Anybody want to break a few STONE walls or get rid of a few NOBODY's in an exciting family tree look here [closed]

–10 votes
507 views
Waiting til the 29th for pre-1700 cert so if anyone like i worked on my grover ( my dads dad) side almost done with everyone upto 1700. I beleive Elisabeth (Lane) Grover  gave me problems finding her parents. Deborah Temple.  Also Have problem with Maurice Grover having 2 dads.  Has him in ny and vermont. Alonzo b Grover 1920 federal census has Maurice birthdate only one yr apart from Vermont Maurice with william isaac . Morris and Maurice is used both for alonzo b grover and william isaac. I just believe rutland vermont is a real person and the one in NY is his NOBODY (From a LIVING person that makes profiles of non real people. Almost like using UCC 1 Financing for Creditor(Real Person)/Debtor(NOBODY)[Strawman].
closed with the note: Topic has gone off track.
in Genealogy Help by Anonymous Grover G2G Crew (400 points)
closed by SJ Baty
I took a brief look at your tree. The sourcing is in need of improvement.
Lol ur worried if my info is correct. It is all correct up to now. Any ques can be answered easily without adding 1 million sources to my tree. Any profiles after 1700 im providing FAG sources. I already did my research until 1700 u can challenge anyone on my tree. Ill show u proof. Im not here to be nit picked if im right on profiles after 1700 that i spent months on. Im here to share my ACCURATE info with FAG sources for profiles after 1700 that I have done extensive research to make sure it TRUE KNOWLEDGE. Anything before 1700 or with lil knowledge that I have I will add Full Sources. Im not here to damage tree with bearing false witness but TRUE facts.  but im on a PS4 with no copy paste sry if i provide FAG source for my profiles after 1700. Any ques about a profile plz ask. This Thread was for ppl helping not nit pickers or power abusers.

Of course, when you signed the Honor Code you *did* agree to add sources:

We cite sources. Without sources we can't objectively resolve conflicting information.

I think what George is saying is that the sources you currently have could do with some expanding, so we can resolve any issues objectively.

My issues arent souce its finding next parents. No issue with CURRENT accuracy. Just moving forward to find past parents. The post obviously says help with brick wall... Nothing about my sources worried about wrong things.  PLEASE READ POST CAREFULLY.  Thx for comments.  If i put a million sources on here nothing would make sense. When 1900 1910 and 1920 United States Federal Census say different name on all Census's but are of the same person.
Also how would you source David Clifford and David Kingham.  https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/166504124/person/142163316544/facts   I would put David Clifford nd David Kingham as 1 person with 2 last names. Kingham is a NOBODY.  But which one is the birth last name?  I would say Clifford would make sense to put.  Also look at Elizabeth Isham...  Hahaha
Does the family list in each of those census match? Does location stay the same? Without location and a link, we have to do a search again and maybe we will find different one than you find. Looking at later census sometimes finds a parent living with them. Looking at census images, sometimes you find family near them on same page.
I gave your tree a glance, Garrett.  I think it's a good start.  One of the things I learned here early on is to dig deep and find my happy place; nothing works as well or as fast as we would like.  Persistence, patience, and working to help out are all great virtues to cultivate for Wikitree.

Another thing I learned - the hard, hard, way - is that the quality of each of your profiles is far, far, far and away more important than quantity.  Take your time.  Make sure your sources and circumstantial cases are well thought out and clear (this helps you AND others.)  Adding things like siblings, uncles, aunts and cousins EARLIER rather than later can really, really help break through your brick walls!!! Kind of like running an "end-around" in American football (you know, jumping over the wall instead of breaking through it.)  Good luck!
Garrett, you asked a question above about David Clifford and David Kingham.  You provided a link to your Ancestry tree which I looked at.  It is to the profile of Mary Elizabeth Mudget or Mudgett.  According to her Ancestry profile, she married David Clifford in New Hampshire in December 1798, and had a son David Clifford who was born in Ireland in 1798.  Does it not occur to you that you might have connected two unrelated people?

Next you show Mary marrying an unnamed person and having a son David Kingham who was baptized in England in 1842.  His mother was named Mary Elizabeth Kingham.  Why would you think it was Mary Elizabeth Mudget?  Why would you imagine that the two Davids, born 44 years apart, are the same person?

Before you go on putting new profiles on WikiTree, I really suggest you do a thorough review of your Ancestry tree.
U dont understand or cant perceive reality accurately besides looking at paper. There are billions of fake identities.. Like u should change mudget spouse bc this paper says this.._     https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=5241&h=904497&tid=166504124&pid=142163316544&usePUB=true&_phsrc=rhz2243&_phstart=successSource
Garrett, you have to understand that people will link profiles to family trees, but that doesn't mean they are linked correctly.  That is the reason why wikitree says that sources, preferably primary sources, like birth, marriage, death records, are used to prove dates, locations, and relationships.  

I don't use ancestry so I can't personally see any of the links that you are showing.  There are some sources on ancestry and family search that are made up of indexes from user created family trees.  Those type of things are not valid sources unless you can find the initial sources that are used to form the relationships, other than an ancestry hint created by other people's family trees.

Try looking for sources on family search which has free access to everyone with no subscription.  

You said there are fake identities.  I doubt there are many people that someone created on a tree just to make them up.  What's the purpose of doing that, but there are a lot or incorrect relationships because the wrong people were connected. That is why you may think they are fake identities.  If you look at the actual sources and use the information on the sources, you aren't going to have fake identities.
Yes Mam if u read the Georgia Guidestones and think how the creator will knock out 7 billion ppl and u see  4 different names (Identities) used for 1 LIVING PERSON. Every different name variation on Federal Census and Vital Dept, Baptisms is a new identity but for only 1 living person.  It not hard to think about and see. And have knowledge wisdom understanding about things in the "Age of Reasoning." They hit them the hardest in 1940s  before computers would take over.  And the Earth is flat NO CAP

Linda, as usual I am in complete agreement with your comment. Thank you for expressing your thoughts so well and so diplomatically, which is why I do not answer as many posts. I have not learned diplomacy yet. wink

Missy smiley

4 Answers

+30 votes

Garrett, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I think you are going to have to adjust your attitude to being part of a shared tree.  You can't just say "Im not here to be nit picked if im right on profiles after 1700 that i spent months on. Im here to share my ACCURATE info..."

Many other people share your relatives.  We need reliable sources, or how else are we ever to agree on conflicting information?

by Julie Kelts G2G6 Pilot (314k points)
+23 votes

" I just believe rutland vermont is a real person and the one in NY is his NOBODY (From a LIVING person that makes profiles of non real people."

This sounds like you think there is only one possible person with a certain name.  There are plenty of people in the same area with the same name, as well as people in different areas with the same name.  I am sure that there is a person in Rutland, VT and in NY with the same name IF you are seeing Primary Sources.   FAG is not considered a Primary source unless there is a gravestone attached.  Even then, it is not always considered that.  As stated by others, wikitree wants Primary sources so 'others' looking at the profile and using it for their own research know that the sources are correct and so everyone can look at the sources themselves.  Without sources being stated, the information could be coming from family trees and just written down from family stories which is not always accurate.  

Sources have varying spellings in census, as well as other things because people didn't care about spelling, so there are plenty of varieties, but usually the varieties are close when 'sounded out.  By looking at sources, there are usually other family members that are used to verify that you are looking at the same family.

by Linda Peterson G2G6 Pilot (425k points)
+23 votes

Garrett,

Please be sure to read about the requirements for pre-1700 sources. We take it very seriously. You'll want to be sure to provide reliable sources for everything you put on early profiles:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Pre-1700_Profiles

by Bobbie Hall G2G6 Pilot (175k points)
Understood def. will do that
+6 votes

Garrett, It is taking me a long time to bring my Ancestry tree over. I opted to not upload a Gedcom and instead input each person individually. My Ancestry tree is currently at 14,256 people (All are NOT on WikiTree yet.) with almost double the number of sources. (I do not believe unsourced Ancestry trees should be considered a source.)  My process is that when I add each person, I include primary and/or secondary Ancestry sources when I am unable to find the primary or secondary source on FamilySearch.org or other free websites, like Swedish parish records from RiksArkivet (Where to get free Swedish primary sources.). So yes, I am researching each person (more than) twice, but I have found a couple major discrepancies in my tree that needed correcting after transferring my tree from Ancestry to WT. If I do not have any primary or secondary sources to add to a profile, I do not add the person until one is found. 

I hope this helps! Good luck with all your research! 

Missy smiley

by Missy Berryann G2G6 Mach 8 (87.8k points)
reshown by Missy Berryann

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