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Lewis John MP (abt. 1380 - 1442)

Sir Lewis John MP
Born about in Carmarthenshire, Walesmap [uncertain]
Son of [uncertain] and
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of — married Dec 1413 in Essex, Englandmap [uncertain]
Husband of — married about 1433 in Essex, Englandmap [uncertain]
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 62 [location unknown]
Problems/Questions Profile managers: Darlene Athey-Hill private message [send private message] and Michael Lewis private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 17 Nov 2013
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Contents

Biography

Lewis John, also known as Lodowick John, or John fitz Lewis, was a successful Welshman in city of London with Lancastrian connections. He became an MP, and eventually a soldier and knight. His family became part of the landed gentry of southeast England during the period of the War of the Roses. Their main manor was West Horndon (sometimes "Thorndon") in Essex.

John/Lodowick married at least twice. Remarkably, both his father-in-laws were earls. As explained by Elliot, "Sir Lewes John, in his Will, makes provision for the following children : Lewes, Henry, John, Philip, Edmond, Margaret, Elizabeth, Alice, and another Margaret."[1] According to Elliot these were as follows:

  • Alice de Vere, daughter of Aubrey de Vere, 10th Earl of Oxford. She had:
    • Lewes fitz Lewis, or Lewis John, had roughly the same wide variation of names as his father.
    • Henry fitz Lewes
    • Philip fitz Lewes
  • Anne, widow of Sir Richard Hankford, and daughter of John Montacute, 3rd Earl of Salisbury.
    • Elizabeth, the wife of Sir John Wingfield.
    • Margaret, who married William Lucy, and a member of the Wake family.

Lewis John was made a Freeman of London before 1401.[2] He was knighted in May 1439.

Lewis John died 27th October 1442, perhaps while overseas, leaving property in Essex, Hertford, Somerset and Dorset.[1][3]

Research notes

Parentage

The old 1936 HOP 1439-1509 edition describes him as son and heir of Richard Fitz-Lewis, by Elizabeth le Ba (p.503). The 1993 article online describes him as a son of John, apparently based on interpreting his name as a patronymic.[3]

A 28 Sep 2003 posting by Chris Pitt Lewis on SGM explains that Lewis John's parentage is unknown, but there are interesting conflicting clues. [4] - We can ignore the statement in the History of Parliament, apparently deriving from Morant's History of Essex, that he was son of a Richard FitzLewis and Elizabeth le Ba. This is part of a fictitious pedigree of the Mordaunt family, deriving him from an illegitimate son of the Dauphin Louis who invaded England in 1216.

In 1414 he had to petition Parliament for exemption from the penal laws which prevented Welshmen acquiring land in England. His petition says that he was a freeman of London and that both his parents had been Welsh (Rot Parl iv 44, quoted by Carr, BBCS). In the 1420s he received a number of testimonials from various officials in South west Wales, such as the Mayors of Carmarthen Pembroke and Cardigan, to counter allegations that he was not of free birth. The Mayor of Carmarthen said that he was "a gentleman of our country"; the Abbot of Whitland said that he was descended from the ancient lords of Wales (also quoted by Carr). These statements may of course be exaggerations, but it is possible that a careful search of Bartram's pedigrees might turn up something.
The other evidence is a pair of entries on the Patent Rolls (CPR 1401-5 p.69 and 1405-8 p.131) referring to Lewis John "administrator of the goods of Stephen John, citizen and vintner of London, who died intestate". Following this clue, I found the Will of Stephen John, citizen and vintner of London, dated 13 Oct 1393, proved in the Archdeaconry of London in 1394 (Register 1 fo.8 - Guildhall MS 9051/1). It names his son Lewis ("Lodewyco filio meo") and wife Julian. He appoints as executors John Marchal Esquire ("armiger") and Hugh Shore vintner. He was to be buried in St Mary Woolnoth.
It is not at all clear whether this Stephen is the same as the one mentioned in the patent roll entry, and if it is, whether his son Lewis is the Lewis John we are concerned with. It is not impossible to reconcile this with the statements about Lewis' Welsh parentage (Stephen could have come from Wales to London with an infant son). Nor is it unlikely that a Welsh family would wobble between an hereditary surname ("John") and a patronym ("(Fitz)Lewis") for a generation or two at this period. Lewis John's eldest son did precisely this. But it is worrying that we have a reference to Lewis John "goldsmith" in 1412 (CCR Henry IV vol 4 p 340) as well as the references to vintners, and more research is needed to be sure that we are not dealing with several different individuals of the same name in the years before 1413.

Note the normal abbreviations:

CPR = Calendar of the Patent rolls
CCR = Calendar of the Close Rolls
CFR = Calendar of the Fine Rolls

John Lewis Esquire, as he was known at the time, fought at Agincourt.[5]


Spouses and Children

Sir Lewis is sometimes said to have had another wife, Elizabeth Neville, daughter of Robert Neville. She is not mentioned in his will. As pointed out by Elliot, accounts of this wife seem confused. She would be the grandniece of one of the known wives, Alice Monacute, who was the real mother of the daughter attributed to her.[1]

From a 1 Oct 2003 posting of Brad Verity on SGM:[6]: The HOP 1993 article on Sir Lewis John says: "Another son, Henry FitzLewis, married the youngest daughter of Edmund Beaufort, duke of Somerset, thus continuing his father's long association with the Beauforts. John's widow [Anne de Montagu] married John Holand, duke of Exeter. By the time of her death in 1457 the only children of her marriage to the Welshman left alive were Elizabeth, wife of Sir John Wingfield, and Margaret, wife of Sir William Lucy." The article doesn't state which wife of Sir Lewis John was the mother of Sir Henry FitzLewis, but if he was alive after 1457, then it had to have been Alice de Vere who was his mother. Conversely, if Anne de Montagu was his mother, then we know Sir Henry was dead, and his daughter Mary FitzLewis, Countess of Rivers, was born, prior to 1457."


Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 Rev. H.L. Elliot (1898) "Fitz Lewes, of West Horndon, and the brasses at Ingrave" Transactions of the Essex Archaeological Society vol.4 New Series. https://archive.org/details/transactionsess04socigoog/page/n63
  2. Rotulae Parliamentariae 1414, pp. 44/5
  3. 3.0 3.1 HoP 1993 article.
  4. 28 Sep 2003 posting by Chris Pitt Lewis on SGM "MORDAUNT and FITZLEWIS - CP error?", https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/vgmn9SnRlow/m/gPNfU41PaqUJ
  5. https://www.medievalsoldier.org/about/agincourt-600/the-english-army-in-1415/english-army-table/
  6. 1 Oct 2003 posting of Brad Verity on SGM "MORDAUNT and FITZLEWIS - CP error?", https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/vgmn9SnRlow/m/9a31T9dwr_AJ

See also:

  • Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. III. page 198.
  • Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. IV, page 121.


Other websites:





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Comments: 12

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Seems to need merging with the father?
posted on FitzLewis-7 (merged) by Andrew Lancaster
I've proposed the merge. I don't have time to research right now. Which parents and wife/wives go with him?
posted on FitzLewis-7 (merged) by Darlene (Athey) Athey-Hill
I think he is just the father, with all the same connections.
posted on FitzLewis-7 (merged) by Andrew Lancaster
Andrew, what do you think we should have as the LNAB?
posted on FitzLewis-7 (merged) by Darlene (Athey) Athey-Hill
I think as per the father's article
posted on FitzLewis-7 (merged) by Andrew Lancaster
The son John appears to be a duplicate of this one, his father. Merge? The son named Lewis was the heir and was sometimes perhaps also called John.
posted by Andrew Lancaster
We have something wrong indeed. I notice that the PCC will of the son Richard states clearly that Richard's grandfather was named Sir Lowys John.
posted by Andrew Lancaster
The very first line of the History of Parliament bio, and its first footnote, both say this man's father was named John. That is to say, this man's name in Welsh format (but using English name-words) would have been Lewis ap John. In the Norman style we'd call that Lewis FitzJohn.

Note his son is Lewis FitzLewis, and that he was *known* to be the son of "Lewis Fitz John." That is to son, his son's paternal grandfather was named John. Not Stephen.

This seems irrefutable proof we are wrong to treat John as a fixed family LNAB here. Of course that did happen in some cases (e.g. Tudor) but apparently not this one.

We ought to use the Welsh or Noman patronymic conventions ("use their conventions not ours") rather than drop both the ap AND fitz (when in reality people like this used both in different contexts) as we give our readers the apparently false father (the notional Stephen John). The patronymic contradicts our connected relationships.

If this man's father were actually a Stephen John, then this man's name would have been Lewis ap Stephen or Lewis FitzStephen. It wasn't. So, that's evidence we have the wrong father connected and/or are labelling the right father with the wrong names.

posted by Isaac Taylor
edited by Isaac Taylor
This Welsh man's given name is apparently Lewis. Not Lewes-- a town in Sussex.
posted by Isaac Taylor
Visitations disagrees about who this person is and where he came from:

https://archive.org/details/visitationsofsuf00harvuoft/page/80/mode/2up

"Sir John FitzLewes" not a certain Lewis John, son of certain Stephen John. What EXACTLY does Richardson say about this man Lewis John, and what are his underlying sources? He's been wrong before. Of course, so have visiting heralds etc.

Can we perhaps agree the History of Parliament is definitive?

http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/john-lewis-1442

posted by Isaac Taylor
edited by Isaac Taylor
FitzLewis-7 and John-748 do not represent the same person because: These are father and son, not the same person.
posted by Michael Lewis

J  >  John  >  Lewis John MP

Categories: Battle of Agincourt