Jan Hendrik Vorster

Hi

Have you registered for the April 2023 Connect-a-Thon yet?

Please join the South African Springboks is our quest we will have lots of fun while we upgrade our South African family

The link to follow is : https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1553800/have-you-registered-for-the-april-2023-connect-a-thon-yet?show=1555665#c1555665

Looking forward to see you there

Warm regards

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Cape_of_Good_Hope_-_Kaap_de_Goede_Hoop_%281652-1806%29_Project

Hi Jan

I did ask you to give me some time to respond to the email send to me by you. This weekend is a bit busy with the source a thon.

You have to remember that not all people adding profiles to Wiki Tree is as passionate as you and I an Phillip, for this reason we had to get common ground and not make things to difficult. I will email you and explained all the dissision that was made way back and what the reasons for that was Thanks Susan

In response to Philip's below quoted posting on Wikitree I respond:

He states that "Cape of Good Hoop" Project - is short for "Dutch Cape Colony project". If these are identical, why do you have them listed as 2 projects? He also states: "'Dutch Cape Colony' we chose because it must indicate the Cape as under VOC control." This is a 'made up later' name from an English perspective It could have been done by agreeing on the English name: "Cape of Good Hope", which would be correct (as it is merely a translation of the Dutch (Portuguese) name).

He did not explain the following: (as It is my understanding of Wikitree protocol) " the name of a place should be entered as it was at the time of the event" " a place name for an event should preferably be in the language of the person for whom the profile is created".

I have now found it and quote exactly from Wikitree's own guidelines:

"Here are the standards adopted by the WikiTree community for what to enter in birth, death, and marriage location fields. Our guiding principle is the same as the one for Name Fields: "use their conventions instead of ours."

Applied to locations, this means using place names in native languages and using the names that people at the time used, even if they now no longer exist.

Place names, and even boundaries, change over time. They also have different names in different languages. We aim to use the name that was used by the people in that place, at the time of the event you're recording. This standard is often difficult or even impossible to apply, but it is an ideal that members from all over the world can agree upon.

For example, when recording the birth place of someone born in Port Royal, Acadia, in the 1600s, you should use "Port-Royal, Acadie" rather than the English "Port Royal, Acadia" or the present day "Port Royal, Nova Scotia, Canada"."

Therefor, I now insist that the above be adhered to.

I am very unhappy that my ancestor's profiles, where I have original documents stating the place to be "Cabo de Goede Hoop", are being changed to "Dutch Cape Colony" by Philip.

My original comment, to which Philip posted his reply as below, follows: My name is Jan Hendrik Vorster-1200 (1944). I am a direct descendant (b3c9d1e1f7g2h6i1) of Jan Vorster who arrived from Bern, Switzerland at the Cape in 1717. In 1977 I spent many days in the Cape archives (State & Church) researching my family tree. I took copies of all birth, marriage, death, etc records. (Then one could still do it yourself). Then, in 2016 I started placing my, very extended, tree on genealogy sites. When I discovered Wikitree I was glad to find that it insisted that the name of a place should be entered as it was at the time of the event and not as at a later time or as it currently is. (i.e. Someone born in 1917 in Nelspruit, Transvaal would not be entered as born in Mbombela, Mpumalanga, etc.).

"Cabo de Boa Esperanza" was discovered by Bartolomeu Dias in 1488. When it was settled by people from the Netherlands in 1652 they directly translated the name to "Cabo de Goede Hoop" or "de Caep de Goede Hoop". This was what people who lived there at the time called it. Even though new arrivals then would also speak French, German, Swiss German, etc. the official language was Dutch. Another Wikitree convention, is that a place name for an event should preferably be in the language of the person for whom the profile is created, which mostly means as given above. Since they are direct translations of "Cabo de Goede Hoop", the names "Kaap die Goeie Hoop" and "Cape of Good Hope" would of course also be acceptable to me. Presumably we are all in agreement about this? My problem, therefor, is with the use of the term "Dutch Cape Colony" in the context of an event (birth, marriage, death, etc.). The people who lived there NEVER called it by that name (in any language). It is a 'made up later' name from an English perspective. It is like calling "Nieuw Amsterdam" by the name "Dutch American Colony" or referring to Hong Kong as "British China Colony". I formally request that the term "Dutch Cape Colony" be removed from the list of preferred event place names. (Therefor from the "Cape" column of the "South Africa Country Naming" table). However, it's use in other contexts, i.e. the "Dutch Cape Colony Project", I have no problem with (since it distinguishes it from the "Cape of Good Hope Project"), etc.

Hi Jan, vir wat betref die beleid van ons projekt(e) - as dit gaan om die COGH ("Cape of Good Hoop" Project - kort vir "Dutch Cape Colony project") - dit was 'n keuse wat ons gemaak het, om praktiese redes. WikiTree breed word die doopnaam ook breed aangehou. Om te sorg dat duplikate in 1 profiel saamgesmelt word, hou ons die doopname aan.

Vir wat betref die plekname. Oor die algemeen het ons (die oprigters van die projek, met algemene saamstem van die projeklede) besluit dat Caep de Goede Hoop die pleknaam is vir Kaapstad en die skiereiland tot ca. 1785 toe vir die eerste keer melding gemaak was van Kaapstad. Suid-Afrika het toe nog nie bestaan nie. In die verlede het ons dit probeer dui deur [South-Africa] in die data velde agteraan te sit, maar ons moes dit verander omdat dit nie breed WikiTree protokol is nie (in die bio's is dit wel toegestaan). Ons is nog steeds besig om dit te verwyer. 'Dutch Cape Colony' het ons gekies omdat dit moes aangee (WikiTree is van oorsprong 'n Engelse platform) dat hiermee bedoel word die Kaap soos onder VOC beheer. Die 'Kaapkolonie' / 'Cape Colony' grofweg (vir projekdoeleinden) is bedoel vir die profiele na 1806. Asseblief oorleg eers voordat jy COGH projek-plekname sommer verander. Vir verder informasie vra die projekleiers Susan en Ronel waarom die keuses gemaak is soos dit gemaak is.

Regarding spelling of names: your comment on the following would be interesting. In chronological order the docs show: 1717 Hans Voster; 1718 Hans Vorster; 1720 Johannis Foster; (employment contracts) 1722 Jan Vorster (Aletta birth); 1723 Jan Voster (citizenship appl.); 1724 Jan Vorst (Jan birth); 1725 Jan Vorster (Citizens roll); 1726 Jan Voster (Barent birth); 1746 Barend Vorster (mariage); 1765 Baarent Voster (Johannis Stephanus birth); 1785 Johannes Stephanus Vorster (marriage); 1843 Johannis Step Vorster (AC du Plessis death notice). Later records mostly show Vorster spelt correctly. (If a name is mis-spelt, whether because of carelessness or phonetic reasons, it is still wrong).

As there are no birth, marriage or death records for him, how did most genealogists agree on the name for Jan Vorster and with guestimated dates 1695-1730?; with which I also agree and I regularly have to correct false exact death dates (and attributed parents) on other sites. Ek het later besef jy is op hoogte met middel naam nie-gebruik protokol.

You also wrote to the other Research Coordinator the following: "To [...] I am the 9th generation Vorster in SA. Trough the centuries the Vorsters have been plagued by the scourge of careless scribes leaving out the middle "r" in our last name. (It still happens today, more often than not). Remember that from the 17th to the 19th centuries most people were illiterate, so that birth, marriage & death records were written by scribes (often carelessly)." Please be aware that the spelling was mainly phonetic in those days. The scribes were not necessarily 'careless'. Also - the protocol is to take the spelling exactly as can be read in the transcription of the baptism image. See Process under # 5 (A final LNAB is decided).

Dankie vir die volgende boodskap van gister: "Aan Philip van der Walt (en andere): Die Suid Afrika afdeling van Wikitree gebruik nie "Middle name" nie. Sien: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:South_Africa . Alle voorname gaan in die eerste blokkie." As jy egter na die changes tab gaan kyk sal jy sien dat ek reeds op 24 Sep 2020 dit verander het met uitleg. Tydens die merges op 'n later oomblik is dit weer verander. Ek is goed op hoogte van die SAR en die COGH protokolle.

Hi Jan,

Thanks for taking the Pre-1700 Quiz!

Because pre-1700 ancestors are usually shared by many descendants, collaborating with members of the projects which coordinate them is essential.

Use the Pre-1700 Projects list to find one which best fits your research focus, whether time period, location, or topic. Review the project pages to learn about resources and guidelines as well as how to collaborate with the project members.

Can't find what you're looking for? Let me know, and I can make some suggestions! :-)

Remember to cite reliable sources in pre-1700 profiles you manage, or edit. (See:https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Pre-1700_Profiles#Cite_reliable_sources).

David ~ Pre-1700 Greeter

P.S. If links do not work in an email from WikiTree, try them from the comment section on your profile page.

Baie Welkom by WikiTree Jan

Hier is die hoof blad van die Suid Afrikaanse groep. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:South_Africa Lees gerus omtrent ons manier van doen om latere regstellings te vermy. Kyk ook gerus na al die hulp bladsye i.v.m. bronne onder "research" om jou met jou navorsing te help. Vra gerus as jy enige hulp nodig het ons staan graag saam :-P Ronel Olivier namens die Suid Afrikaanse groep op WikiTree

Hi Jan

As you have been a member of WikiTree for a few weeks now, I thought I would check in to see how you are getting on with the site.

Has the New Member How-To been helpful, or left you with any questions?

I am here to help with any problems or queries you may have. To contact me, be sure to use the "reply" link for this comment so that I will be notified. Alternatively, you can click my name to visit my profile, where you can send a private message, or post a comment on my profile page.

Sometimes links don't work in emails. If that's happened to you, check the public comments on your profile. The links will work from there.

Azure Rae ~ WikiTree Greeter

PS Have you noticed that you can click on Tags to see others interested in that surname, or location?

Hi Jan

What is your connection with Johan Hendrik Breytenbach? He was my great uncle (Kol. Giel) Regards Iain McFadyen

Hi Jan,

Thanks for volunteering! You are now a confirmed member of the WikiTree community, and can start adding your family. Let me know if you have any questions.

Since WikiTree is different from other genealogy sites, we have a guided tour for new members at New Member How-To. Feel free to work through the How-Tos at your own pace.

Once you add profiles to WikiTree they become searchable and in my experience persons interested in these profiles will contact you and may provide further information to expand your family tree.

Great to have you on board, enjoy, and good luck growing your branches.

Ludwig :)

Welcome!

This is just a note to say hi and to let you know that I'm available to answer questions about joining WikiTree.

To contact me, be sure to use the "reply" link for this comment so that I will be notified. You can also click my name to send a private message, or post a comment, on my profile page.

Ludwig ~ WikiTree Greeter

P.S. If links do not work in an email from WikiTree, try them from the comment section of your profile page.