How to enter a Find A Grave source?

Question

I have watched the video:

Data Doctors, Suggestion 571, Find A Grave - Link without Grave ID

The video starts off by showing this format:

{{FindAGrave|123456|sameas=yes}}

However....

The first and second “should be” examples show spaces before and after the vertical bar.

Question 1:  Is a space to be put before and after the vertical bar or not?

Next, I noticed that the “sameas” flag is sometimes used and sometimes not.

Question 2: Is the “sameas” flag supposed to be used in every source?

Lastly, I noticed that in the last example of the video, spaces were put before and after the vertical bar, but the preview example showed no space between the # and the memorial number.  When I tried this on a profile putting spaces before and after the vertical bar, my preview showed a space between the # and the memorial number.

Question 3: Is the “Wiki” source standard supposed to have a space between the # and the memorial number or not?

Comments

Great question. Particularly the bit about the 'same as'. I didn't know that was an option! Thanks for asking, Tommy.

Answer 1

Question 1: No spaces before or after the vertical bar

Question 2: Use the "sameas" flags when you have more than one Find A Grave memorial referenced on the same profile. Use "sameas=yes" for the FAG for the person profiled, use "sameas=no" if the FAG refers to someone other than the person being profiled.  Use the "sameas=no" if the only FAG you have on the page is one which is not for the profiled person. You CAN use "sameas=yes" when the only FAG is for the person being profied, but it is absolutely not necessary. (In fact, I have been removing the "sameas=yes" from my own profiles as I encounter them.)

Question 3: Again, no space.

Here's an example not using "sameas":  

Copy the citation at the bottom of the FAG page (click on the blue words which say "Source citation" to reveal the citation) Paste that citation. Delete the "https://www.findagrave.com :" Put {{ before the word "Find." Remove the space between "Find" and "A." Remove the space between "A" and "Grave." Type a vertical bar immediately after the word "Grave." Delete the words "Memorial no." including the spaces before and after those words. After the memorial number type }}. 

The citation from FAG...

Find A Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 15 February 2020), memorial page for Tracy Kyle Everett (24 Apr 1894–12 Feb 1973), Find A Grave Memorial no. 137423178, citing Galatia Presbyterian Church, Fayetteville, Cumberland County, North Carolina, USA ; Maintained by NEVER EVER FORGET...... (contributor 48403481) .

...ends up looking like this in edit mode...

Find A Grave, database and images (accessed 14 July 2019), memorial page for Tracy Kyle Everett (24 Apr 1894–12 Feb 1973), {{FindAGrave|137423178}}, citing Galatia Presbyterian Church, Fayetteville, Cumberland County, North Carolina, USA ; Maintained by NEVER EVER FORGET...... (contributor 48403481) .

...and looks like this in the finished biography's sources list:

Find A Grave, database and images (accessed 14 July 2019), memorial page for Tracy Kyle Everett (24 Apr 1894–12 Feb 1973), Find A Grave: Memorial #137423178, citing Galatia Presbyterian Church, Fayetteville, Cumberland County, North Carolina, USA ; Maintained by NEVER EVER FORGET...... (contributor 48403481) .

It may seem a little complicated, but after you do it a few times, it becomes second nature, and provides a complete and correct citation for the FAG memorial.

Comments

I have seen plenty of pages that are now maintained by other people.  I have had pages transferred to me and the original person is on the citation, as well as the new person.  Sometimes it is Find a Grave, I assume, because the original person was not responding.

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Barry, I do see your point. I've just been working on a Find A Grave source citation and, you are right, the original creator of that memorial is not included in the source citation Find A Grave provided. I suppose if one wants to go above and beyond the source citation provided by Find A Grave, modified to fit WikiTree specs, one could add the creator when that person is different than the current "maintainer." (And I think I will.) It's on this profile if you wish to critique.

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The sameas flag pretty well is to avoid the "suggestions" regarding wrong person in the profile.

I use the entire citation from FaG - inside the <ref>'s and usually name it "fg" so I can use it in the profiles as an additional reference.(example: <ref name=fg>(FaG Citation)</ref>

The FaG creator is important since some of them ARE Wikitree people and others are recognized by their family as Genealogists - it speaks to the validity of the entry.

rsl

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Thanks, Roy, for agreeing that the Find A Grave creator/contributor should be credited.

Thanks, also, for bringing up the use of <ref name=???> when the source citation is used multiple times within a profile biography. My practice is similar to yours.

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Why would you credit the photographer, Barry, and not the page creator?  It makes little sense to me.  The photographer took a photo while walking through a cemetery; the maintainer researched many documents to create the memorial page.  If you are giving credit to authors, give credit also to the maintainers.

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You can't know what the maintainer did. A lot of maintainers just had a memorial transfered to them and do nothing. Others just enter some vital information, sometimes unsourced and incorrect. Some maintainers do a lot of research and then put it up. There's no way to know.

But like I said above, I pretty much never use FindAGrave for anything other than the photo of the gravestone. I always source my vital information, etc. elsewhere. When I add the <ref> tags, it is right after stating where the person is buried only -- not for any other information. So I make sure to get the photographer in the citation, but the "maintainer" doesn't answer any of the five questions for the gravestone photograph citation: who, what, when, where is, or, where in.

But that said, I realize from this back-and-forth that some people might take my citation and use the link for other information, and so I should include the maintainer, creator, and photographer all in the citation. It *is* important to mention the memorial creator, and right now, neither the creator of the memorial nor the photographer appears in the citation that the FindAGrave website provides -- only the current maintainer, who is often a third person.

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Barry, I have seen Find a Grave pages that have the initial Creator, as well as who is currently maintaining it.

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Linda: you have seen pages have both listed in the copy-and-paste citation at the bottom of the page? Can you give a link to an example?

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I was looking for a profile that had both mentioned and I can't find one.  I don't know if both are in the citation, if that is what you meant.  I have seen both mentioned on the page.

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This has all been about the citations. The standard FindAGrave copy-and-paste citation lists only the maintainer of the memorial, and not the creator nor the gravestone photographer (if they are different from the maintainer). IMO they are as important as the maintainer and so should be included when citing FindAGrave.

Answer 2

Tommy, here's how I do it. While in the edit mode, and writing the info in the biography, I go to the F.A.G. page and copy the URL. I then go back to the biography and where I want to put the F.A.G. info, I click the C Button 'Cite Your Source'. and then I paste the URL in between the <ref>  </ref> brackets. Use the preview button to make sure it looks correct before saving your changes. You may feel free to look at any of the profiles I manage to see an example. This will make the F.A.G. link an in-line citation. it looks like this: <ref>Find A Grave Index https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/50205893</ref> If this is not how you want to do it, I'm sure someone will help you with another way to do it. Hope this helps a little!

Answer 3

There is no space before or after the vertical bar. It is recommended to copy/paste the whole citation, as shown in the video, then change the Find A Grave memorial 123456 to {{FindAGrave|123456}} I don't use the sameas=yes as shown in the video.  I then remove  the link to Find A Grave homepage (as also shown in the video). 

Answer 4

Tommy, the other answers so far are good.

An example of when to use sameas=no is when, for instance, a woman is listed on her husband's grave stone and does not have a separate FAG memorial of her own.

Edit:  For the use of sameas=yes see Linda Peterson's comments above and below.  Thanks, Linda!

Comments

If the Find a Grave page is for the profile person and the date or location doesn't match, you will get a Suggestion if the sameas is not defined, as well as if it is defined with 'yes'.

They are ignored when the sameas is set to 'no' because you are telling the system it is a different person.

If the dates or location don't match because the sourcing on the wikitree profile is more accurate, then the Suggestion can be set to False Suggestion.  I also recommend sending a correction to Find a Grave with the correct date / location, as well as sending the URL or citation for the source you are recommending to be changed.

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Linda, I wish I could give you an "up vote" for your reply here. You explained so very well.

Answer 5

What I usually do when I have a Find A Grave memorial that corroborates the information I already have looks like this in my first paragraph:

Dock Holland Harris was born May 3, 1876, the son of [[Harris-5122|Jeter Harris]] and [[Padgett-1243|Sletter Padgett Harris]]<ref name="FAG">{{FindAGrave|48058700}}</ref>.

Then my last paragraph giving death and burial details looks like this:

Dock died 17 November 1918 in Elza, near Reidsville, Tattnall County, Georgia and was buried in [https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2141693/cedar-grove-methodist-church-cemetery Cedar Grove Methodist Church Cemetery], Tattnall County, Georgia, USA <ref name="FAG"/>.

I copy the citation at the bottom of the Find A Grave memorial page and paste it into my bibliography section, then I will put three single quotes around the person's name so it will show up as bold and two single quotes around the page name so it will be italicized.

There are probably as many ways to do this as there are people here, but this is mine and I like how my biographies look when I get all the formatting just so. ;-)

Comments

Debi, I like your suggestion to bold the name of the person memorialized on FAG. I looked at one of your profiles and I agree, it does look very nice. Though your formatting style is a little more complex (to me) than what I do, it definitely accomplishes the mission of providing complete source citations.

Answer 6

The FAG template {{FindAGrave|#######}} is all that I use as it is all that needed -- it provides a direct link to the memorial where all the other information can be seen. There is no reason why we need to record on WT profiles the extraneous information contained on the FAG site, especially the name of the person handling the memorial.

Comments

I know many people use this method. If the link changes, what information would be there to locate the moved memorial? The name of the cemetery would be helpful, at least.

I am a Find A Grave contributor as well as a WikiTree member. I believe if someone cites one of the memorials/photographs I contributed, I should be credited. Your shortcut citation does not give credit to a fellow researcher. Is your standard the same for other sources? That is, do you not include the names of fellow researchers in other citations or do you just do this for Find A Grave?

Answer 7

Question 1 -- WIkitree ignores the space before and after the vertical bar.

Question 2 -- "sameas=yes" is optional; the assumption is that the # matches the name on the profile. "sameas=no" is used to reference another persons memorial that might have information relevant to the WT profile on which it appears.