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Hubert (Vaux) de Vaux (abt. 1102 - aft. 1167)

Hubert de Vaux formerly Vaux
Born about in Irthington, Cumberland, Englandmap [uncertain]
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died after after about age 65 in Irthington, Cumberland, Englandmap
Problems/Questions
Profile last modified | Created 7 Jul 2011
This page has been accessed 15,796 times.

Contents

Biography

This profile is about Hubert de Vaux (Vallibus) who was given the barony of Gilsland by King Henry II, in 1158. This Hubert is generally equated to the one who appeared in important charters of this period including those of Henry II, his mother Empress Maud, and Earl Baldwin.[1]

Before then, his origins are unclear. He may have come from France during that time, but he is often assumed to be a relative of the Vaux family of Norfolk who had been in England already in 1086 for Domesday Book. Ferguson writes:[2]

...in 1086 a Robert de Vallibus held Pentney, in Norfolk, under Roger le Bigod,+ and there founded a Priory of Black Canons, and dedicated it to St. Mary Magdalene. His son Robert de Vallibus made a grant to the Priory of Castleacre in Norfolk, of a mill and meadows in Pentney. In that grant he mentions his brothers Robert Pinguis, Gilbert, and Hubert

From this it is proposed, for example by R.S. Ferguson, and accepted for example by S.H. Lee Washington, that Hubert of Gilsland simply is Hubert the brother of the second Robert.[3] The chronology of this proposal seems difficult. It would mean that Robert de Vaux, alive in 1086, must have been quite young in 1086, and Hubert must have been a young son born when he was older?

What's more, although Lee Washington defers to Ferguson's account he also notes that the medieval evidence indicates something else:

In 1246 Maud, daughter and heiress of the last Hubert de Vaux of Gilsland, claimed Aitard de Vaux as her “ancestor” (Assize Roll, Norfolk and Suffolk, no. 818, m. 19 d.); but he was presumably only a collateral progenitor, since the direct descent was unquestionably from his brother, Robert de Vaux of Pentney (see R. S. Ferguson, “The Barony of Gilsland and its Owners,”...
Incidentally, it is interesting to observe that the Vauxes of Gilsland continued to maintain their East Anglian associations, despite their acquisition of a Cumbrian barony; since Hubert II de Vaux (died 1234) was in possession of Surlingham, co. Norfolk, and Denham, co. Suffolk, both of which had belonged to Aitard de Vaux in 1086 (Assize Roll, Norfolk and Suffolk, no. 818, m. 19 d.).

Aitard de Vaux appears in Domesday Book and it has been suggested, for example by Keats-Rohan, that he was a younger brother of his contemporary and neighbour Robert de Vaux. Keats-Rohan suggests that the father of Aitard and Robert might have been William de Partenai.[4]

Cumberland

At the time of Domesday Book (1086), the future county of Cumberland was a part of Scotland. In 1092, King William II of England invaded the Carlisle district and settled it with colonists. He created Earldom of Carlisle and granted the territory to Ranulf de Meschin who divided the territory into eleven baronies. However in 1135, the area was reclaimed for Scotland by King David I who consolidated his position while England was involved in civil war during the reign of King Stephen. The area was returned to English control in 1157 by Henry II who divided the area into two Earldoms, Carliol and Westmorland. By 1177 Carliol had become known as Cumberland. [5]

Irthington and Gilsland

Ranulf de Meschin was granted the area now called Cumberland by the King and divided it into eleven Baronies, that of Gilsland or Irthington was granted to Hubert de Vaux. It is not clear when this happened or which king had made the grant. See the Research Note below for more details of this. [6] [7]

He was married to Graecia whose second name we don't know [8] Their son Robert was born in about 1120, and their son Ranulph was born in about 1140. Their daughter Beatrice (de Vaux) de Briwere was born in about 1145. She settled in Devonshire, and this may explain where Hubert lived when Cumberland was under Scottish control.

I can find no mention of or source for Eustace mentioned on this profile. Eustace is discussed in the Lee Washington book.

Note

The name Vaux or de Vaux, and sometimes de Vals, comes from the Norman French for valleys. There are many places named like this. De Vallibus is a medieval Latin version of the name.

Research Note

As mentioned above, the timing of the grant of Cumberland to Ranulph de Meschin is not clear. Dugdale says Cumberland was granted to him by William I [6]. This seems unlikely as Cumberland was part of Scotland during his reign. The historians cited in the Wikipedia entry on Cumberland, mentioned above, stated that the grant was made by William II. An earlier version of this profile suggested that the grant was made by King David I of Scotland. This area needs further research, but it can be accepted that Hubert was the Baron of Gilsland or Irthington from about 1158.

Sources

  1. Complete Peerage, vol. 9, p. 397.
  2. Ferguson, (1880) "The Barony of Gilsland and its Owners to the end of the Sixteenth Century",Transactions of the Cumberland and Westmorland Antiquarian and Archaeological Society. Series: 1, Volume 4.' [data-set]. York: Archaeology Data Service [distributor] pdf
  3. Lee Washington, The early history of the Stricklands of Sizergh, p.21
  4. Keats-Rohan, Domesday People, p.126 (Aitard de Vals), p.382 (Robert de Vallibus), p.478 (Willelm De Partenai).
  5. Wikipedia contributors, "Cumberland," Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cumberland&oldid=1012554690 (accessed March 24, 2021).
  6. 6.0 6.1 Monasticon Anglicanum, or, The history of the ancient abbies, and other monasteries, hospitals, cathedral and collegiate churches, in England and Wales with divers French, Irish, and Scotch monasteries formerly relating to England Dugdale, William, Sir, 1605-1686., Dodsworth, Roger, 1585-1654., Stevens, John, d. 1726. History of the antient abbeys, monasteries, hospitals, cathedral and collegiate churches., Wright, James, 1643-1713. Page 400 at https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A36798.0001.001/1:8.99?rgn=div2;submit=Go;subview=detail;type=simple;view=fulltext;q1=Hubert+de+Vaux
  7. Barony of Gilsland in British History Online Magna Britannia Vol 4 Cumberland at https://www.british-history.ac.uk/magna-britannia/vol4/liii-lv
  8. Monasticon Anglicanum Ibid at Page 130

See also:

  • Sanders, English Baronies, p.124

Acknowledgments

  • WikiTree profile Vaux-94 created through the import of SRW 7th July 2011.ged on Jul 7, 2011 by Stephen Wilkinson. S
  • This person was created through the import of Acrossthepond.ged on 21 February 2011.
  • Crickett Lucero, firsthand knowledge.




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Comments: 10

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Keats-Rohan does not try to connect this Hubert to any parents. Domesday Descendants p.756. He is much younger than the Robert who we are giving him as a brother.

This article does try to connect them, and is cited by Sanders: https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archiveDS/archiveDownload?t=arch-2055-1/dissemination/pdf/Article_Level_Pdf/tcwaas/001/1880/vol4/tcwaas_001_1880_vol4_0035.pdf

posted by Andrew Lancaster
edited by Andrew Lancaster
You're welcome to correct the profile if you are pre-1500 certified here on wikitree. :-)
posted by PE Rosner
I do have certification. But they are already connected. So actually I am wondering whether we should start DISconnecting, and I normally do things like that in smaller steps. The parents might not be real people as far as I can see. Going back further it seems clear our Vaux tree before 1086 looks mythical, so the question is what we keep.
posted by Andrew Lancaster
Another source

The Early History of the Stricklands https://archive.org/details/earlyhistoryofst00wash_0/page/n39/mode/1up?view=theater see the chart after pg 15

posted by Dale Scott
Father born in 1082 not 1102, typo
posted by Mary Gresham
Do you have a source for that? Birth records are extremely rare in this period.
posted by Andrew Lancaster
There is a problem with the son Robert, both were born c1102. This Robert probably had a different father. His listed brother and sister were both born 40 years later.
posted by Dan Norum
father and brother with double name; only source in geni: red flags
posted by Andrew Lancaster
Hubert and his son Robert were both born in 1102. Impossible. Dates need checking. Definitely something is not correct.
posted by Harry Kelly
Vaux-157 and Vaux-94 appear to represent the same person because: Need to be merged once mothers are merged.

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Categories: Early Barony of Irthington