First Wife and Son of Richard de Percy (Magna Carta Baron) [closed]

Question

I have been working on the profile of Richard de Percy, d. 1244, one of the Magna Carta Surety Barons.

His first wife is shown as Joan Alice Braose, who has an unsourced empty bio from 2 GEDCOM imports. The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography and Medlands (entry for Joscelin de Louvain child 2) both state that Richard de Percy's first wife was called Alice but that her family origins are unknown. Does anyone have any evidence that Richard's first wife was a member of the Braose family? If not, I suggest I detach Joan Alice Braose.

Richard de Percy is also shown as having a son Henry by his second marriage to Joan Alice Braose. Both the ODNB and Medlands indicate that Henry was almost certainly illegitimate, mother unknown: it was Richard's nephew William who was his heir, even though Henry was still alive in 1267, 13 years after Richard's death; and I J Sanders also states in his English Baronies that nephew William inherited Richard's lands. Unless anyone has evidence for who Henry's mother was, I propose to amend his profile to give him no known mother and say he was almost certainly illegitimate.

I would do my usual research notes on relevant profiles.

Comments

Just to add that the original DNB says Richard de Percy's first wife was a sister of William Brewer: but this has been dropped from Richard's entry in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, which states categorically that she was "of unknown parentage", and Medlands also leaves her family origins blank. I do not think we can place any reliance on the old DNB.

Answer 1

DNB is probably thinking of this one

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Briwere-5

She was a sister of William Brewer, but she didn't marry Richard, she married his nephew & heir William de Percy.

Comments

Thanks RJ!

Answer 2

Before 1800, any profile with two given names is a red flag, and I would certainly count "Joan Alice" in that.  Rather than detaching Joan Alice and leaving her to cause problems for future people trying to clean up WikiTree, I would suggest that you rename her Alice Unknown, consistent with ODNB.

RJ's research adds credibility to the thought that someone took the real Alice unknown and conflated her with Joan Briwere to produce Joan Alice. There's already a Joan Briwere, so renaming Joan Alice into Alice Unknown would finish undoing the conflation, and you'd end up with a profile for Alice which actually has a credible source!.

Answer 3

Many thanks for the replies. I have now detached Henry from his previously-shown mother, detached Richard de Percy's first wife from her previously shown parents, and made her LNAB Unknown. Darlene Athley Hill had already changed her first name to just Alice - thank you! I have added some research notes to profiles.