Choice of Category name

+1 vote
The category «Native american» was removed to her as she was reported born in «Kebec, Canada, Nouvelle-France».

To my knowledge, Canada is part of America - just like the United States of America. America spreads from the North to the South pôles.

If born in the then area of «New England», perhaps this category should be named as such or plainly named «Native born in the USA» when bondaries are known?

WikiTree profile: Ouéou Manitouabéouich
in Policy and Style by Gaston Tardif G2G6 Mach 1 (13.3k points)
retagged by Jillaine Smith

on utilise la catégorie la plus restreinte Gaston, c'est-à-dire Algonquin, Huron, Abénaki......  pas la catégorie-mère de tout ce truc.

Comme on n'a pas de preuves de lieu de naissance ni décès présentement sur le profil, je suggère de changer les lieux pour territoire Algonquin, Amérique du Nord plutôt que Kébec.

2 Answers

+4 votes
The category in question relates to the Native Americans project, but you are right in a sense, Gaston.  She is of first nations origin (Canadian term) but from what I can tell, there's no agreement as to her place of birth.

It is important to note that the Abenaki people lived in a territory that covered parts of modern-day southern Quebec, New Brunswick, and Maine.  It is entirely likely she was born on the American side of the 'border' we have today, as the Abenaki did not migrate north of the 'border' until about 1669.  Without a source for her place of birth, it's a matter of conjecture.

I also noticed that she is stated to be of Algonquin origin and is placed in the Algonquin category.  I would have to disagree, as the Abenaki were of the 'language group Algonquian' but not part of the Algonquin Nation.

Hope that provides a bit of insight into the issue.
by Amy Gilpin G2G6 Pilot (131k points)
The Abenaki are one of several peoples who lived on both sides of what is now the US-Canada border. The requirements that they must be categorized as either US "Native Americans" or Canadian "First Nations" is an annoyance. I ran into this issue when , who was an important figure in the history of what's now Massachusetts (and probably never lived in what's now Canada), was categorized as Canadian.

I think they belong in both of those categories (and they are!).

My point is not to know whether or not she is Abenaki, it is to question the wording of the category with the choice of «Native American» for poeple from United States of America. It sounds as if Canada was not part of America. 

«Native Canadians» or First Nations and US Natives were both born in America. 

United States and Canada: both in America. 

Like Ellen I see this kerfuffle as rather annoying.  My grandmother's family lived in what now is southern Manitoba OR  Northern North Dakota.  The family was there before the border was decided.  My grandmother had to emigrate, even though her father was born in North Dakota, and I find it ironic that that land was where they roamed for thousands of years before the whites who would divide it up and now still want to argue about which side one belongs on ever set foot on it.
There's no such word as Unitedstatesian, so we say American instead.

If we want to include Canada, we say North American.

For the whole of the Americas, the best we can do is use New World as an adjective.  Biologists talk about New World monkeys.

This is English usage.  It isn't necessarily logical.  Other languages can vary.

In French, we easealy say «Étatsuniens» when refering to Unitedstatesians. It has the quality to be precise and specific, in respect of each country within the land called America. Historically, both Canada and United States have been known as part of it, pricisely as North America. To be more precise, I am Canadian, not North American. 

And coming back to the «category name» choice: Since it was so uncertain on which side of the border that they lived or died as they were free spirits travelling constantly and within uncertain borders, why not group them under «Category North American» «Sub Category Native Abenaki tribe»?

If WikiTree keeps being the most exiting genealogical site that I see, it has to be precise and respectful of the reality worldwide. Usage of the correct wording is essential.

Personally, I think your suggestion makes a lot of sense, Gaston.  I'm not part of this project, but I would support that categorization.

Edited to add: When translating from one language to another, we need to remember that Etatsuniens translates literally to Unitedstatesians, but in common usage, it means Americans.
Wikitree didn't invent this terminology. The indigenous peoples of Canada call themselves First Nations. The indigenous peoples of the United States prefer the term Native Americans.
+10 votes

That was probably me who removed the Native Americans category.  A few things (and please know that these decisions pre-dated my involvement in the NA project):

  1. WikiTree's Native Americans project covers profiles of individuals who lived in what is now the United States.
  2. WIkitree's First Peoples Canada project covers profiles of people who lived in what is now Canada.
  3. The Native Americans category (managed by the NA project) is becoming a high-level category that we seek not to associate with profiles of specific individuals; instead, we seek to categorize them more specifically, preferably by tribe or nation if we know it. 
  4. The {{Native American}} project box and sticker is a template managed by the NA project; a tribe may be designated as follows (remove spaces before and after the vertical pipe character): 
    1. If it needs project co-management protection: {{Native American | tribe=Abenaki}} . 
    2. If it doesn't need project co-mgt/protection (and place below the == Biography == header) : {{Native American Sticker | tribe=Abenaki}} 
    3. (I have requested that the template be updated to include the "nation" as well since many groups of Native Americans identify as a nation, not as a tribe.
If you manage / research a profile that falls on both sides of the current US/Canadian border, you may use the NA template; just be sure to include the tribe/nation name.  And include something in the narrative that indicates the location.
I removed the NA template/category only from profiles that appeared to only involve Canada. My apologies for any that I removed in error.
-- Jillaine, co-leader, WikiTree Native Americans Project
by Jillaine Smith G2G6 Pilot (782k points)

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