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Richard Guise (abt. 1757 - 1821)

Richard Guise
Born about in Englandmap
Son of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Father of , , and
Died at about age 64 in Liverpool, New South Wales, Australiamap
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Profile last modified | Created 29 Apr 2021
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Contents

Biography

Richard was born about 1757. He passed away in 1821.

From "Richard Guise: Englishman or French Duke", by Roslyn Cartwright:

Richard enlisted "in the First Troop of Horse Grenadier Guards on 15 March 1784. From June 1784 unti June 1787 he is listed on Muster Rolls for this regiment, which was stationed at Hyde Park, London. He served as a private until honourably discharged on 4 June 1788 when this troop was reduced, along with the Scots troop, to reform as the First and Second Regiments of Life Guards and the Royal Horse Guards Blue. In the following year he re-enlisted but this time seeking service abroad in a corps of lower repute, the New South Wales Corps. Captain Paterson enlisted Richard for the Corps on 14 August 1789, two months prior to his attestation."

He was eventually promoted to the rank of sergeant in the New South Wales Corps.

Marriage: The marriage to his wife Elizabeth has not been found. Several trees have his marriage to Elizabeth Timblett at Bristol in 1783, however this is unlikely (see Research Notes below).

They arrived at Sydney NSW on the ship William according to the 1811 muster, on the ship Young William according to the 1814 muster.[1]

They had children:

  • Hannah GUISE abt 1793–burial St Philips, Sydney, 21 May 1793[2]
  • Richard GUISE 1794–1854
  • William GUISE 1796–1850
  • Elizabeth GUISE 1799–1869

1809 Sep 6: Granted 300 acres in the district of Minto. 1809 Dec 30: Leased 43½ rods in Barrack Street in the town of Sydney.[3]

Death 16 April 1821 at Liverpool New South Wales, Australia, age 64 of "liver complaint", according to the burial register.

Burial 18 April 1821 by Reverend Robert Cartwright, registered at St Luke's Church of England Liverpool. (He was the first person buried in the "New Burying Ground").[4] A photograph of his gravestone is in findagrave.

The mythology of French nobility

The idea that he was of of French nobility which is in several family histories is considered in Roslyn Cartwright's article "Richard Guise: Englishman or French Duke" and rejected with plenty of evidence, for example his military history in England was long before the storming of the Bastille in 1789.

The French connection appears to have originated in 1947, from Dame Mary Gilmore's childhood memories of Wagga Wagga. The fantasy has been expanded in various publications, including newspaper historical features.[5]

The gravestone of Richard's son Richard Guise at St John the Baptist Church, Canberra has engraved symbols on three corners of the stone - these symbols are decorative items resembling 'the French fleur-de-lis with tips pointed downwards' and are 'totally unlike either the Cross of Lorraine or the symbols portrayed on the coat of arms of the Duc de Guise'.[5]

"Richard de Guise" is his name in some websites: "There is no evidence yet come to light that the family in NSW ever inserted the ‘de’ into the surname before 1958, when May Taylor claimed to be descended from ‘William Guise or De Guise’."[5]

Research Notes

Marriage to Elizabeth Timblett at Bristol in 1783? There was a marriage at St James Church of England in Bristol on 1 September 1783 between Richard Guise and Elizabeth Timblett. [6] However this is unlikely to be the same Richard Guise - see Comment by Roslyn Cartwright below.

Sources

  1. ↑ Quoted in Biographical Database of Australia (BDA) https://www.bda-online.org.au/mybda/search/biographical-report/15001054501?f=richard&l=guise&ol=&i=3&s=&p=
  2. ↑ NSW BDM online index Death GUISE HANNAH 1021/1793 V17931021 2A INFANT and 614/1793 V1793614 4 INFANT
  3. ↑ "Land Grants 1788-1809 New South Wales,- Norfolk Island - Van Diemen's Land, Edited by R. J. Ryan, Australian Documents Library 1981, quoted in Biographical Database of Australia (BDA) https://www.bda-online.org.au/mybda/search/biographical-report/15001054501?f=richard&l=guise&ol=&i=3&s=&p=
  4. ↑ Sydney, Australia, Anglican Parish Registers, 1814-2011 for Richard Guise, Liverpool St Luke Composite 19 May 1811 - 07 July 1823 https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/61177/images/45578_liv%5Eco18111823-00041?pId=231655
  5. ↑ 5.0 5.1 5.2 Cartwright, Roslyn. "Richard Guise: Englishman or French Duke." Journal of the Royal Australian Historical Society 102, no. 2 (2016): 203-16. http://www.monaropioneers.com/Newsletter/GUISE%20Richard%20Guise%20Englishman%20or%20French%20duke.pdf
  6. ↑ There was a marriage at Bristol St James Church of England on 1 September 1783 between Richard Guise and Elizabeth Timblett by banns. They both marked the register with a cross. Witnesses were Thos Llewellin and Ann Jones. Bristol, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1935 for Richard Guise, Bristol St James Parish Register 1776-1785 https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/61686/images/engl0082d_p-st-j-r-3-4_m_00316?pId=917237

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Comments: 2

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David Cartwright
There is doubt that Richard's wife, Elizabeth, was Elizabeth Timblett. The Richard Guise that married Elizabeth Timblett in 1783 is unlikely to have had no children for a decade and then afterwards produce 4 children in quick succession following circa 1792. The other problem is that in the muster of the ship Gorgon, taken at Portsmouth in 1791, does not list a wife for Richard although other wives are listed for other NSW Corps members (PRO ADM 36/11120). It seems likely therefore that the marriage between an Elizabeth and Richard of the NSW Corps occurred after 1791. Her surname remains unknown and no marriage has been found.

Roslyn Cartwright (Dec 2023)

posted by David Cartwright
Stevens-18395 Heather Stevens
Hi Roslyn,

Thank you so much for your comment. It sounds like the marriage is "unlikely" rather than "possible" so I have moved it into a Research Note.

Thanks again, Heather

posted by Heather Stevens

Featured National Park champion connections: Richard is 21 degrees from Theodore Roosevelt, 22 degrees from Stephanus Johannes Paulus Kruger, 21 degrees from George Catlin, 23 degrees from Marjory Douglas, 32 degrees from Sueko Embrey, 21 degrees from George Grinnell, 25 degrees from Anton Kröller, 23 degrees from Stephen Mather, 19 degrees from Kara McKean, 25 degrees from John Muir, 19 degrees from Victoria Hanover and 30 degrees from Charles Young on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.

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