Richard
Ogden
Born about in Bingley, Yorkshire, England
Ancestors 
Son of Richard Ogden
and [mother unknown]
and [mother unknown]Husband of
Ellen (Lupton) Ogden
— married
1 Sep 1618 in Keighley, Yorkshire, England
Descendants 
Father of
Richard Ogden and John Ogden
Died [date unknown]
[location unknown]
Profile managers:
England Project WikiTree 
[send private message], John Miller [send private message], and Cynthia Denise Griffin [send private message]
[send private message], John Miller [send private message], and Cynthia Denise Griffin [send private message]Profile last modified
| Created 26 Mar 2017
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The England Project has adopted this profile at the the request of the United States Project in order to maintain the PPP to prevent merges with his son of the same name. There is no record that this Richard came to America.
Contents |
Biography
Richard Ogden was a son of a man of the same name. Record of his birth or baptism has not been found. From his marriage date, he is estimated to have been born between 1593 and 1598. The will of his grandfather Richard Ogden, dated 25 January 1605/6, identifies him to receive 1-1/2 yards of cloth; the will calls him "Richard Ogden son of Richard Ogden unto whom he was grandfather."[1]
Richard Ogden of Yorkshire married Ellen Lupton at Keighley, St. Andrews, Yorkshire, on September 1, 1618.[1][2][3]
Research Notes
The Findagrave memorial for Richard indicates that he did immigrate to North America, and settled early in Southampton, New York as did his brother-in-law, Thomas Lupton.[4] Recent research, found in the “Ogden Family of Oxenhope” article,[1] does not support the Findagrave detail. No indisputable record of this Richard having emigrated to America has been found. But just as important, there is also no record of him remaining in England after 1639, which is shortly before his brother John first surfaced in Stamford in 1641. Richard's sons were then both underage (Richard, 20 and John, 16). They most likely came over with their uncle. It is possible that their father came as well, and any records of him in America have been conflated with those of his son of the same name.
Previously, all analysis assumed that only one Richard was present in America. Confusion and speculation over the relationship of that Richard Ogden with John Ogden the Pilgrim prevailed. Fred Hart, in his 2015 article “Pressing Rewind, Reconsidering John Ogden of Rye,”[5] weighed in on the subject, concluding that:
- “Richard Ogden of Stamford, Hempstead, and Fairfield was probably not a brother of Mr. John Ogden as claimed by Savage, Wheeler, Jacobus, and others, since all of his records appear to have been those of a much younger man, and he appears in the records to have had a lesser status.
- “Richard Ogden may have been a brother of John Ogden of Rye . . . on the basis of age and their individual associations with Mr. John Ogden. However, this remains speculative since no direct associations between Richard of Fairfield and John of Rye have been found in any original records. The precise relationships of Richard Ogden [of Fairfield] to either of the two John Ogdens are therefore still unknown.”
Hart was on the right track, and had it been understood that there may have been two Richard Ogdens in America at the time, Hart would probably have successfully reconciled the confusion. The confusion primarily stems from conflicting views of Richard’s age. Early colonial records seem to indicate an older man than expected. Later records seem to indicate a man younger than expected.
Now that it is clear that Richard Ogden of Fairfield was the son of this Richard, there is significant circumstantial evidence that both the father and the son immigrated to America with John Ogden, the Pilgrim and Thomas Lupton, brother and brother-in-law of this Richard.
“Ogden Family of Oxenhope” presented a version of the “One Richard” scenario, in this case, that only the younger Richard (Ogden-496) came to America. This is along the lines postulated by Fred Hart. The goal of the authors of this article was to firmly establish the origins of these Ogdens and put Anjou’s false genealogy to rest once and for all. A conscious decision was made to not argue the “two Richards” scenario, as that would distract from that goal. Footnote #254 in this article sets the stage for further analysis:
- “It should be noted that there is a troubling record found in the History of Long Island by Benjamin J. Thompson. Thompson writes that the Court of Sessions, held at Jamaica for the North Riding, 2 Apr 1667, “Ordered at the same court, that Richard Ogden and John Ludlum shall take order of every man’s arms and ammunition within fower [four] days after the end of this weeke, and for neglect herein shall pay five shillings a man, and what palpable and aparant defects they shall find, shall return to the authority of the plase [place]” (Benjamin F. Thompson, History of Long Island . . ., 2nd ed., vol. 1 [New York: Gould, Banks, and Co., 1843], 271). As it is unlikely that Richard of Fairfield would have been ordered to such a task by the court on Long Island, this record opens the possibility that [this] Richard Ogden may have also immigrated with his sons Richard and John and his brother John [the Pilgrim]. If so, then the record for [the son] Richard in America has been conflated with that of his father. However, the purported 1667 record has been discounted thus far by Ogden researchers due to Thompson’s occasional penchant for inaccuracy in his statement of a record (see, for example, Walter C. Krumm, “Who was the Reverend Richard Denton,” RECORD 117 [1986]: 215n14). The original North Riding Court Records no longer exist, so there is no hope of clarification from that source. The authors anticipate providing further analysis of the situation in a subsequent article.” [1]
Thompson, as a secondary source, is valid evidence indicating two Richard Ogdens, if Thompson can be rehabilitated (there is evidence he got a bum rap). Unfortunately, the other known records on Long Island are hopelessly conflated, as both men would have been there at the same time. Records before and after Long Island can be parsed with common sense, for example, which is more likely:
- The Dutch issuing a contract for the “stone church” to a 21-year-old co-contractor, or a 48-year-old?
- Fairfield recruiting an experienced town miller who was 41-years old or one who was 67-years old?
- The Connecticut Assembly approving a freeman who was 47-years old or was 73-years old?
- Would a child be born to a 52-year-old man or a 78-year-old man?
In genealogical research, there are multiple instances where the records of a father and son with the same name have been conflated in the absence of better information. Better research and a little thought usually straighten it out.
DNA
- Paternal relationship is confirmed through Y-chromosome DNA test results on Family Tree DNA. Louis Ogden, FTDNA kit # 68553, and half his 11th cousin 1x removed, Aussie Ken, FTDNA kit # SI5949, match at a Genetic Distance of 9 on 693 markers, thereby confirming their direct paternal lines back to their most-recent common ancestor who is Richard Ogden, the 11x great grandfather of Louis Ogden and 10x great grandfather of Aussie Ken.
Sources
- ↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 Louis G. Ogden and Brent M. Owen, "Ogden Family of Oxenhope: The Probable Yorkshire Origin of John and Richard Ogden, Early Settlers of Stamford, Connecticut, and Proprietors of Hempstead, New York", The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record (New York Genealogical and Biographical Society: 2018-19) v.150, no. 1, pp. 70-72.
- ↑ "England Marriages, 1538–1973 ," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N23R-63N : 10 February 2018), Richard Ogden and Ellen Lupton, 01 Sep 1618; citing Keighley, York, England, reference , index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 599,997.
- ↑ With image: "West Yorkshire, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1512-1812", Yorkshire Parish Records. Leeds, England: West Yorkshire Archive Service. Ancestry Record WYorkPre1813 #47093299.
- ↑ Find A Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 21 January 2019), memorial page for Richard Ogden (1595–1669), Find A Grave Memorial no. 138408315, citing Prospect Cemetery, Jamaica, Queens County, New York, USA ; Maintained by Charles Boetsch (contributor 48409474). [No grave marker, no sources.]
- ↑ New York Genealogical and Biographical Record, 146(2015):37
- The Luptons of North Carolina, Shirley D Edwards & Gladys I Sadler, (self-published - 1982).
- Keighley Parish Records, Keighley, Yorkshire, England.
Sponsored Search by Ancestry.com
DNA Connections
It may be possible to confirm family relationships with Richard by comparing test results with other carriers of his Y-chromosome or his mother's mitochondrial DNA. Y-chromosome DNA test-takers in his direct paternal line on WikiTree:
It may be possible to confirm family relationships with Richard by comparing test results with other carriers of his Y-chromosome or his mother's mitochondrial DNA. Y-chromosome DNA test-takers in his direct paternal line on WikiTree:
- Louis Ogden
:
Family Tree DNA Y-DNA Test 700 markers, haplogroup R-BY40739, FTDNA kit #68553 - SD Ellington :
Family Tree DNA Y-DNA Test 700 markers, haplogroup R-FGC73960, FTDNA kit #MK44957
- John Ogden :
Family Tree DNA Y-DNA Test 700 markers, haplogroup R-BY40739, FTDNA kit #979878
-
~0.78%
Joseph Budd :
23andMe
Have you taken a DNA test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.
- Need Evidence of Richard Ogden on Long Island Jun 11, 2022.
Featured National Park champion connections: Richard is 10 degrees from Theodore Roosevelt, 17 degrees from Stephanus Johannes Paulus Kruger, 9 degrees from George Catlin, 15 degrees from Marjory Douglas, 23 degrees from Sueko Embrey, 11 degrees from George Grinnell, 23 degrees from Anton Kröller, 10 degrees from Stephen Mather, 19 degrees from Kara McKean, 15 degrees from John Muir, 14 degrees from Victoria Hanover and 24 degrees from Charles Young on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.
Categories: England Managed Profiles, Pre-1700 PPP | Bingley, Yorkshire
Previously, all analysis has been based on only one Richard being present. Confusion and speculation over the relationship of that Richard Ogden with John Ogden the Pilgrim has been rampant. Generally, it was accepted, without evidence, that they were brothers. Fred Hart, in his 2015 article “Pressing Rewind, Reconsidering John Ogden of Rye,” (NYGBR 146(2015):37), weighed in on the subject, concluding that:
• “Richard Ogden of Stamford, Hempstead, and Fairfield was probably not a brother of Mr. John Ogden as claimed by Savage, Wheeler, Jacobus, and others, since all of his records appear to have been those of a much younger man, and he appears in the records to have had a lesser status.
• “Richard Ogden may have been a brother of John Ogden of Rye . . . on the basis of age and their individual associations with Mr. John Ogden. However, this remains speculative since no direct associations between Richard of Fairfield and John of Rye have been found in any original records. The precise relationships of Richard Ogden [of Fairfield] to either of the two John Ogdens are therefore still unknown.”
Hart was on the right track, and had it been understood that there may have been two Richard Ogdens in America at the time, Hart would probably have successfully reconciled the confusion. The confusion primarily stems from conflicting views of Richard’s age. Early colonial records seem to indicate an older man than expected. Later records seem to indicate a man younger than expected.
The “Ogden Family of Oxenhope” article (source #1) presents a version of the “One Richard” scenario, in this case, that only the younger Richard (Ogden-496) came to America. This is along the lines postulated by Fred Hart in his 1915 article. The goal of the authors of that article was to firmly establish the origins of these Ogdens and put Anjou’s false genealogy to rest once and for all. A conscious decision was made to not argue a “two Richards” scenario, as that would distract from that goal. Footnote #254 [NYGBR 150 (2019)149] in the article is the authors attempted to set the stage for further analysis:
“It should be noted that there is a troubling record found in the History of Long Island by Benjamin J. Thompson. Thompson writes that at the Court of Sessions, held at Jamaica for the North Riding, 2 Apr. 1667, “Ordered at the same court, that Richard Ogden and John Ludlum shall take order of every man’s arms and ammunition within fower [four] days after the end of this weeke, and for neglect herein shall pay five shillings a man, and what palpable and aparant defects they shall find, shall return to the authority of the plase [place]” (Benjamin F. Thompson, History of Long Island . . ., 2nd ed., vol. 1 [New York: Gould, Banks, and Co., 1843], 271). As it is unlikely that Richardb-1 Ogden [Ogden-496] of Fairfield would have been ordered to such a task by the court on Long Island, this record opens the possibility that Richarda Ogden [Ogden-3236] may have also immigrated with his sons (Richardb-1 [Ogden-496]and Johnb-1 [Ogden-90]) and his brother (Johna-1) [Ogden-588]. If so, then the record for Richardb-1 [Ogden-496] in America has been conflated with that of his father. However, the purported 1667 record has been discounted thus far by Ogden researchers due to Thompson’s occasional penchant for inaccuracy in his statement of a record (see, for example, Walter C. Krumm, “Who was the Reverend Richard Denton,” RECORD 117 [1986]: 215n14). The original North Riding Court Records no longer exist, so there is no hope of clarification from that source. The authors anticipate providing further analysis of the situation in a subsequent article.”
This secondary source is a citable record indicating two Richard Ogdens, if Thompson can be rehabilitated (I think there is evidence he got a bum rap). Other records on Long Island are probably hopelessly conflated if both men were there at the same time. Records before and after Long Island can be parsed with common sense, for example, which is more likely:
• The Dutch issuing a contract for the “stone church” to a 20-year-old co-contractor, or a 48-year-old? • Fairfield recruiting an experienced town miller who was 41-years old or one who was 67-years old? • The Connecticut Assembly approving a freeman who was 47-years old or was 73-years old? • Would a child be born to a 52-year-old man or a 78-year-old man?
In our genealogical research, we have all seen instances where the records of a father and son with the same name have been conflated in the absence of better information. Better research and a little thought usually straighten it out.
It does seem inherently improbable that Richard remained in England while his minor sons came over with their uncle. As noted there is no record of Richard in England after the probable date of John's departure. Aside from the general sketchiness of records there is a hiatus of perhaps three years between the departure of the Odgen party and their first appearance in Stamford. It is possible that the elder Richard died over here during that period.
I do think that the recorded dates cited on balance favor the younger Richard. He was actually 21 when the church contract was signed in May 1642, certainly eligible for junior partnership. Relocating to Fairfield to start a new enterprise is perhaps more likely for the younger man. Freeman at 47 is plausible and child at 52 more probable than 78.
It appears that the Thompson record is the only evidence clearly indicating presence of the older Richard. The Louis Ogden (related?) and Brent Owen article remains the last word. I do not find reference to this question in their subsequent article on the "Stamford Pioneers" from West Yorkshire (NYGBR, 2020, 151:2-4). It is not clear to me what avenues of research remain to firmly resolve the question.