, the initial Findagrave citation is no longer an inline citation since the citation tags/codes were removed. That rendered your repeat citation invalid, as Julie notes.

Your original citation, or at least the citation coding, should be restored. I believe your original citation is a properly formatted citation, as per WikiTree guidelines/accepted usage.

As a courtesy, you may also want to send a private message to the member who made the edit to let him/her know what inadvertent error he/she made.

Bottom line - you were correct!

Answer 1

Hi Cherry,

As I believe that you are suggesting, it's a good idea to abstract the information from the FindAGrave (or any other) source on a profile. I generally do that in a Research Notes section, but I've seen others include it in the bio or Sources section.

But in any case, the FindAGrave external link template, like any other external link template, is not a source citation. It's just a link to a web page on the FindAGrave web site. You can (and in my opinion, should) include the FindAGrave external link template as part of your FindAGrave source citation. If you click on the View Source link on a FindAGrave memorial, you can copy the FindAGrave-provided source citation and paste it into a profile. You can then replace the provided link with the external link template in that source citation.

You can name that source, so that you can reuse it in multiple locations within the profile. Here's an example of a profile that I sourced today that does that.

Comments

But Rick, what does that really add?

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Hi Julie,

Not sure to what you're referring?

When you abstract a source, you add the pertinent details from the source. This is beneficial for any source that's not online, for online sources for which the link will eventually fail to work, and for sources behind a paywall (either currently, or those that may become such in the future).

In the example that I provided, there's actually an obituary transcription embedded in the FindAGrave memorial. I don't currently have access to the original newspaper obit that's cited there (or I would have cited it directly), but I've included the newspaper name and date in the abstract of the FindAGrave memorial, so that anyone that wants to review the supposed original source can seek it out if desired.

The FindAGrave View Source link gives you the actual citation to include in the profile, which in addition to the memorial number, includes among other things, the information about the web site, the cemetery/location and the maintainer of the memorial.

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That is what I had always done until one of my profiles was corrected by removing the complete source and link and adding just the template.  Then of course the reference link didn't show.  I thought I had missed something.  I had always used the direct link until I saw the template and started substituting it for the direct link.  It seems to work for me to get to the image on my computer.  

See Estudillo-1  Maybe it doesn't work if it hasn't been opened on the computer earlier.

I'll probably just go back to what I was doing and add the whole direct link.

Thanks for the input.

Cherry

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Rick - Sorry, you're right.  I saw the long version of the FAG source, and not the abstract.  I agree the abstract adds value.  Your overall format is different from what I usually do, and I admit (not that it isn't obvious!) that I didn't read the whole profile.

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Hi Cherry,

The FindAGrave external link template in the source citation on Estudillo-1 appears to me to work just fine.

I'd still recommend using the FindAGrave external link template in your source citations vs including the hard-coded URL. If the FindAGrave web/URL link structure ever changes, causing the existing links to fail, Jamie and/or the WikiTree tech staff may be able to update the external link template to reflect the new link structure, which may then fix all of the failing links that utilize the template vs manually changing each entry that doesn't use the template. Hope that makes sense.

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If the structure changed, the memorial number would probably still be visible, wouldn't it?  So people could still find the memorial, if not as elegantly?

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Hi Julie,

Yes, if the memorial number is present, you should be able to find a way to get to the memorial. But many viewers won't pursue trying to troubleshoot a dead link. If the URL structure changes, it's likely that the memorial number would still be a part of the new URL. If that's the case, then WikiTree tech folks may be able to update the external link template which may fix all the links that are utilizing the template.

Also re: your earlier comment, I believe that regardless of where it ends up in a profile, I agree that a source abstract adds value and believe that it is important to include.

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As Ales has explained, the purpose of using the Find A Grave template is so that the Source citation now has a direct link to the Find A Grave page, which the citation from their page does not do.  It is recommended to copy the 'source citation' from the Find A Grave page, then remove the www.findagrave.com url at the beginning of that citation since that is a generic url, then either change the Memorial ID area in the citation to use the Template or add the template at the beginning or end of the citation.

As Ales had stated, the purpose of the template is so that if the url is changed at Find a Grave site, as happened recently, the template will be changed and it will continue to work on all profiles, instead of all the profiles in wikitree needing to be changed.  

The full citation from Find A Grave is much more beneficial, similar to retrieving the entire citation from Family Search, instead of just a url, because it will have the date it was accessed, the cemetery name, location, if they exist on the page, as well as the name, birth and death dates found on the page at the time that the citation was retrieved.

Answer 2

If you mean "Repeated_use_of_the_same_source_in_the_same_profile, "then you should use <ref name="Find A Grave"/> for each additional reference to the previously referenced Findagrave memorial. As others have mentioned, you should include the full citation from Findagrave, either in your inline citation or in the See also: section under the Sources heading.

If you mean "Repeated_use_of_the_same_source_in_different_profiles, " then you will need to use the {{FindAGrave|###|sameas=no}} template on profiles that are for an individual other than the person in the referenced Findagrave memorial.

edit: added link to Findagrave/sameas=no template usage guide