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This page has been accessed 7,801 times.

Return to main Palatine Migration Project page.

This is just intended to be a space where folks can communicate about our project. With Privacy set at Open, anyone can join the conversation.

Just a recommendation - but possibly we could use the "messages" at bottom of this page for general announcements and for introducing new topics for discussion. And then any followup discussion could take place here in the space pages text.
I have added all active project members as profile managers, so announcements at the right should show up in our email feeds, while comments in this feed should show up in our activity feeds.

To sign your comment and add a date stamp on the text sections below, insert 4 tildes after your comment. (Like this: ~~~~)

Contents

Space:Palatine_Immigrants_of_New_Bern,_Province_of_Carolina Anyone interested in expanding this are more than welcome.

Create free-space pages to document individual settlements by Palatines

Settlements like New Bern are great subjects for free-space pages. Include lists of known settlers, and put the page in the existing New Bern category, as well as our Palatine Migration category for settlements. - Smith-62120 12:56, 5 December 2019 (UTC) (typed from phone, so it's short)

Added a freespace page for early Tulpehocken valley settlers shown on the 1904 Lindenmuth Map

I'm just posting a heads up that I have created a list of early Tulpehocken settlers who are mentioned on the famous map published by C.I. Lindenmuth in 1904. These are Palatines who arrived either via New York in 1710 (the majority) or via Philadelphia, and arrived in Tulpehocken between ~1723 and 1735. I've added Wikitree links to those (sourced) profiles I could identify. The Palatine Migration Project helps manage many of these profiles, but there remain plenty of names that are un-identified and/or un-sourced. Feel free to chip in with updates to the page if you find a name on the list that dovetails with your research. --Added by Michael Schell on 17 Sept 2019

Thanks for this Michael. I've added a link to this page on the Palatine Migration Research Resources page. ---- Rutherford-448 06:14, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Help with a proposed merge

I would love some help .... someone proposed a merge for Cockman-1, Seitz-789.This person is supposed to represent Catherine, wife of Johannn Dewalt “David” Cagle, b. 1728. I believe that her maiden name is actually unknown.

Also, I don’t know proper merging procedures for issues like this, but I think that the reason someone gave this Catherine a last name is because she was confused with one of these Catherines:

Heinrich Cagle-103 b. 1730 m. Caterana Seitz Cagle Seitz-114 (she is in his will and 1810 census as Caterana or Caty) David Dewalt Cagle Cagle-1263 b 1757 son of Heinrich, supposedly married Caterana Cockman 1764-1802, Cockman-16

How to proceed?? Thank you!! PS: One useful compilation I’ve seen: https://moorecountywallaces.com/histories/Cagle.pdf 2 sources I wish I had access to, but the libraries are too far from me: Cagle Families in the Southern States, Jimmy B. Cagle, 2000. Available in 7 libraries - https://www.worldcat.org/title/cagle-families-in-the-southern-states-descendants-of-leonhart-cagle-ca-1684/oclc/45756384&referer=brief_results Also useful, a long-running newsletter: https://www.worldcat.org/title/cagle-journal-of-historical-inquiry/oclc/13285797&referer=brief_results -Elaine Weatherall Jul 29 2019 Weatherall-96 15:56, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Straightening out the wives shouldn't be too difficult. The biggest problem will be in determining where all the children belong.
For starters, this merge should be rejected, and Seitz-789 disconnected from Johann Theobald and connected to his brother Heinrich. Then a merge set up with Seitz-789 and Seitz-114.
The children of Seitz-789 need to be reviewed as well. Rutherford-448 21:02, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
Great, will do, thank you, Dave!

Seeking advice on LNAB for Reith/Reith/Reidt/Reed/Rith family connected to Reed's church in Tulpehocken

I have proposed a merge of duplicate profiles for Leonard Reith/Rieth, who was one of the founders of Reed's Church in Tullpehocken (1727). Rieth-77 and and Reith-178 definitely represent the same person, and the two biographies are complementary. Currently on Wikitree, two of his siblings are Rieth and three are Reith. HZ Jones uses Reidt. I have also seen Rith used--and of course the famous church is most often called Reed, which is the name may of the family adopted in subsequent generations. Any suggestions?

--- Added by Michael Schell

If the family adopted Reed, then the German spelling was probably Rieth, which pronounces as Reeth. Reith was pronounced with the hard "i" as in rice. Hard to ignore Jones though. Rutherford-448 07:15, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Family name of Catharina, wife of Johann Jacob Sternenberger (Hunter lists #742)

The listing for Johann Jacob in Vol 2, p. 997 does not give the family name of Catharina. In Vol 3, p. 375, however, there is a small clue about 2 possible villages of her origin (presuming that she originates from the same village as her husband). Hope this helps:

6797 Waldmohr (7 km N of Homburg) was a real seedbed of 1709er emigrants, many of whom went to Schoharie. Therefore, it is interesting to note that Hanß Jacob Sternberger, son of Jost of Bruchmühlbach sponsored a Johan Ulrich there in 1693 and 1694. Perhaps he was the emigrant. Ernest Thode also suggests looking for more on this family at 6660 Mörsbach, near Niederauerbach, now both within the city of Zweibrücken.

--- Added by Michael Schell in reference to Sternberg-117

The marriage record that Jaki found looks promising, but I'm not sure how far we can go with it. Based on her two profiles, I would say that her LNAB is best characterized as "Unknown." We have speculation by Henry Jones to the effect that her husband, named Sternberg, might have been from Bruchmühlbach and now there's a marriage record for a Jacob Sternberger marrying a Catharina in a town 21 miles from Bruchmühlbach. That marriage record provides a basis for speculating about her LNAB, but I don't think it's strong enough evidence to declare her LNAB to be Broccharts.
The previous record on the page (dated two days earlier) is for an Elisabetha Broccharts marrying a man whose name I can't make out with any certainty. That makes me wonder whether Elisabetha's husband also appears on the Hunter lists. -- Smith-62120 00:36, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

The marriage two days previous looks like the man's name who married Elisabetha was Nicolaus Nissel. Don't see any name like that on my copy of Gov. Hunter's list. But don't know why that would be disqualifying in any way. Marriages were fourteen years before the migration. The other couple may have been related, but this was over a decade previous. May not have survived the wars and starvation. Rutherford-448 02:46, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Stevenson wrote to me and reported that another researcher, Simon Ross provides: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:3VHH-PPL which indicates that LNAB of Catherina was Sternberger and not the surname from her husband. He says that this seems to be supported by Jones who refers to her as Catherina Sternberg. Maybe Unknown is indeed best here. Rutherford-448 07:49, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, David, Ellen, and Stevenson. I agree (for now) that Catharina's LNAB is currently unknown. Sternberger and Sternberg could very well be alternate spellings of the same name. The person who posted the info sited above on Family Search writes: "I use ancestry to play with this one and I place all my more accurately researched info on Wikitree." (He has not posted Catharina's surname on Wikitree. ) Are there perhaps any other Broccharts on the Hunter lists? -- Jaki Erdoes

Orphan profile on Wikitree for Jacob Dieffenbach

Michael Schell described this in a profile message.

Please add the Palatine Migration priject box template to that profile, and adopt the profile and add the project account as project manager. Use.the emai address wikitree-palatine-migration@googlegroups.com

There probably are lots of important Palatines who aren't in this project yet. It takes all of us working together.... - Smith-62120 22:11, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Now that you added the Palatine Migration project box, the profile is also supposed to have the project account as a profile manager. Please add it. Otherwise a Leader will have to do so. - Smith-62120 00:18, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi Ellen I have no idea how to assign an email address as a project manager for Jacob Dieffenbach. Please explain how to do this or else a Leader will have to do it. Michael Schell. UPDATE: added the suggested email address to trusted list for Jacob's profile. Hope this is what you were requesting.
You are almost there Michael. Now just go back into the privacy page and add the Palatine project as a second manager for the profile. and thanks for your contributions here!

Palatines from Ireland to Canada?

WikiTree member P Shunk asks: Just wondering about the Palatines from Ireland to Canada? Were they first Germans who migrated to Ireland?
Yes, the Irish Palatines were German families that were settled there by the British at the same time that others were settled in the American colonies, particularly New York. These original migrants to Ireland are within the scope of this project.
However, the Irish Palatines to Canada were part of a later migration and are outside the scope of our project. - Dave Rutherford

im not familiar with the Irish Palatines to Canada, so this may or may not be relevant...
The first wave of Palatine refugees were supposed to be settled in England and Ireland, but the numbers overwhelmed the ability of Britain to accommodate them, so many were sent on to North America instead. I think some of the people who were initially settled in England and Ireland also went to North America. Many of those early Palatine migrants went through a multi-year migration, first to Rotterdam, where they waited months to go to England; then to England and Ireland; and then to North America.
There are immigrants to Canada in the mid-1700s who were identified as Palatines and would be part of this project. - Ellen Smith

I was not aware of any Palatines who came directly to Canada. At the time of the first wave in the very early 1700's, Canada was French and not open to settlement by the Palatines.
There may be a few of the German immigrants who came over after the first wave, and joined in the American Revolution on the Royal side, and subsequently migrated to Canada as Loyalists.
But any Irish Palatines would have been settled in Ireland by 1710 and Canada was not British until the 1760's and not really open for settlement until after the American Revolution. So any Irish Palatines who made it to Canada would have been descendants of the original Irish Palatines. My 3X great grandmother Barbara (Young) Bowles was from the Palatine road in Tipperary. She came to Canada in the 1820's but is outside the scope of our project as she is at least 3rd or 4th generation Irish Palatine, not one of the original settlers there. She wasn't born until 1776. - Dave Rutherford

Interesting about your Irish Palatine ancestor -- and her origin on the Palatine road in Tipperary, Dave!
Some time ago I ran across a compilation of passenger lists for Palatine ships arriving in Nova Scotia (I think they arrived in Lunenburg) around 1749-1752. Links to the material I found are compiled on the page Space:Palatine Ships to Nova Scotia. That material (which I didn't investigate much) is the source of my information about Palatines arriving in Canada in that time period. It wasn't Canada yet, of course, but Nova Scotia was later to become part of Canada. - Smith-62120 02:31, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Nice catch Ellen!
I was not aware of these folks, but yes they definitely would qualify for our project & Nova Scotia is definitely Canada! You caught me being Ontario-centric. Showing some of the gaps of my knowledge of early Maritime history.
It still holds that the Irish Palatines that came later would not be part of the project though. - Rutherford-448 18:01, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Germanna Colonies?

See Category: Germanna Colonies in Virginia. I propose that the project scope be revised to explicitly exclude these settlements in Virginia, as they seem be distinct from Palatine migrations. -- Ellen, 9 February 2017

OK Ellen. I am not sure where to add this. I see that the Germanna page is already linked under a "WikiTree Links" heading. Don't know if it should be mentioned there, or if the link and accompanying comment should be placed at the top under "Palatine Migration Project". Do whatever you think is best. -- Dave, 9 February 2017

For the most part, these colonies can be kept separate from Palatine migrants, since the colonies were apparently the destination for the emigrants who first settled there. However, I found that some immigrants arrived in Philadelphia, settled in Pennsylvania, then later moved to the Germanna colonies, so I guess there will be some people who fit in both categories. I edited the Palatine Migrants category description to explain that. -- Ellen, 13 February 2017

Overlap with "Swiss-German and Mennonite Immigrants to Pennsylvania"?

Category:Swiss-German and Mennonite Immigrants to Pennsylvania contains people who may (with my limited imagination, anyway) be indistinguishable from Palatine migrants -- they arrived after 1709 (and often a good bit later) and I don't believe they were all attracted to William Penn's lands (nor Mennonites). Is there a good basis for demarcating a scope boundary between these subprojects, or do we need to treat this as an area of overlap to be discussed with the other project? -- Ellen, 23 January 2017

Yes, it looks like a clear overlap. But is this page really a sub-project? It calls itself this, but I think it is only a category. It is impossible to track activity on the "project" and find out if anyone is even active with it right now. And the William Penn project, of which it is supposed to be a sub-project, defines itself rather narrowly as dealing with 23 ships in 1681 and 1682. So, perhaps those that didn't contract with and settle on Penn's grants should be part of our project. This category looks like it was set up with fairly narrow parameters, but soon became a catch-all destination for anything German & Pennsylvania. -- Dave, 24 January 2017

Further examination of the history of that category and some of the profiles in that category leads me to think that there might be some misconceptions and confusion surrounding that category, but there also are some distinctions to be drawn between Palatines and other groups. The earliest settlers of Lancaster County do appear to have been Mennonites who arrived in the decade of the 1710s, and other Anabaptists followed, but Palatines also started arriving in Pennsylvania not long after the Mennonites. And us modern people can have difficulty identifying our ancestors' religions. I found one German immigrant identified on his WikiTree profile as a Quaker, apparently because he was a member of a [German] Reformed congregation; that may indicate a misunderstanding of the terminology of Protestant denominations. There also were some Huguenots settling in Pennsylvania in that same time period, including some who had been living in Germany or Alsace (and speaking German, apparently) for some time before emigrating. -- Ellen, 24 January 2017
Further to the above, this webpage presents a lightweight capsule summary of Pennsylvania German immigration that seems consistent with what I've read elsewhere. That page (which I've lightly supplemented with info from other sources) indicates that beginning in 1683 and until before 1710, Germans arrived in direct or indirect response to invitation from William Penn. In 1710, Swiss Mennonites began to arrive, and Hans Herr and Martin Kündig took out a patent for ten thousand acres of land on Pequea Creek, Conestogoe (subsequently Lancaster county, organized 1729). The page doesn't indicate how long the influx of Swiss Mennonites continued. 1723 was the year when Palatines from New York removed to the Tulpehocken Valley, and members of the Kocherthal party (Palatines) had arrived in Pennsylvania earlier. Systematic recording of passenger lists from German ships arriving at Philadelphia (typically identified as "Palatines") began in 1727. Interestingly, sources identify several members of the Kocherthal party as Huguenots.
It seems to me that (1) we need to consult with the leadership of the William Penn project regarding their project scope and interfaces with this project, (2) it probably would make sense to offer to take the Swiss Mennonites of 1710 under the umbrella of this subproject, since their time and geography closely overlap with the time and geography of the first Palatine migrants, and (3) we might need to have special subcategories for Mennonites, other Anabaptists, and Palatine Huguenots as subcomponents of this subproject. -- Ellen, 24 January 2017
Here's an example of a profile that's currently in the William Penn project and that might possibly fit this project, but probably doesn't. It doesn't fit the William Penn project's defined pre-1700 chronological scope, but there's some indication the father visited Philadelphia before 1700 and the family went to Philadelphia before the Palatine migration began. -- Ellen, 13 February 2017

Donauschwabens?

Kelly Dazet is asking whether the Germans who migrated to the east should be part of the project. They were known as the Donauschwabens or Danube-Swabians. Doing a quick check online I found the following articles:

Perhaps the biggest thing that struck me about this eastward migration was the lengthy time period involved, from c.1683 right up to the Napoleonic era. This is a longer stretch of time than we have envisaged for our project, although much of the migration did take place in the same time frame. My own two cents - I think it should probably be a separate sub-project under German Roots. But - open for discussion....

I agree that the Donauschwaben would be more effectively treated as a separate subproject. The time period does coincide with the Palatine Migration, but the destination of emigration was different, and subsequent history is very different. I think both the Palatine and Donauschwabe immigrant groups would be better served by their own focused subprojects. -- Ellen, 23 Jan 2017

It turns out that there is a sub-project of German Roots already proposed for the Donauschwaben, with Rose Nunez as coordinator. It is listed under "Current Sub-Projects" here: Project:German_Roots There is an associated category which already has 65 profiles attached to it: Category:Donauschwaben I will let Kelly know. -- Dave, 25 Jan 2017

Hessians?

Jenny asks an interesting question regarding the Hessian soldiers who fought as mercenaries on the British side in the American Revolution. Until seeing her question and researching the subject, i didn't realize that many of them stayed in America. (There were Hessian soldiers hired to fight in other wars in other places, but not much indication that they stayed behind in the places where they served.) Here are a few Internet links for information that I read in my quick research:

Reasons in favor of including Hessians in this project include:

  1. They were Germans, from essentially the same regions that Palatine immigrants came from.
  2. They also arrived in the 18th century.
  3. At least some of the Hessians who stayed in America had been prisoners of war in German communities in America during their military service and had blended into a local population that probably had a large component of Palatine immigrants.
  4. It may be hard to tell Hessians apart from Palatine immigrants, and it's likely that some of the ancestors whom people think of as Palatine immigrants were actually Hessian soldiers.
  5. Some of the Hessians who remained in America apparently are rather well documented (for example, see http://jsha.org/jshacomb.htm ), so adding them to the project scope might not be particularly burdensome.

Reasons against including Hessians in this project include:

  1. The project has a lot on its plate already; I think the Palatine migration to America was much larger than any other colonial migration.
  2. Hessian immigration occurred for very different reasons and under very different circumstances than the "Palatines." The Palatines left Germany voluntarily, mainly in response to economic circumstances, and arrived in America on immigration ships. In contrast, the Hessians were mostly involuntary conscripts who were shipped to America on some form of military transport.
  3. Hessians also could fall in the scope of the 1776 project.
  4. Hessians who immigrated to America could be successfully treated by a small, separate focused subproject of German Roots, benefiting from resources like http://jsha.org/jshacomb.htm

I think I'm leaning toward that small focused subproject of German Roots. - Ellen, 20 January 2017


--- I agree with you Ellen. I think it would work better as a separate sub-project of German roots. This is both because of the "different reasons and different circumstances" that you mention, and also because I think that technically, any Hessian soldiers that 'settled' in North America did so after the conclusion of the American Revolution. And I thought we were going to concentrate on folks who settled here before that event. - Dave, 20 January 2017

Late to the party. On the other hand, one of my ancestors was a Hessian soldier who fought with General Braddock during the French and Indian War (pre-Revolution) and stayed. Having received land in exchange for his service. -- Kathy Rabenstein-9 06:05, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

January 2017

What's the odds of a group of 4 people including two April fools? - Ellen

Yeah, that is funny. Skeeter said he had not come across another April fool on WikiTree before me. I have half a dozen in my tree! - Dave

My grand aunt, Hulda Prideaux, was born on 1 Apr 1906. Does that make her an "April Fool" according to this conversation? Her parents were German immigrants from Baden-Württemberg (Richard Hollenbeck 09:21, 15 May 2017 (EDT) ).

It sure does !! She's a member of the club! Dave Rutherford 10:52 PM EDT 15 May 2017

My mother Arlene (Eastman) Flamer can't be described as a Hessian, but she sure was an April Fool, born 1 Apr 1926. In fact, I don't think she has any German ancestry. Judy Flamer] 1:36 PM CDT 15 May 2018

If she were French then she would be a "poisson d'Avril" or April fish !! Rutherford-448 07:40, 22 November 2018 (UTC)





Memories: 2
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Glenn Major
"High Deutsch" vs Pennsylvania Deutsch.

Terms used to describe my grgrgrandmother and grandfather , Mary Castleman and David Skiles. The prominent Castleman family of Davidson County were Palitine dcendants who publicly were Castlemans but privately were Casselmans, Palatine emigrants . Mary and her sister marriage documents list Casselman while their census name is Castleman.

posted 4 Jul 2020 by Glenn Major   [thank Glenn]
Anonymous Snyder
On the subject off Hessians , my son's paternal

ancestor's brother came to fight as a Hessian. They were not in the same unit but they came in different boats and sometimes they would be close enough that they could talk. The brother tht went back to Germany kept a diary, it has been translated it was available https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Von_Bardeleben-4

posted 15 Nov 2018 by Anonymous Snyder   [thank Anonymous]
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Immigrant Profile
Palatine Migration Welcome
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List of German-Irish Palatine Family Names
List of German-Irish Palatine Family Names
Hunter's List focus on Kast
Hunter's List focus on Kast
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Comments: 174

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Nelson Weller Ph.D.
I wish to thank everyone who has up-date my Shouse entries. I think you have done a wonderful job and am grateful for your help.

Nelson A l Weller, Ph.D.

posted by Nelson Weller Ph.D.
Evelyn (Taylor) Vigdahl
Curious what the reasoning is for stopping the Palatine Migration Project at the American Revolutionary War? Historically speaking, ending it in the decade after the French Napoleonic Wars (1815) might make more sense? Alternatively, a separate project for this second wave of Palatinate immigrants might be in order? https://pabook.libraries.psu.edu/literary-cultural-heritage-map-pa/feature-articles/persecution-division-and-opportunity-origins-old
posted by Evelyn (Taylor) Vigdahl
edited by Evelyn (Taylor) Vigdahl
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
German immigration has continued unabated throughout American history. The "second wave" of the Amish that you refer to actually started c.1815 and continued until the Civil War. But it was the colonial era arrivals that were called Palatines by the English speaking population of the colonies.

The project is already very large, with well over 5000 profiles, and has not finished growing by any means. Trying to incorporate all German immigrants from all time periods into one project would be a Herculean task. Trying to do too much usually means doing it badly. But starting a separate project centred on the Amish and their immigration over time sounds like a good idea.

posted by Dave Rutherford
Frederick Hebel
Yes, I also believe the Palatine Migration Project should be divided into more projects.

The Palatine Migration Project should only include people migrating from the Pfalz(Palatinate) and former Kurpfalz. That means the approximate Pfalz areas present and historically left and right of the Rhein River. Fred Hebel

posted by Frederick Hebel
edited by Frederick Hebel
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
With a lot of arrivals, particularly at Philadelphia, it is uncertain where in the Holy Roman Empire that they came from. And the English speaking colonial population considered them all to be "Palatines".
posted by Dave Rutherford
C Carpenter
Curious if anyone is familiar with the group of northern French Huguenots that settled in Philadelphia County (later part of Oley & Exeter Townships in Berks County) from about 1709-1740. Some of them had first moved to NY (part of DeTurck group), prior to removing to Penn. Attempting to identify the related families of David Gerrad/Gerrard and his wife Margaret who first appear in 1733. The adjoining neighbors to the original survey were Abraham Herbein, James Norrill, John Bertolet (two sides), & Mrs. Hockley. Abraham Herbein & John/Jean Bertolet are both named as French Huguenots that had merged into the Palatine migration and are reported to have been closely aligned with the DeTruck/Weimer/Keim families.

A 30 year-old Nicholas Gerrard was one of the Palatine arrivals on the ship Princess in 1736, and is reported to have settled in Berks County. Nicholas Gerard and a David Garard are both listed Memorials of the Huguenots by Rev. A. Stapleton, but I have not been able to identify them to date. Pennsylvania authorities spelled our David Gerrad's surname Garret/Gehret/Jarret, which was similar to the families of Rudolph Gehret that settled in neighboring Alsace Township. However, the naming traditions do not appear to be similar and no connections have been identified. Although several of their children would later marry Quakers and join Quaker meetings, David Garred and Margaret never appear to have been Quakers.

Any suggestions on records related to these groups would be appreciated. Seems odd that there is so much information regrading nearly all the other families and nothing tied to David Garred and Margaret prior to 1733 (including no links to any faith groups/churches). Appreciate any assistance and/or guidance. Thanks & God Bless...CC

posted by C Carpenter
Kast-241 Linda Kast
I recommend checking out Annette Burgert's books if you haven't already. She wrote a bunch of books documenting Palatines arriving in Pennsylvania, much like Hank Jones did for New York. There's an index to her works: "Master Index to the Emigrants Documented in the Published Works of Annette K. Burgert," which you can check and then go to the relevant book. I've discovered several of my Pennsylvania Palatines in her works.
posted by Linda Kast
C Carpenter
Appreciate the suggestion. Unfortunately, I do not see any of Annette Burgert's books available online & do not have access to the library at this time.
posted by C Carpenter
Smith-62120 Ellen Smith
The "Master Index" appears to be for sale on Amazon for a rather modest price, but in the past when I've seen references to specific books, I found that those books were out of print and not in a library anywhere near me.
posted by Ellen Smith
Kast-241 Linda Kast
You can buy it very reasonably (12.95) from the publisher here:

https://www.masthof.com/products/master-index-to-the-emigrants-documented-in-the-published-works-of-annette-k-burgert

Yes, the books themselves are probably out of print, but you can order them interlibrary loan through your local library. That's what I do.

posted by Linda Kast
Judy (Luckenbill) Brett
I bought a copy to search for which of her books mentioned Luckenbill, Lukenbill, Lukenbiehl - they arrived on the Thistle in 1730. They weren't listed. So at best her work is incomplete or sketchy.

If you email me names you are interested I'll check for you

posted by Judy (Luckenbill) Brett
Kast-241 Linda Kast
No source could possibly contain ALL 18th-century immigrants to Pennsylvania. Just because yours got left out of her work, doesn't mean it's incomplete or sketchy. Burgert and Hank Jones have actually co-authored books. Like I said, I found some good stuff on several immigrant ancestors, to include family information from their Palatine hometown plus the records found here that connect them. Lucky we have an index for less than $20 that can tell us whether she lists them or not. I've lent out my copy or I'd offer the lookup too.
posted by Linda Kast
Hunt-21207 AmyLynn Hunt
Might it be better than nothing?
posted by AmyLynn Hunt
edited by AmyLynn Hunt
Ann Risso
I checked the Burgert index for anything close to David Gerrad/Gerrard. Searching under Ge, Gi, Ja, Je, etc. No Davids. The closest to his surname that I found were:
  • Peter Gerret (aka Gehret, Gereth) 1749 - Herbitzheim = 67260 Sarre-Union, in her Northern Alsace book, went to York Co.
  • Jacob Girardin (aka Schirardin, Sheradine)1748 - Rauwiller = 67320 Drulingen, Northern Alsace - went to Berks Co. (Girardin-103)
  • Jacob Girardin c. 1763 - Northern Alsace
  • Paulus Girardin (aka Charetin) 1753 - Rauwiller, Northern Alsace - went to Berks County

Since your David seemed to have associated with some of the early Huguenots in PA, maybe these are alternate last names worth checking out? There was also a Girardin (aka Schirardin) family in Friedrichstal, and some in that community came to PA and Maryland early. Maybe too much of a stretch.

Of more doubtful significance:

  • Abraham Gerhard(t) 1750 - in her Western Palatinate book
  • Friedrich Gerhard(t) 1739 - Langenselbold book
  • Peter Gerhard(t) 1739 - Western Palatinate
  • Wilhelm Gerhard(t) 1739 - Western Palatinate
  • Conrad Gerhart 1742 - Langenselbold
posted by Ann Risso
edited by Ann Risso
C Carpenter
Appreciate the information! With so many alternative spellings possible, it has been very difficult to trace out all the potential connections. That said, I rarely find the given name of "David" with any of the various alternative spellings; nor do I find the given name of David Garred's son Nathaniel. Of course, the given name of David Garred's oldest son "John Garred" can be found in nearly every alternative spelling I have seen.

With the exception of our David Garred, all the other alternative spellings (beginning with Rudolph Gehret & his son Henry Gehret/Garret) seem to have settled in neighboring Alsace Township of Berks County. Moreover, the spellings found in Alsace Townships suggest the pronunciation of their surnames was similar (if not the same) to the pronunciation of David's surname of Gerrad. Yet, I still have not been able to find a connection with our Garred family that settled in Oley/Exter Township before moving to Robeson Township which is so frustratingly close.

Virginia is interesting. There was an early reference to "the estate of Margaret Garret, dec'd & David Garrett her son" that was administered to by John Coane & his wife Margaret (David's sister) in Lancaster County in 1670 (The Book of Garretts compiled by Hester E. Garrett, Page 45). However, I am not aware any migration from Lancaster County (Virginia) to Berks County (Pennsylvania) during the this time frame. Maryland would seem more likely due to the border dispute with Pennsylvania which led to Cresap's War in the 1730s that forced many of the non-English speaking settlers to move deeper into Pennsylvania for protection.

posted by C Carpenter
Evelyn (Taylor) Vigdahl
I learned recently that a large group of "Dutch Palatine" started immigrating in 1709, initially to Newburgh, NY, but then a bit later a group of them moved into Berks Co. (You can read a little about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palatines#Palatine_migration_to_New_York_and_Pennsylvania). I know the Keim family was one of those, and they do seem to have kept mostly separate from the Amish in the Northkill area.
posted by Evelyn (Taylor) Vigdahl
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Kocherthal's Palatines were German not Dutch although, like most German migrants at the time, they did emigrate from a Dutch port.
posted by Dave Rutherford
C Carpenter
Appreciate you taking the time to respond. I did find information regarding the group led by Conrad Weiser in Early eighteenth century Palatine emigration; a British government redemptioner project to manufacture naval stores, by Walter Allen Knittle (https://archive.org/details/earlyeighteenthc00knit/page/162/mode/2up). Unfortunately, I have not found any connections to our David Gerrad or his wife Margaret in Berks County (Pennsylvania). That said, George Zeh from this group does remove to Berks County (Pennsylvania) and then on to the Greenbrier River in Virginia where some of Zeh's children/grandchildren are aligned with David Gerrad's children...
posted by C Carpenter
Wentz-804 Phillip Wentz
Proposed a merge between Jacob Löwengut (Löwengut-4) and Hans Jacob Liebengut (Liebengut-4).

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:MergePerson&user1_name=L%C3%B6wengut-4&user2_name=Liebengut-4&action=compare

Any thoughts on accepting/rejecting the merge? Surname is a variant, but the dates are throwing me of.

PM Wentz

posted by Phillip Wentz
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
This looks to be a good merge. LNAB needs to be decided. According to Burgert it was Liebenguth, so one of these profiles should be changed to that prior to merge.
posted by Dave Rutherford
Schell-1258 Michael Schell
Any thoughts on this -ei versus -ie spelling variation? The chief German spelling seems to be -ei--Leibenguth, but I haven't seen any primary sources that show it spelled that way in America.
posted by Michael Schell
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
I don't have access to her books, but it is reported that Burgert used Liebenguth and specifically that this was the spelling on his baptism.
posted by Dave Rutherford
Wentz-804 Phillip Wentz
The profile is a complete mess now of merges. I can no longer do mine as someone merged yet another profile. Someone from the Palatine Project really needs to get in there.
posted by Phillip Wentz
Entrikin-5 Kie (Entrikin) Zelms
Hi Phillip,

The profile was merged and the LNAB was changed to Liebenguth after lots of discussion which appears on the new profile, Liebenguth-7 (previously Liebengut-4) . When the LNAB is changed (and we do that only when we find absolutely that the previous LNAB is incorrect) In the Changes tab, the very first entry shows that Liebenguth-7 was "recreated" from Liebengut-4. What looks like multiple recent merges is really the merge you initiated plus a LNAB change. I agree that some extensive Gedcom cleanup is need on that profile!

posted by Kie (Entrikin) Zelms
Kast-241 Linda Kast
Wanted: Full Hunter's Rations Lists (Palatines in NY). Does anyone know where I can get the full list (preferably copy of the original), with all quarterly 1710–1712 data? I'm trying to track some kids in my immigrant Kast family.
posted by Linda Kast
Olsen-10349 Julia Olsen
I did a quick search, hoping it was in an online archive somewhere. It's not. But...it is apparently part of another book which I found here https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Book_of_Names_Especially_Relating_to/uzu8htIHYfYC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Hunter%27s+Ration+Lists+June,+1710+to+September,+1714+Hunter%27s+Ration+Lists+June,+1710+to+September,+1714&pg=PA65&printsec=frontcover

Not sure if that will help or not.

posted by Julia Olsen
Kast-241 Linda Kast
Thank you, but it's not quite what I'm looking for—there are no numbers in there, just a list of names of heads of families. Someplace else I saw lists with the numbers at 2 dates, one at the beginning and one at the end. I'd like to see those middle numbers too. I think there are about 8 dates in all.
posted by Linda Kast
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Yes, the list showing the first and last entries is available in a number of places including here: http://www.threerivershms.com/knittlesubsistence.htm

I have never found a more detailed list online. If anyone finds one, let us know!

posted by Dave Rutherford
Kast-241 Linda Kast
Thanks, I think that's where I saw those 2 dates. I wonder if Jones has published anything more detailed.

I just noticed something, it was here all along! On my photocopy of the Kast family profile in Jones's "Palatine Families of New York": the under 10 / over 10 numbers on 6 dates starting shortly after they arrived in July 1710.

posted by Linda Kast
Schell-1258 Michael Schell
Hi Linda, the full Hunter Rations Lists were published in Vol. 3 of Jones & Rohrbach's "Even more Palatine Families" (2002). This was the first published version to show the "Journal section" of the Lists. The Journal section shows the subsistence payments in chronological order according to when they were paid out. Prior versions of the Lists were arranged according to the "Ledger section", which is the more commonly reported alphabetized list (i.e., Hunter Lists #123, etc). I transcribed a more detailed description from Rohrbach in a freespace page: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Entries_for_Zellers_and_Anna_Battorfin_on_the_Hunter_Sustenance_Lists_%281710-1713%29

Jones and Rohrbach argue that sometimes the journal section offers clues to relationships among immigrants that often appeared near each other on the list and that these relationships are lost when the list is alphabetized.

As for copies of the lists, I own the book, but the Hunter Lists transcriptions are 151 pages long. Perhaps I can extract the Kast info you need from this and send it?

posted by Michael Schell
edited by Michael Schell
Schell-1258 Michael Schell
In his original "The Palatine Families of New York" (1985), Jones lists the dates and numbers for some of the appearances on the Lists. But the full "scholarly quality" publication of the lists appears in his 2002 book, "Even More Palatine Families," coauthored with Rohrbach.
posted by Michael Schell
Kast-241 Linda Kast
Thanks for your offer, however my sister owns the Jones books and I can get the info from her. There are a few other families I want to see as well.
posted by Linda Kast
Flamer-1 Judy (Flamer) Bramlage
I asked the librarian at AmericanAncestors.org and she replied that they have the list on their shelves in a book found at https://library.nehgs.org/search?/X(the+book+of+names)&SORT=D/X(the+book+of+names)&SORT=D&SUBKEY=(the+book+of+names)/1%2C231%2C231%2CB/frameset&FF=X(the+book+of+names)&SORT=D&2%2C2%2C

More importantly, she found Johann George Kast on page 69 and is emailing me the page. See the attached image Hunter's List focus on Kast.

posted by Judy (Flamer) Bramlage
edited by Judy (Flamer) Bramlage
Murray-13644 Joe Murray
Looks like that book is available online at FamilySearch.org here:

https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/records/item/443564-redirection

posted by Joe Murray
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
This is a helpful book, but the Hunter list here is just names. A more complete rendering can be found in this book - http://www.threerivershms.com/knittlesubsistence.htm

But even this does not show all the columns of entries for the family members that exist in the original document.

posted by Dave Rutherford
Corkins-41 Jerry Corkins
As I understand, it was common practice to use a Saints name as the first name, See naming convections artice from Family Tree Magazine: https://www.familytreemagazine.com/names/first-names/german-naming-traditions/
posted by Jerry Corkins
Pirkle-96 DrO (Pirkle) Olmstead
It is also a practice to repeat a name if a child has died.
posted by DrO (Pirkle) Olmstead
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
The result of all this is that the early Germans did not really have the concept of "middle name", so on WikiTree we leave that name field blank, placing all given names in the first name field and place the "call name" that they were known by, in the preferred name field.
posted by Dave Rutherford
edited by Dave Rutherford
Gürth-8 Andy Gürth
This is the theory, but unfortunately there are some (many) DataDoctors who feel called to break this concept and redistribute all given names from the first name field to the empty fields, citing the WikiTree formatting defaults. - classical system error  ;-)
posted by Andy Gürth
Albright-2276 Dawn Albright
Hello all - can we talk about German names? In this particular profile, Albrecht-191, I notice more than one son whose name begins with "Johannes." I am skeptical of multiple offspring with the same given name. Then, these sons seem be known by their second names of Jacob or Ludwig or what have you. Is there a naming custom I don't know about? Or does this indicate a need for more detailed research and original sources?
posted by Dawn Albright
Gürth-8 Andy Gürth
Hello - as a German I can tell you that in former times it was absolutely usual in German lands, to begin the names of sons with the first names of father and grandfather or also of Christian saints and partly also with names of reigning emperors (e.g. Wilhelm). So in this respect it is completely normal that several sons have the name Johannes. To distinguish them, a calling name was then added, which was then usually also on the headstone. In principle, however, more detailed research and original sources are always useful.
posted by Andy Gürth
edited by Andy Gürth
Albright-2276 Dawn Albright
Thank you Andy. I knew it was something.
posted by Dawn Albright
Gus Gassmann
In addition to what was said already, from my experience in Palatine and Wurttemberg, it was not at all unusual to have father and son and often cousins share the same name, sometimes in conjunction with Johann, but like as not, without. Trying to make sense of all the Johannes Ruhle, son of Johannes Ruhle, for instance, I had to resort to the names of the mothers where available and then bootstrap from likely ages and life progressions.

Good luck!

posted by Gus Gassmann
edited by Gus Gassmann
Schell-1258 Michael Schell
The most common practice is when it's a saint's name it is Johann--as in Johann Jacob Schmidt or Johann Ludwig Albrecht. By contrast, when the first name is Johannes, then it is not a saint's name and it's the equivalent of "John"--as in Johannes Schmidt or Johannes Albrecht. Seldom do I encounter something like "Johann Schmidt" or "Johann Albrecht". I'm sure somebody can show me exceptions, but often when a profile says something like "Johann Albrecht," the birth name was Johan Something Albrecht, and it has been mis-transcribed at some point. Indeed in many families, you'll find multiple sons with Johann Something Albrecht--and another son who is just Johannes Albrecht.
posted by Michael Schell
Schell-1258 Michael Schell
A related topic is the nickname "Hans." While this is indeed a nickname for Johann, among the German Palatines I seldom encounter its usage in the sources. I think a lot of "Hans" comes from secondary genealogy sites that suggest "Hans" as a nickname, and somebody adds it to the profile. In some cultures and regions, Hans is much more commonly used as a nickname.
posted by Michael Schell
Shoffner-188 Phil Shoffner
Andy has it right. Albrecht-191 is my 6G Grandfather. I am of the North Carolina Shoffners and the tradition in my family is to hand down an heirloom item from generation to generation to the eldest son named John in the family. The beneficiary was my oldest brother whose given name is John he has always been called by his middle name. John and Thomas are prevalent in the Shoffners so I got Thomas as my ceremonial name and have always been addressed by my middle name. This practice is very common amongst my cousins. In addition to Andy's comment you may encounter the maternal surname as a given name of male or female offspring among the Palatinates which can be a brick wall breaker. Be mindful of variations of John which are numerous such as Johann, Hans, etc. often being assigned by the people who received the non English speaking Palatinates into the various ports. List from Palatinate ships usually are filled with British poor attempts to interpret the Germans names, so the photo copies immigrant signatures on the original documents can be a big help when jumping the pond for German roots. Be aware that many children died young, so a family would reboot a traditional name. This is not as usual as the German tradition, but it does occur.
posted by Phil Shoffner
Albright-2276 Dawn Albright
This is such good info. This will help me (and others I hope) avoid making some mistakes. I am taking baby steps in this area.
posted by Dawn Albright
Deborah (Duncan) Kaiser
In my Albright connections and other German lines, the same can be said for the females where siblings might be Anna Barbara and Anna Maria. It is a lot of fun at times trying to keep them straight, but it is possible if you compare enough records that indicate spouses or other related information.
posted by Deborah (Duncan) Kaiser
Schell-1258 Michael Schell
Since the conversation involves German Palatines specifically, your comments merit a few clarifications. First, as mentioned by Dave Rutherford, "middle" names were not used at that time and place. Second, although assigning the father's name as the middle name is a common practice (even today; I have my father's name as my middle name)--it was NOT common practice among the Palatine immigrants. Similarly, while the assignment of the mother's maiden name as a middle name is common in many times and places (my brother's middle name, for example)--it was NOT common practice among the Palatines. On Wikitree I have encountered quite a few profiles that state the mother's maiden name as a middle name, but when one goes to the primary sources, there is often no evidence to support it. This makes me think that the "mom's maiden name as middle name" is sometimes an ad hoc addition by genealogists.
posted by Michael Schell
Meyers-3406 Gina Meyers
The ad hoc addition of the mother’s LNAB is particularly exasperating when there is no proof that this even is the correct LNAB.
posted by Gina Meyers
edited by Gina Meyers
O'Dell-121 Lorraine O'Dell M.L.S.
This is a useful topic and exchange. I haven't had time to figure out or ask about these traditions. I have, in my family, both the Johannes/Johan and the Hans conventions; and have sometimes found it difficult to figure out who's who. So, if I understand this, my Hans Jurgen Besemer and Jr. the Hans is a diminutive of Johannes and his name is Jurgen (George). Sr. had a son Johannes Christoph (Christopher) while Jr. had sons Johannes Casparus (Caspar) and Johannes Christian (Christian). Caspar is most often shown as Casparus as is his son, Casparus, Jr. By Casparus, Jr.'s generation, the saint's name is dropped. In at least one case, one of his sons middle name is his mother's maiden name, Cornelius Osterhoudt Beesimer. The surname has so many variant spellings, even within my immediate family, I have no idea what it was originally. And, I have not yet discovered when or from where they came to the U.S.; I think they were later than the original Palatine Migration; my Mattice (Matheus) family were Palatines. Still, this discussion helps me sort out individuals.
posted by Lorraine O'Dell M.L.S.
Entrikin-5 Kie (Entrikin) Zelms
All these comments are really helpful. The Germany Project, which guides a lot of the Palatine Migration Project practices has a very detailed page here (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Germany_Project_Name_Field_Guidelines) regarding naming patterns and use of the name fields. It is very comprehensive. All those Johann's can really confuse research! You will also find that there are families where all the daughters apparent first names are Maria, or Anna.... But they are Maria Barbara, Maria Caterina, Maria Elisabetha, etc. Their "call names" are Barbara, Caterina and Elisabetha...

In looking for a will, for instance, my ancestor, Johann Peter Henricks is found as Peter Henricks. As Michael Schell mentioned also, Johannes is almost always known as simply Johannes/John. Saint's names are Johann Peter, Johann Adam, Johann Georg, etc. If someone has used Johannes with a second given name, i.e. Johannes Adam, Johannes should be Johann, likely an error as that would not be used by German families.

posted by Kie (Entrikin) Zelms
Melick-229 Christy Melick
I came across this database of images of Ships Lists of German Passengers, 1727-1808 from the Pennsylvania Department of State on the website for POWER LIBRARY: Pennsylvania Photos and Documents. I couldn't find it on your project's list of resources, so I thought y'all might be interested - it looks like images of the original copies of the captain's lists, oaths of allegiances, and oaths of abjurations.
posted by Christy Melick
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Thank you Christy. This appears to be a copy of the Strassburger books. We have links to them on our Resources page but this gives us an additional version of the lists.
posted by Dave Rutherford
Melick-229 Christy Melick
The beginning of the set of images I linked to is actual copies of the early pages of the Strassburger books - pages that give an index to the dates of arrival and number of the lists, along with introductory pages that give information about the lists. But if you go past that, it has images of the original handwritten captain's lists and the original signed copies of the oaths lists, so that you could see your ancestor's signature and/or verify the transcriptions from the Strassburger books.

So, they do seem to be the same lists, i.e. my relatives are in list 38A & B for both sources for the ship Mercury which arrived on 29 May 1835, but the Strassburger books give a transcription of these lists, while the source I listed appears to have images of the actual handwritten captain's list at image 197-8 and actual signatures for the oaths of allegiance on image 200 for this set of images. This POWER Library set of images does not seem to be searchable/indexed in any way though, so one could search the Strassburger book at say, the archive.org version, and then once you know which ship's list you're looking for, find the handwritten copy at the POWER Library collection.

posted by Christy Melick
Melick-229 Christy Melick
Another note: I now see that Vol. 2 of Strassburger does have a lot of the handwritten copies, but looking just at the list for the ship Mercury, it seems like they're not always complete when compared to the copies from POWER Library. For example, Strassburger Vol. 2 does not have 38A which contains lists of the women and children in addition to the men - it only has 38B and 38C, which just has the men. So it still may be worth consulting both. Or maybe I'm just still missing something from Strassburger.
posted by Christy Melick
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
OK, we'll add this link to our project's resources page. Thanks!
posted by Dave Rutherford
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
I've added a link and a note to the Strassburger entry on our Resources page.
posted by Dave Rutherford
O'Dell-121 Lorraine O'Dell M.L.S.
Livingston Manor -- Even now, after all these years, I get excited when I see this New York State name and forget that the original Livingston Manor was the enormous grant to Robert Livingston on the eastern side of the Hudson. My association with the name is the small town of current Livingston Manor, NY quite a bit west in present day Sullivan County, NY. Interestingly, some of the same Palatine immigrants to the historic Livingston Manor appear to have migrated west into what is now Sullivan County because I see many of those same surnames there, in Livingston Manor, where many of my ancestors lived. The Kittle book on Early Palatine Emigration is helpful with those migrations. I still drive up through there (Livingston Manor, Sullivan County, NY) and we have a family cemetery nearby. I have some reading to do....
posted by Lorraine O'Dell M.L.S.
Andrew Payzant
Not sure this is the "right place" to ask, but I wanted to let you all know that I have edited (a bit) the category page for the 60th (Royal American) Regiment of Foot - the 3rd and 4th battalions of this regiment were recruited in what is today Germany, and many of the soldiers (and in some cases their wives and children too) took advantage of the government's offer of land in Nova Scotia and settled at Guysborough, where some of their descendants may be found today.

If I have not done this properly, or if you have any suggestions to make this better, that would be awesome!

Category: 60th (Royal American) Regiment of Foot, American Revolution

posted by Andrew Payzant
Schell-1258 Michael Schell
These German mercenaries, who came from Hanover, would be considered Palatine Migrants by some of the criteria typically used to classify them but I am not sure about whether they would be part of the Palatine Migration Project. The Palatine arrival window typically used is 1709-1776, so formally a 1775 arrival would fit. Also, many of the birth villages of these mercenaries are in the Palatinate, so perhaps they all came to Hanover prior to departure? Were they men looking to get the heck out of Europe by joining the British army? These mercenaries were assembled with their English counterparts on the Isle of Wight, prior to being sent to Florida to fight in the South. Also, I suspect that mercenaries from Hanover departed from the port of Bremen or Hamburg, not Rotterdam (used by most Palatines). Almost all Palatines had settled in American Colonies (NY, PA, NC) before the War, whereas it looks like these guys were sent straight to the battlefronts and then settled only after the War in Nova Scotia. As for other suggested projects, I should think the Nova Scotia Project and/or Loyalist projects would be a good fit for many of the profiles in this category.
posted by Michael Schell
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Michael, your suspicions are correct. When we determined the parameters of the project, it was decided that the cutoff would occur at this point. Only those who settled in America prior to the outbreak of the Revolution are considered part of the project. German mercenaries that arrived as part of the British military and did not put down Loyalist roots until after the war are not part of our project's focus. There was some discussion of including them, but we have to draw the line somewhere.
posted by Dave Rutherford
Andrew Payzant
Thanks to both of you for your quick responses.
posted by Andrew Payzant
Clipper-15 Rayburn Clipper
Thanks Dave! Appreciate the effort.
posted by Rayburn Clipper
John Balow
Hi Rayburn, here’s a line I came across that might be useful: Henrich Barthel (1664-)

John

posted by John Balow
Willard Stluka
I am requesting a Palatine Migration Project badge so that I can find more information about my Bartels ancesters before 1790. At that time they were living in Pennsylvania. I have found Bartels in Germany before that date but have not been able to make any connection. Any information about this would be greatly appreciated. I will post any information I am able to find. Thank you.
posted by Willard Stluka
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Hi Willard,

I see that you are still a guest member. Once you have confirmed your membership on WikiTree, just send me a private message and I'll get you set up.

Dave

posted by Dave Rutherford
Glenn Major
Useful book, easy read for folks whose ancestors emigrated via Hudson/Mohawk valleys.

https://www.amazon.com/Becoming-German-1709-Palatine-Migration/dp/0801473446

posted by Glenn Major
Schell-1258 Michael Schell
Great book. The early parts have a nice discussion of the motives behind this mass emigration. It does a meta-analysis of most of the families described in the work of Hank Jones, Jr: who they were, where they came from, their occupations, and religions. The book is worth it for the maps alone.
posted by Michael Schell
Snider-1343 Rebecca Snider
I'm looking for a ship list for the Peggy - port of Philadelphia - landing on Oct 16, 1754. My 6th Great Grandfather (Paternal) was on this ship from Hessen, Germany. The only info I've found is "owned" by Ancestry and I do not belong to that website and don't plan to ever subscribe to it again. I was terribly disappointed with it.

My 6th G.Grandfather's name is Johan Georg Kegley (Goeckel in German). B-1743 D-c 1830 in Wythe, VA. I hope someone can help.

posted by Rebecca Snider
Schell-1258 Michael Schell
I found the list on Google books via this link. In scanning through the names, I see a number of men named Johann Geroge--but none of them have a surname like the ones you mentioned.

https://books.google.com/books?id=3DbJDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA638&lpg=PA638&dq=16+Oct+1754+Pennsylvania+German+Pioneers+Ship+Peggy&source=bl&ots=W4IxuuSO4T&sig=ACfU3U1xOJx4UN7eYR98FOdS9S010I6SoA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA4PuctfzpAhUfSTABHe0UDlIQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=16%20Oct%201754%20Pennsylvania%20German%20Pioneers%20Ship%20Peggy&f=false

posted by Michael Schell
Smith-62120 Ellen Smith
The source you found on Ancestry probably is this:
Strassburger, Ralph Beaver; edited by William John Hinke. Pennsylvania German Pioneers: A Publication of the Original Lists of Arrivals in the Port of Philadelphia from 1727 to 1808. Pennsylvania German Society, Norristown, PA, 1934. Reprinted by Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., Baltimore, 1980.

The hyperlink there will take you to a WikiTree page that has links to some free online sources for that book. Ancestry would like you to think that the content on their site is unique to Ancestry, but in many cases the material is also available somewhere else.

Check our Palatine Ships category page for more information about sources for immigration ship information.

posted by Ellen Smith
Schell-1258 Michael Schell
Your 6th G.Grandfather has a Wikitree page. The story that his Goeckel surname changed to Kegley is all over the internet, on many of his profiles. It is discussed as if it is proven, but the supporting evidence seems scant to none. The Geni profile has a long thread about the identity of this guy.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Kegley-40

posted by Michael Schell
Snider-1343 Rebecca Snider
Yes Sir, and thank you, I did have that profile and is where I found the name of the ship, Peggy. I fund a link to a book with signatures. I thank Janet Binkley also.

Sincerest gratitude, Rebecca

posted by Rebecca Snider
Janet (Ramage) Binkley
I expect he is the man on those 16 Oct 1754 ship lists for the Peggy who is given as Jorg Köchel on List B and Jerg Köchel on list C -- List C is the one where the immigrants signed the loyalty oath, so he signed that way himself (not with just an X). Oddly I don't find him on List A. This is from Strassburger & Hinke's transcriptions of the Philadelphia immigrant lists.
posted by Janet (Ramage) Binkley
Gehris-11 Roy Gehris
Rebecca,

I have copies of the Pennsylvania German Pioneers books. I have found your ancestor on the ship's list. If you want copies, send me your email address and I'll forward them to you. Roy G [email address removed]

posted by Roy Gehris
Snider-1343 Rebecca Snider
Thank you so much Roy, but several others have told me where to find the book and I have it on PDF file now. Your offer is most welcomed and appreciated !!

Sincerely grateful ! Rebecca

posted by Rebecca Snider
Evans-29543 Matthew Evans
I'm relatively new to WikiTree but not to genealogy. I'm so pleased to have found Wikitree and this project in particular. I've recent found out that one of my lines leads to ancestors who were some of the first settlers of Lunenburg, Nova Scotia who were mainly Palatine settlers. The specific surnames are ZWICKER, HECKMAN, HARNISH and SCHMIDT. Looking forward to collaborating and learning more about researching my Palatinate lines.
posted by Matthew Evans
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Welcome Matthew!

I'll send you a private message with more details about joining our project.

posted by Dave Rutherford
Willits-235 Kim Willits
I am happy to have found this group and have put in my request to join. My credentials start with Wilhelm Rupert NELLIS, born 15 Sep 1660 in Sitters, Obermoschel, Donnersbergkreis, Rheinland-Pfalz and descend through Christian, Robert, William Robert, Christian, John Alexander and Laura Nellis. Laura was my great grandmother. i have excerpts from "650 YearsThe City of Obermoschel 1349-1999" sent to me by the author Rainer Schlundt.

Glad to be aboard.

posted by Kim Willits
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Welcome Kim!

I've added you to our project.

posted by Dave Rutherford
Whitney-2036 Marion (Whitney) Martin
Are the German Settlers in Broad Bay (Waldoboro) Maine considered to be Palatinate Immigrants?
posted by Marion (Whitney) Martin
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Yes, I have come across a few of them and I believe that they qualify.

The project is open to all German speaking migrants who left continental Europe in the years from 1700 to the outbreak of the American Revolution.

posted by Dave Rutherford
Tooke-114 William Wallace Tooke
I did research years ago on my Palatine ancestors but I lost the paperwork. The ancestors of Jane (McIntosh) Grogan were Palatines: Clapper, Simon & Keller, as I remember. I found Palatine Families of New York - 1710, & More Palatine Families were wonderful sources. Does anyone have copies of these books for a quick lookup, and a scan of a few pages. Thanks...
posted by William Wallace Tooke
edited by William Wallace Tooke
Schell-1258 Michael Schell
Yes indeed, all three surnames are found in Jones. In total there is a lot of information. Clapper comes from Anna Agatha Klapperin (Hunter Lists # 374), widow of Johan Wilhelm Klapper. On Wikitree Johan Wilhelm Klapper is Klapper-103. In More Palatine Families (1991), Jones traces the Klapper line back to at least 1630 in Germany. Simon comes from Wilhelm Simon's Widow (#722). I couldn't find a Wikitree profile for Wilhelm but he should be easy to connect to Wikitree since he had 10 children and 73 grandchildren (according to Jones). Among those grandchildren the closest one I see as your likely ancestor Anna Maria Simon is an Anna Maria Simon born to Henrich, the 10th and youngest child of Wilhelm, born 17 Dec 1756, according to church books in Rhinebeck. Keller is Conrad Keller (Wikitree profile Keller-18), who married Maria Barbara Proper (Proper-4). The father of Conrad was Christian Keller (~1660-1710; Hunter Lists # 336), who died in 1710, at East Camp. I will add a skeleton of what is in Jones to Wikitree so that all 3 Palatines hook up to your tree.
posted by Michael Schell
edited by Michael Schell
Pirkle-96 DrO (Pirkle) Olmstead
I enjoyed this image about the language tree.

https://pin.it/6ATlMUY

posted by DrO (Pirkle) Olmstead
[Living Harlan]
Hello everyone, I added the project tag to my profile, I already am a member of the German Project and add two profiles both my Raub Ancestors, Raub-176 and Raub-31. I asked the profile manager of Peter Raub to add me to his Trusted List. I did not see the ship Loyal Judith of London whch arrived in Sep 1732 from Rotterdam included on the ships page. Was this date an error in the book "Names of Foreign Passengers who took the Oath of Allegiance"? The Ship Master was Robert Turpin.
posted by [Living Harlan]
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Raub-176 was born in Pennsylvania, so I switched him to category for Palatine Migrant's Children. Raub-31 as well as his siblings and parents are all part of the Palatine Migration. I will add them.

Strassberger shows the lists for the Loyal Judith in 1732 - https://archive.org/details/pennsylvaniagerm03penn_2/page/88/mode/2up The entire adult male part of the family appears to be on all three lists, although largely spread apart and with various spellings for their last name. And Peter is listed as 35, thus born in 1797?

posted by Dave Rutherford
[Living Harlan]
Hi Dave, thanks for the edits. I was reviewing the book about the Raub Family. It was mentioned that the Shoemaker book had Peter's arrival wrong, but now I have seen your comments, maybe the Shoemaker Book is correct. Michael Shoemaker wrote that Peter, probably the son of Paul, arrived on the ship "Harle" with Ralph Harle as Master, and took the Oath on 1 Sep 1736. The profile thaat was created used the information from the Raub Family History Book. I found Peter, ( as Rup) in The Pennsylvania-German Society Book, pp 160-161. He signed with an "X" so the name was interpreted by the creator of the list as Rup. It seems there was a lot of conjecture in both the Raub Family Book and the Shoemaker Book. I have just started my search for documentation.
posted by [Living Harlan]
Kouts-7 Tom Kouts
I would like to join this project. I have limited experience with researching older ancestors, but am willing to learn anything that would help. I am a descendant of KAUTZ-250 who immigrated 1752 and arrived on the ship "Nancy". My Kautz came from Baden, Baden-Wurttemberg, we think. The name has been changed with some using Kautz, Koutz, Kouts, Katz, Coutz and Couts. Please issue the German project badge. Thanks, Tom Kouts-7 A paper that shows the Kautz migration to the colonies and one group into Virginia, Kentucky and Tennessee. https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/17602311/the-kautz-family-couts-family-association
posted by Tom Kouts
edited by Tom Kouts
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Hi Tom,

I've added the Germany badge to your profile and added your name to our list of participants on our main project page. Ill send you a private message with further details.

Dave

posted by Dave Rutherford
John Aldrich
Need help with my Hosteter family roots. I have the first Hosteter coming to the "colonies" from somewhere in Germany. That would be John Hosteter Senior, born around 1781 in Germany. Married Catherine Sidle on May 12, 1808. He was apparently in the war of 1812 in the Virginia Militia. He died in 1866 and was buried in Greene County, Indiana. Any help would be appreciated
posted by John Aldrich
Chad Olivent
Is there a subcategory for the New Bern North Carolina settlement of 1709-1710?
posted by Chad Olivent
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Hi Greta,

Welcome to the project. I'll send you a private message.

posted by Dave Rutherford
Greta Moody
Hello. I'm descended from Firestone-144 and Firestone-51, both are part of this project. I think that I might have more ancestors that would fit under this project. I was recommended by someone on g2g to join this project so I am interested in joining the Palatine Migration project.
posted by Greta Moody
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Welcome T.C.

I'll send you a private message.

posted by Dave Rutherford
Duran-985 TC Duran
Hello.

My 7th ggf, Hans Leonard Hartzell, was part of the Palatine Migration. I'm currently building his profile Hartzell-471, and have found that he arrived on the Pink Plaisance in 1732. I'd love to be part of the project.

T.C.

posted by TC Duran
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Yes SJ, the wife should be included as well. I will add her.

It looks like we have duplicates here as well. And issues with names and spelling.

posted by Dave Rutherford
Baty-260 SJ Baty
I just removed the Penn Project template from https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hiadenburg-1 as she and her husband migrated in 1732/33. The husband is project boxed for Palatine Migration - I wonder if Catharine might also fit in?
posted by SJ Baty
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Hi Wendy,

All German speaking immigrants prior to the American Revolution are eligible for this project. So yes, anyone arriving from Germany in the 1730's belongs in the project.

posted by Dave Rutherford
Perry Hilbert
I have ancestors who were Dutch Mennonite refugees in Kreigsheim, Alzy, Palatinate and converted to be Quakers in the late 1670's . Penn himself met with the Kriegsheim Dutch Quaker families while traveling through the Palatine area. They left Kriegsheim and landed in Philadelphia in 1685. (Having already purchased Germantown Property while in Holland. the deeds were notarized there.) The were several families that came together. Hendricks, Schumacher, Umstatt and one or two others. Early records show they attended the Germantown Friends Meeting House. Sarah Hendricks married her cousin, a Schumacher and two of her sons became Mayors of Philadelphia in the 1730 to 1750 period. Penn Project? Palatine? or none of the above?
posted by Perry Hilbert
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Hi Perry,

We use the turn of the century as a rough dividing line between the Penn and Palatine projects. If they immigrated in 1685 then they should belong to the Penn project.

posted by Dave Rutherford
Skillings-87 Wendy (Skillings) Taylor
Hi all, I have recently adopted an ancestor who I think was part of the second wave of Palatine migrations from Germany, arriving in New Jersey around 1730. Some text books have assumed he was part of the first wave, but I have seen documents which dispute that. Would this still be the correct project for him and the wife and children who arrived with him?
posted by Wendy (Skillings) Taylor
Rutherford-448 Dave Rutherford
Welcome to our project Susan!

I'll send you a PM with the details.

posted by Dave Rutherford

Categories: Palatine Migration Project