| Urse (Abitot) d'Abitot is managed by the Medieval Project. Pre-1500 certified? Join: Medieval Project Discuss: Medieval |
Contents |
URSE "The BEAR - The NOTORIOUS SHERIFF" d'ABITOT - BARON of SALWARPE and ELMLEY - HEREDITARY VISCOUNT of WORCESTERSHIRE - CASTELIAN of WORCESTER CASTLE - CONSTABLE in the KING'S HOUSEHOLD
Urse of Abettot, or of Worcester, was an Anglo Norman administrator and land holder in England during the time of the Norman dynasty (1066-1135), who was especially important during the time of William II (William Rufus). One of the most important positions he held was as sheriff of Worcestershire, for which he was appointed by the king.[2]
At the time of Domesday Book in 1086 he was a tenant-in-chief in the counties of Hereford, Gloucester, Warwick, and Worcester, and also held other lands as a tenant lord.[2] His tenancy in chief was the basis of the feudal barony Salwarpe.[3]
According to Loyd, his first recorded occurrence in England is in 1067.[4][5] However he is an example of a person in this generation whose family can be traced back to France with reasonable confidence. (See below.)
Sanders reports that he was sheriff of Worcestershire from about 1069 until his death, and that he died in 1108.[3] Keats-Rohan accepts the estimation of Sanders for the death date.[6] It was in 1108 that he was succeeded in his lands and office by his son Roger.[2]
Like many of the first Anglo-Norman sheriffs, and indeed secular lords before 1066, Urse was criticized by clerics for his incursions upon old church land rights. He is for example mentioned in "Hemming's Cartulary".[7] William of Malmesbury recorded a rhyming curse made upon him by Ealdred, the Archbishop of York, for encroaching upon the cemetery of Worcester Cathedral priory: "Hattest thu Urs, haue thu Godes kurs" (you are called Urse, you have god's curse).[2][8]
As explained by Keats-Rohan, apart from his own lands in the barony of Salwarde, he appears to have inherited lands and offices in England from his brother Robert the dispenser (or Robert the bursar) after Domesday Book in 1086. Lands from both of the two brothers were inherited by the co-heiresses of Urse.[6]
That Urse was heir of his brother Robert within his own lifetime, and in turn had a second daughter who married a Marmion, was proposed by J.H. Round in his Feudal England.[9] It is now accepted for example as the most likely scenario by Complete Peerage, Sanders, and Keats-Rohan as the most likely way in which the Marmion family shared the inheritance of Robert the bursar (or dispensator) together with the Beauchamps.[10]
Another probable brother of Urse was Osbert d'Abetot, who was sheriff of Worcester after Urse's son Roger. Osbert was probably the ancestor of the d'Abetots known from records in Worcestershire in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, and who are associated with the places Croome d'Abitot and Redmarley d'Abitot.[2]
Modern historians believe that he had three children.[6][2]
Loyd proposed that there is evidence from France of another son in France, Robert de Abetot, possibly also known as Robert fitz Urse. (See Origins section below.)[4] However Keats-Rohan suggests that this might simply be Urse's known brother, who she refers to as Robert Dispensator.[13]
His name, which is not unique in this period, simply means "bear" in French (Latin Ursus/Urso etc, Old French Urs/Ors, modern French Ours). As a sign of their descent from him, his descendants the Beauchamps used the bear as a symbol.[2]
"Urs" and "Ours" are the first known styling's of this name found in early document's. "Urso" and "Urse" appear to be later influence's of Latin and Norman French, on the language in his time.
That he bore the rampant bear cognizance shield, or was at least honored as such, in the frieze on Worcester Cathedral, in the Arms of the Beauchamp family thereafter, and the flags, seals, etc., of the County of Worcestershire itself, is undeniable. Additionally, the Fitz Urse line, who also bore Arms with a bear as one of the charges, have been suggested as being related to Urso, although this is unsubstantiated.
However it is not an extremely unusual name (there were several others in Domesday Book) and names based on animals (such as wolves and eagles) were more generally not very unusual until this period, when Frankish names were still much more common in the nobility than "Christian" names, such as John.
Loyd showed that there is only one Abbetot in Normandy, and at this place there is record of the name Urse being used by a local landed family.[4] Urse was probably born there.[2]
In modern France Saint-Jean d'Abbetot, has postcode 76430 and is part of the commune of La Cerlangue, on the north side of the Seine near the river mouth and the harbour at Le Havre. It is near Tancarville.
These lords of Abbetot were the chamberlains of Tancarville in this time, and they appear with the Tancarvilles in some records.
Urse's Domesday lands (1086), the basis of the barony of Salwarde which mainly went to the Beauchamps:
Urse's brother Robert's lands (1086), later apparently inherited by Urse, and then mostly to the Marmions:
See also:
Have you taken a DNA test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.
Urse is 34 degrees from Zendaya Coleman, 37 degrees from Sting Sumner, 28 degrees from Josh Brolin, 32 degrees from Timothée Chalamet, 29 degrees from José Ferrer, 29 degrees from Frank Herbert, 27 degrees from Richard Jordan, 33 degrees from David Lynch, 29 degrees from Virginia Madsen, 31 degrees from Charlotte Rampling, 35 degrees from Patrick Stewart and 29 degrees from Denis Villeneuve on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.
A > Abitot | D > d'Abitot > Urso (Abitot) d'Abitot
Categories: Sheriffs of Worcestershire | 11th Century | Domesday Book | Early Barony of Salwarpe | Estimated Birth Date
It is really important that in a collaborative environment we stick to the style and standards that WikiTree has set, particularly those related to the structure of biographies. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Biographies. Consequently, I think that section about the estimated date, should revert to the accepted WikiTree Estimated date template, and the explanation perhaps go under a Birth subheading.
Also, I realise that this biography really needs an overhaul, in respect to the fact that it refers to sources, rather than correctly citing them. Several primary sources were also mentioned in the G2G question about this profile, but never added. However I am quite concerned about the paragraph under the Pre-Conquest Normandie heading, which doesn't refer to, or cite, a source at all, which makes it really difficult to assess the reliability of the information.
Concerning the opening paragraph in bold all-caps I would suggest that a more normal way to list titles and offices would be in normal text, and citing a source like CP.
I also think our focus on the bear implications of the name, and the differences between French and Latin forms, and later heraldry, is a bit questionable. The importance of this is not so clear, and from other profiles in this period we know that discussions about name variants can get very long. Does anyone want to try to make something simpler and/or find a good source citation explaining the importance?
I think the references come from British History Online's Worcs VCH, and it is Habington, Surv. of Worcs. published 1899 https://archive.org/details/asurveyworceste00amphgoog/page/n11
Fox-Davies is considered one of the early experts on heraldry and you can read his view that there were no examples of armorial bearings in this period. https://archive.org/details/completeguidetoh00foxdrich/page/16
If you would like us to believe your alternate view, then please provide the evidence or the experts supporting that view.
There are multiple scenes in which two or more individuals are shown bearing the same arms, same tincture, same charges [sic], indicating a fuedal (prob) or familial (poss) connection, which is part of the basis of what heraldry is.
These connections are virtually undenible as shown, obviously intended to show heraldry [sic], as we now know it.
The best guess is that the weavers were advised by soldiers who were present at the battle, as to the events that occured before them. We don't know who actually supplied the information that was used to create these scenes, but are we really to believe that these obvious examples of heraldic connection, were just thrown in by the weavers, in some flight of artistic fancy?
In relation to the Bayeux Tapestry there is this quote "no individual is depicted twice bearing the same arms, nor are any of the descendants of the various persons depicted known to have borne devices resembling those in the tapestry" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraldry
HERALDRY
Suggesting that there was 'no' heraldry at this time is, I believe, just a bit shortsighted, especially given the said Bayeux Tapestry, on which there are, in fact, multiple examples of heraldry (I stopped copying the pertinent panels at about a dozen, when it dawned on me that this would not be the right forum to share same), as well as other examples, that appear to specifically depict a mixed bag of individuals or clans (the Viking ship panels showing multiple round shields, of varying tinctures, attached along the rails, and at least one other panel, showing soldiers bearing these same round shields, all again of the same different tinctures.
(cont)
That Urso bore his rampant bear, as shown on the cathedral frieze, is I think, rather solid.
The Arms borne by the various branches of the d'Abitot families were several, only a couple of which are shown here so far (a dozen have been identified), but other than possibly FitzUrse, from whom they hail is still pretty much up in the air. Urso, Osbert and Robert are the prime candidates, but the line also continued in Normandie, so those folks could also possibly be the originators of any or all of the branches.
(cont)
The use of heraldry in helping to determine descent is often very important, and needs to be presented on WikiTree. Other researchers need to be able to see these potential connections, but I haven't yet figured out the ideal location for them.
Attempting to complete a line has always been something I've strived to do in genealogy, and heraldry has been an extremely helpful tool for this, especially when available, being able to follow the land holdings, tenancies, etc.. Sometimes these are all we have ...
Any/all questions or comments welcome and appreciated.
posting these backwards for easier reading