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Raoul (Ivry) d'Ivry (abt. 945 - aft. 1011)

Raoul (Ralph) "Comte d'Ivry" d'Ivry formerly Ivry
Born about in Ivry, Cote d'Or, Bourgogne, Francemap
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died after after about age 66 in Normandiemap
Problems/Questions
Profile last modified | Created 12 Sep 2010
This page has been accessed 14,087 times.
The Birth Date is a rough estimate. See the text for details.

Biography

"RAOUL d'Ivry ([942/50]-after 1011). Guillaume of Jumièges records that “Richardus dux primus” consulted “Rodulfo comite suo equidem uterino fratre” about his succession before he died[226]. It is assumed that he was born after the death of Comte Guillaume I, but it is unlikely that he was born much later than 945 if it is correct that the birth of his older half-brother Richard can be dated to [1032] (see the document NORMANDY DUKES). Comte [de Bayeux]. [m firstly ALBREDA, daughter of --- (-murdered ----). Orderic Vitalis records that “Albereda uxor Radulfi Bajocensis comitis” built “arcem de Ibreio” [Ivry] which “Hugo Bajocensis episcopus frater Johannis Rotomagensis archiepiscopi” defended “contra duces Normannorum multo tempore”, adding that it was reported that “præfata matrona” beheaded “Lanfredum architectum” after the castle was finished so that he could not build a similar structure for anyone else, and tried to expel her husband who killed her[227]. It is not certain that “Albereda” in Orderic’s passage was the same person as “Eremburgam” in Guillaume de Jumièges. It is curious that Orderic does not state in his text that Hugues Bishop of Bayeux and Jean Archbishop of Rouen were the children of “Albereda”: the omission would best be explained if they were born from another marriage of Raoul and “Eremburgam” their mother was a different person from “Albereda”. If this speculation is correct, the chronology of the children of Raoul suggests that they were born later in his life, presumably from a second marriage if he did marry twice, in which case Albreda would have been his first wife.] m [secondly] [as her first husband,] EREMBURGE [de Caville/Cacheville], daughter of ---. Guillaume of Jumièges records that “Rodulphum” married “Erembergam...natam in quadam villa Calcini territorii...Cavilla” and that they had “duos filios Hugonem postea episcopum Baiocensem et Ioannem Abricatensem...”[228]. Comte Raoul & his [second] wife had four children.' [1]

Raoul (Radulfus), comte d'Ivry (actuellement: Ivry-la-Bataille, dans l'Eure, en Normandie). Raoul d'Ivry, Raoul de Vaudreuil (fils d'Asperleng de Pîtres, fermier de Vaudreuil.

Sources

  1. https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/normabc.htm#EsperlengPitresMSprota




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Comments: 7

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Hello profile manager(s) and readers:

Our current birthplace is strictly wrong. This man built the stone castle at Ivry-la-Bataille and is the half-brother of eponymous Normandie family via connected Sprota. So, he's from Normandy not Burgundy. This doesn't even need sourcing frankly as it's historically self-evident given where & when the Normans were when Sprota became wife in "Danish tradition."

This is a garble with Ivry-en-Montagne, Côte-d'Or, on the far side of France:

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Ivry-la-Bataille,+27540,+France/Ivry-en-Montagne,+21340+Val-Mont,+France/@47.9778333,-1.4832251,6z/

Unrelated to this profile or the Normandie family, 400km away, Ivry-en-Montagne in this era presumably fell under Dijon & Chalons (it's in-between and the same family had both) so ruled by one of these folks:

posted by Isaac Taylor
edited by Isaac Taylor
An inscription on two stone tables discovered on August 21 , 1889during the restoration of the chapel on the north aisle of the cathedral of Rouen dedicated to Saint Nicolas reports the burial site of Raoul, who died on October 6 , "pierced with several wounds made by the hands of thieves, by treason". Father Sauvage, following Guillaume de Jumièges and Dudon de Saint-Quentin rejected Rollon's hypothesis. Doctor Lerefait recognized Raoul there, but this suggestion can only remain a hypothesis 15

https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Raoul_d%27Ivry&oldid=131732125

Vaudreuil-4 and Ivry-1 appear to represent the same person because: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/normabc.htm#EsperlengPitresMSprota
posted by [Living Horace]
Here are a couple non -primary sources for this poor fellow:

"Le patrimoine d'Hugues de Bayeux (c 1011-1049)" by Veronique Gazeau IN Les Eveques Normands du XI siecle, Pierre Bouet et Francois Neveux (eds), Presses Universitaires de Caen, Caen, France (1995) pps 139-147 [Hugh is his youngest child by his first wife, Eremburga de Canville]

Searle, Eleanor Predatory Kinship and the Creation of Norman Power, 840-1066, University of California Press, Berkeley (1988) pps 108, 292

NOTE: the usage of d'Ivry (or any other territory, for that matter) did not come into general usage until about 1040. Before that, the title of Comte (or count) was used, but no "of anything"

posted on Vaudreuil-4 (merged) by Karolyn (Tomlinson) Fredette
Last sentence is a great sub-comment that opens a can of worms.

Do we have a rule of thumb or project-level name policy for transitional era* Norman LNABs?

I understand it's super complicated.

  • Meaning between the "Viking" conquests of Normandy circa 911 and England circa 1066. Given at the same time the actual extended family group (say any two randomly-selected cousins) may literally be living/working anywhere in the triangle between Reykjavik, Moscow, and Constantinople, and speaking (or trying to) in 10+ languages in 20+ countries, all of which are in flux (the languages and the national borders, so naming traditions and culture, religion etc) in this exact period.
posted by Isaac Taylor
edited by Isaac Taylor
De Bayeaux-8 and Vaudreuil-4 appear to represent the same person because: Please merge this isolated, unsourced Ralph de Bayeux.

There are other duplicates of Ralph/Ranulph/Raoul de Bayeux around, but they have serious data problems

posted on Vaudreuil-4 (merged) by Isabelle (Rassinot) Martin
Dear Isabelle, I realize you wrote this comment ~5 years ago. Following up here, as this family group has many living ancestors globally so it's probably going to continue to have edit & connection problems over time.

I'm not sure those are "duplicates" or perhaps just fictitious people synthetized to make the various Malahulc/Rollo era fake pedigrees work. See the Disproven/Disconnected section on, I think it's Malahulc (still connected here as grandfather). I think we should be brutal in ending lines rather than tolerating un-sourced connections. Because, I fear, the more we merge profiles scattered around WikiTree (many just parroting gibberish inherited via GEDs from less diligenct researchers on other sites ie Geni etc) we perpetuate synthetic history or just fake people.

FMG evidences this man existed. But we have a WikiTree-level dispute about his LNAB (and his father's LNAB). See via link above:

1. ESPERLENG de Pîtres, son of --- . m SPROTA, daughter of --- . From Brittany. Sprota was previously the concubine or wife of Guillaume I Comte [de Normandie]. Guillaume of Jumièges records that “Richardus I filius Willelmi Longæspatæ...mater eius Sprota” and “Asperlengi” and that they had “filium Rodulphum...et filias plures”[361]. Esperling & his wife had [four or more] children:

posted by Isaac Taylor

I  >  Ivry  |  D  >  d'Ivry  >  Raoul (Ivry) d'Ivry

Categories: Estimated Birth Date