any williams with middle name oliff married to a drury or Ives

Question

trying to continue my Williams line

my grandfather Harry married an Ives(annie) his middle name was oliff, as was brother Arthur and as was his father George or Harry also known by born 1897, who wed a drury(ruth), his father was also George, mother eliza stutchfield, they do not seem to be wed as the date for his birth 1897 she was wed to a James Oliff but i have birth cert  showing George williams as father and census showing Eliza as williams and son with her in 1911, Eliza even down as williams on census, so assume some hows ya father going on lol and for George who wed to Ruth Drury, their wed cert has Eliza down as a witness, she signed it as Eliza jane oliff Williams, his half sister through Eliza first marriage to Thomas Abernethy, is also a witness down as Kathleen Lewis (her married name) so i know these are the correct people. so going back further i am a little stuck. i have got to George and Eliza,  Georges father Thomas Henry 1832 wed to Eliza Hitchcock, his father Robert 1785 wed to Harriot West, his father who is John 1748 wed to a Sarah Childs, his father possibly William Williams 1714....they are all from London areas. stuck getting back further. Hope all this has made sense?

Comments

No, it's very unclear, but I'll look for you anyway. When asking a question there's a field to add a profile id where you should have put something like Williams-62563. The system automatically creates a link https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Williams-62563 You should also have said these people are English and tagged it ENGLAND.

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ok great thank you, still trying to work this site out so thanks for tips

Answer 1

Checked at familysearch.org for marriages of Oliff williams to Ms Ives or Drury but I used no time-frame to filter the results since you mention dates 1714 to 1900's 

Worth your time to go to www.familysearch.org and begin searching the records to find citations 

1-20 of 950 Results for Name: oliff williams Birthplace: england Spouse name: Ives Country: England Record Type: Marriage

1-20 of 915 Results for Name: oliff williams Birthplace: england Spouse name: drury Country: England Record Type: Marriage

 

Answer 2

This is very peculiar... I know you already know this but just to clarify things for myself and anyone else who wants to look at this conundrum...

Eliza Jane Stuchfield was certainly born in 1861 to Sarah (nee Gunn) and Charles Stuchfield as you know.

She married Thomas Grimes Abernethy in 1884 and they had two children: Kathleen Louise Abernethy (later Lewis) b. 1886 and Francis Walter Abernethy 1890-1894.

Thomas died in 1892 in Chelsea aged 40 and in 1894 Eliza married James Oliff (who was 52 to her 32). They are found in the 1901 census with Kathleen (now 14) with no other children. James Oliff died in 1907 aged 67 (actually 65) and Eliza died in 1923 aged 61 (recorded as Eliza J Oliff).

Now you are maintaining that while Eliza was married to James she was actually popping out Harry and George Williams. My first thought was that you'd simply identified the wrong mother but the births are recorded with a mother's maiden of Stuchfield and Harry at least is recorded with a middle name of Oliffe (Q1 1898 Wandsworth) for anyone who wants to check it. So now I'm baffled as to what was going on here.

Comments

Harry is her son with George, I have the birth cert which verified his parents, also Eliza is on her sons wedding cert to Ruth Drury as Eliza Jane Oliff Williams and also her daughter Kathleen, as witnesses, Kath is down as Lewis as she is married by then. The marrage of George(harry) and Ruth was in 1918 23rd March. Like you say i do believe my great grandfather was illegitimate and there was some hows ya father's going on lol. the other thing is around the time of Georges birth the records show his father from what i can fab out living with a sarah Ann Shaw and children? i cannot make out if it is the right George but all seems to tie up with him, so if right he was also married  at the time of my great grandfather George(harry) birth. least one thing i spose he acknowledged his son by being on his birth cert.

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i have uploaded the birth cert for George(harry) showing Eliza and George as parents and his wed cert to Ruth showing Eiza and kath as witnesses

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Thanks for that. I can't see any other possible interpretation. I've encountered men having secret bigamous families before but never a wife! Presumably James Oliff was OK with this, given that Eliza's still with him in 1901. The middle name Oliff (wrongly Oliffe on the birth certificate) is presumably acknowledgement of his acceptance of the situation.

Giving false information to the registrar is quite serious and very rare in my experience but it didn't seem to bother Eliza. Of course your chances of getting away with it were extremely good in those days.

Harry's also claiming to be 21 on his marriage record when he was only 20. There'd be no legal reason to lie since his mother was a witness so could give her approval in any case. Perhaps it was because Ruth was also lying about being 21... Your ancestors don't seem to have been very truthful when dealing with the authorities!