Edwin ap Gronwy (1017 - abt. 1104)

Born 1017 in Tegeingl, Wales

Ancestors

Descendants

Died about 1104 at about age 87 in Northop, Tegeingl, Wales

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Biography

Name and Parents

• Edwin ap Gronwy ^[1]

Edwyn ap Gronwy was previously linked to Grono ab Owain and Ealdgyth of Mercia as parents. While there is some degree of confidence that Edwyn's father was named Gronwy, there is insufficient evidence as to who the parents actually were. Therefore Edwyn is no longer linked to parents.

Stewart Baldwin has stated, "It seems to me that the logical conclusion is that NONE of the theories about the origin of Edwin of Tegeingl have been backed up by good evidence, that the parentage of Edwin of Tegeingl should be stated as "unknown", and that even stating that Edwin of Tegeingl "might have been" or "was perhaps" [some specified parentage] is a misleading overstatement of the situation."^[2]

Therefore his parents must be considered unknown. See Research Notes.

1017 Birth Year Estimation

Wolcott estimates his birth year as 1017. ^[3] Such a date is consistent with a 1046 estimated marriage year (age 29). Another source gives a birth year of about 1045 in Coed y mynydd, Caerwys, Flintshire, Wales^[4], which would make Edwin much younger than his bride, and require a later marriage year.

Residence

Wolcott reports that he is said to have resided at Trefedwen in Caerwys parish in the commote of Rhuddlan. ^[3]

Another suggested place of residence is Plas Maengwynedd, said to have been the residence of an ancient family, a collateral branch of the Lloyrd. ^[5]. Plas Maengwynedd is southwest of Llangollen and northwest of Oswestry.

1046 Marriage

Boyer, following Bartrum, reports that Edwin ap Gronwy of Tegeingl married Iwerydd ferch Cynfyn. ^{[1] [6]}

Boyer estimates the birth year of Iwerydd's father Cynfyn as, say, 1000. Cynfyn married Angharad ferch Maredudd ab Owain ap Hywel Dda ap Cadell ap Rhodri Mawr, who was herself a widow of Llwelyn ap Seisyll (who died in 1023). This would place Cynfyn's marriage at, say, 1024, with his children born beginning the following year. Boyer lists Iwerydd third, so place her birth at 1029, and, if she herself married at age 17, the marriage year would be 1046. ^[1]

Montgomeryshire Collections says he married Gwerydd, daughter of Cynfyn ab Gwrystand Lord of Cibwyr in Gwent, and jure usoris Prince of Powys. ^[5] This would appear to be an alternate spelling of Iwerydd.

One source adds, without further citation, that Edwin married second Gwerfyl verch Lluddocca born in Llys y Coed, Cilcain, Flintshire, Wales^[4]

1066 Norman Conquest

Wikipedia reports that by the time of the Norman conquest in 1066, Tegeingl was under the control of Edwin of Tegeingl, from whose Lordship the Flintshire coat of arms is derived. ^[7]

1079 Lord of Tegeingl

Edwin was the Lord of Tegaingl in 1079 ^[8]

1086 Held Counsillt near Flint

Edwin held Counsillt, near Flint, of Robert of Rhuddlan at the time of Domesday. ^[1]

1090 Succeeded Father

Boyer reports that Edwin succeeded his father about 1090. ^[1] A 1017 birth, as Wolcott estimates, is difficult to reconcile with a 1090 accession to rule, as he would have been aged 73.

1096 Owain the Traitor

In 1096, during the reign of William Rufus in England, and of Grufydd ab Cynan in Gwynedd, a formidable army of English, under the command of Hugh Lupus, Earl of Chester, and Hugh the Red, Earl of Shrewsbury, invaded North Wales, at the secret instigation of several powerful native chieftains; and Grufydd retired to the mountains for safety. ^[9]

The two earls, encountering no resistance, advanced into that part of Carnarvonshire which lies nearest to Anglesey; when Grufydd, anticipating the danger which threatened the seat of his government, crossed the Menai into the island, and receiving a small reinforcement from Ireland, resolved to defend this part of his territory. ^[9]

At this critical moment, however, Owain ab Edwyn, lord of Englefield, one of the secret betrayers of his country, whose daughter was the wife of Grufydd, and who was himself his prime minister and adviser, openly avowed his treachery, and joined the English army with his forces. The Welsh prince, alarmed at the defection of so powerful a chieftain, and unable to oppose the increased numbers of the enemy, withdrew to Ireland. Thus again left unprotected, Anglesey fell an easy prey to the English, who took ample revenge upon its inhabitants, for the cruelties which had a little before been committed by the Welsh on the English border; they massacred many, and barbarously mutilated others. ^[9]

The deliverance of North Wales at this perilous period was brought about by a train of fortuitous circumstances. Magnus, son of Harold, King of Norway, having taken possession of the Orkneys and the Isle of Man, accidentally arrived at this time on the coast of Anglesey, and attempted a descent upon it. In the opposition which the English made to his landing, the impetuous valour of the Earl of Shrewsbury hurrying him into the water, the Norwegian prince levelled an arrow at him, which, through the opening of his helmet, pierced his brain through his right eye, and he fell convulsed in the sea: the Welsh regarded this as a stroke of retributive justice coming immediately from the hand of the Almighty. The death of the Earl of Shrewsbury produced some disorder among the English, and compelled them to abandon the shore: and the Earl of Chester, on this disaster, suddenly withdrew to Bangor, where he for some time fixed his abode, carrying on a desultory warfare with the people of Anglesey, whom he annoyed with frequent aggressions. The latter Earl, in the course of this expedition, erected a castle at a place called Aber-Lleiniog, on the shores of the Menai, near Beaumaris. The Norwegians, finding that the English had left nothing to plunder, immediately re-embarked; and this was the last attempt made by any of the northern nations to ravage or subdue this island. ^[9]

1098 Invaded Anglesey

In 1098 Edwin assisted Earl Hugh of Chester in a joint invasion of Anglesey and became known as Owain Fradwr, or Owen the Traitor. ^[1] Boyer may be an error, as it was the son who was named Owen, not the father.

1099 End of Rule

Edwin was established as ruler of Gwynedd but a revolt brought Gruffudd ap Cynan and Cadwgon ap Bleddyn back from Ireland in 1099, and ended his rule.^[1]

1104 Death

Boyer cites the Dictionary of National Biography to report that Edwin ap Gronwy of Tegeingl died in 1104 after a long illness ^[10]

Issue

Boyer reports two children, listed by Bartrum: ^[1]

1. Owain ab Edwyn, b. 1044 ^[11]. d. 1105, m. Morwyl ferch Ednywain Bendew I ^[1] #Owain ap Edwyn (Has children)^[4]
2. Uchdrud ab Edwin, b. 1040 ^[11], m. (1) Nest ferch llywelyn Eudorchog, m (2) Angharad ferch Rhys Sais. ^[1] With Agnes, daughter of Llewelyn aug Dorchog, Lord of Yale, Uchdryd was the father of Idnerth Benfras, Lord of Macebroke. ^[5]

Not listed by Bartrum/Boyer:

1. Meurig ab Edwin, b. 1045. ^[11]

Confused by Becky with children of Ednowain Bendew

1. Madog ap Ednowain Bendew b: 1080 in Bodfari, Yskeiviog, Flintshire Co., Wales (Has children)^[4]
2. Bletrws ap Ednowain Bendew (Has children)^[4]
3. Ceinfryd verch Ednowain Bendew (Has children)^[4]

Descendant

Kathrin vh Iorwerth ap Rhirid m Iorwerth Vychan ap Iorwerth Voel ap Madoc fychan ap Madoc ap Urien ap Einion (Eginir) ap Lles (Llewelyn) ap Idnerth of Maen Gwyneth ap Uchdryd ap Edwyn (Edwin) ap Grono ap Owain ap Hywel Dda^[12]

Research Notes

Pedigree

• Edwin, Lord or as he was commonly called king of Tegeingl, was the head of one of the fifteen tribes, from whom most of the chief families of that county are descended. ^[13]

• Edwin ap Gronwy of Tegeingl.^[1]

• Edwyn ab Goronwy. ^[5] Edwyn was Prince of Tegeingl, founder of the twelfth noble tribe of North Wales.

• Edwin of Tegeingl. Wolcott notes that Edwin is a Saxon, rather than a Welsh name. ^[3]

Luke Stevens reminds us that PP.36 affirms the name Edwin ap Gronwy, reading as follows: Edwin ap Gronwy ap Einion ap Ywain ap Howel Dda. Edelffled gwraic Edmwnt brenin Lloegyr oedd vam Edwin. ["Aethelflaed, wife of King Edmund of England, was the mother of Edwin"]. Pen. 74, 75, 127, 128, 129, 138, 177, and 181 (all c. 1500 or later). ^[14]

Stevens also cites alternative naming/pedigrees for Edwin:

• Edwin ap Gronw ap Allwedd brenin Tegaingl Pen. 129 (c. 1500) ^[14]

• Edwin ap Anlleth vrenin ap Einion ap Gronwy ap Ywain ap Howel vychan ap Howel dda.^[14]

Alternate Theories of Identity

Edwyn is the same as Ednowain Bendew

• Name: Edwyn [Ednowain Bendew] ap Gronwy ^[4]

• ALIA: Edwin of Merca, Ednowain Bendew I Neiniad ^[4]

Theories of Parenthood other than Gronwy

Mercia Origins

• ALIA: Edwin of Merca, Ednowain Bendew I Neiniad ^[4]

It has also been suggested that his origins were in Mercia, and that he forced a line of descent from Rhodri Mawr for political reasons. ^[15]

Edwin's mother is believed to have been Ethelfleda or Aldgyth, daughter of Eadwine of Mercia. ^[7]

Philip Yorke identifies Edwin's mother as Ethelfleda or Aldgyth, daughter of Eadwine of Mercia. ^[16] She was probably the daughter of Edwyn, brother to Earl Leofwine of Mercia. ^[3]

Descendant of Hywel Dda

It is clear that there were a number of variations to Edwin's pedigree, most of which made him a descendant of Hywel Dda, but in different ways. One interesting variant even gives his father's name as "Osbarn", perhaps suggesting Scandinavian ancestry of some sort.

However, the main item of interest for this posting is the suggested connection with the English royal family that appears in some of the variants (and was not mentioned in David Kelley's article "Edwin of Tegeingl", TAG 46, 75-80): "Idelffled gwraic Edmwnt brenin Lloegyr oedd vam Edwin." ^[2]

"Edwin ap Hywel Dda bore an English name, which was possibly given him out of compliment to the young son of Edward the Elder who perished in 933." ^[17]

The sentence is simple enough that I am willing to risk a translation. Assuming that "Idelffled" (and variants) is the obvious Anglo-Saxon name Æthelflæd, the sentence reads: "Æthelflæd, wife of Edmund, king of England, was mother of Edwin." ^[2]

This pedigree would appear to be suggesting that Edwin had English connections through his MOTHER. Now, this account is complicated by the fact that Edmund Ironside (the only chronologically possible king Edmund of England) did not have a known wife named Æthelflæd. An additional complication comes from the fact that king Edmund I did have a wife of that name, and we have the following passage from Pen 127, p. 81 (as quoted by Bartrum, ibid., p. 134): Rai a ddywaid bod mab i Howel dda ap Cadell a elwid Edwin o Elffled gwraic Ethelstan vrenhin i vam.

Now, that sentence is not simple enough that I am willing to attempt a translation, but judging from the context of Bartrum's remarks, it says that king Æthelstan's wife Ælfflæd was a mother of an earlier Edwin, namely Edwin ap Hywel Dda (d. 954). (A translation from someone who knows Welsh would be welcome.) Bartrum then states that the manuscript identifies this Edwin by implication with Edwin of Tegeingl, and suggests that it indicates the possibility that Hywel Dda may have had an English wife or mistress. [Note: Æthelstan is not known to have been married.]^[2]

Text: From this, a couple of observations can be made:

1. There are indications that later writers confused Edwin ap HywelDda and Edwin of Tegeingl.^[2]
2. There was a story that one of the Edwins (it is not clear which one) had a mother who was also wife of an English king.^[2]

The confusion between these two Edwins could be spun in a couple of

directions. Clearly, the chronology is so far off that they could only be confused by later writers who had no clear chronological understanding of the situation. It could be argued that they were members of the same family, and that that it what caused them to become confused. On the other hand, it could also be argued that it was the name Edwin that caused the men to become confused, and that additional generations were then later added by those who noted the chronological problems. (The existence of several different versions of Edwin's alleged descent from Hywel Dda would be a point in support of the latter argument.)^[2]

It seems unlikely that both Edwins independently had the story of being a son of a woman who was also married to an English king, for the stories are too similar. If we accept this, the three main possibilities would seems to be: ^[2]

1. The story is a later fabrication, and has no real substance.
2. The story has some substance, was originally told of Edwin ap Hywel Dda, and was then transferred to Edwin of Tegeingl at some point after the two Edwins became confused. ^[2]
3. The story has some substance, and was originally told of Edwin of Tegeingl, with the same later confusion. If the last of these options is correct, then it would indicate that whatever English ancestry Edwin of Tegeingl might have had, it was more likely to have come through his mother than his father. If one of the first two options is correct, then it is inconclusive with regard to Edwin of Tegeingl. In none of these cases do we have any support for the suggested identification of Edwin of Tegeingl with Edwin of Mercia.^[2]

On the other hand, it does show us the likely origin of the false arms anachronistically assigned to Edwin of Tegeingl, and eliminates that (already weak) argument as a point in support of the Mercian identification. It seems to me that the logical conclusion is that NONE of the theories about the origin of Edwin of Tegeingl have been backed up by good evidence, that the parentage of Edwin of Tegeingl should be stated as "unknown", and that even stating that Edwin of Tegeingl "might have been" or "was perhaps" [some specified parentage] is a misleading overstatement of the situation.^[2]

Edwin of Tegeingl was Edwin of Mercia

A few months ago I sent a copy of Stewart Baldwin's 22 June 1999 post

quoted below and related posts to Prof. David H. Kelley. Prof. Kelley's 1970 TAG article "Edwin of Tegeingl" argued that Edwin, King of Tegeingl, who died in 1073 (1071?), was identical with Edwin, Earl of Mercia, who died in 1071. He and I have discussed the matter and have some comments and clarifications. ^[18]

First, here is a summary of the major points in Kelley (1970) [see the source

list below for bibliographic information]. Some of this summary is simply quotations from Kelley's article. ^[18]

• The mediaeval Welsh sub-kingdom of Tegeingl in the northeast corner of Wales corresponds roughly to 20th-century Flintshire. At times it was subordinate to Gwynedd to its west, and at other times it was part of Anglo-Saxon Mercia, immediately to its east.^[18]

• Edwin, King of Tegeingl, bore the title of _vrenhin_, the same title borne by

the kings of Gwynedd and used in Welsh sources to apply to such rulers as the king of England or the king of France. Ednowain Bendew of Tegeingl, a contemporary of Edwin of Tegeingl (his daughter married Edwin's son), is sometimes referred to as king of Tegeingl but more often as prince (_tywysog_) of Tegeingl. Thus Edwin is assigned a somewhat higher status. Still, it is quite anomalous to have two contemporary rulers in one small sub-kingdom. Vaughan (1891) attempted to explain this anomaly by suggesting that "Edwin, King of Tegeingl" of the Welsh tradition, was none other than the historic Edwin, Ealdorman (Earl) of Mercia, given a fictitious Welsh pedigree. Among the evidence mentioned by Vaughan is the fact that Owain, ruler of Tegeingl and son of Edwin, is called _Owain ap Aldud_, i.e., Owain "son of the foreigner" (Harleian MS 2299, fol. 204). Conversely, some Saxon documents (unfortunately not specified) refer to Edwin of Mercia as "the Welshman."^[18]

• In 1071 Edwin of Mercia was leading a force (consisting probably of both Saxon and Welsh soldiers) in resistance to William the Conqueror. The _Anglo-Saxon Chronicle_ gives the death of Edwin correctly under the year 1071 in version D and incorrectly under 1072 in version E, saying that he was slain by his own men. Lloyd (1875, p. 228) reports that Edwin of Tegeingl was killed in 1073 by one Rhys ap Rhydderch ap Owain; unfortunately, he doesn't give the source of this information. Many Welsh sources for this period give dates that are two years later than they should be, so the correct year could be 1071.

• Prof. Kelley supplies the following comments: The historically known ruler of Tegeingl in much of the 11th century was Edwin, Earl of Mercia, the only Edwin attested in contemporaneous records as an over-ruler of the Tegeingl area, or, indeed, as any sort of ruler of Tegeingl. A contemporaneous Welsh ruler named Edwin, specified to be of Welsh origin, is first "attested" more than 400 years later in late versions of _Achau Brenhinoedd a Thywysogion Cymru_ ("Pedigrees of the Welsh Kings and Princes", commonly known as ABT). This is a time when embroidery, misidentifications and outright faking were the order of the day. I am glad to see that current scholarship rejects the various Welsh pedigrees that have been put forth for Edwin of Tegeingl, but I believe we should go further and reject a Welsh origin for Edwin of Tegeingl.^[18]

The following two additional observations can be made.

First, not only are the death dates of Edwin of Mercia and Edwin of Tegeingl

potentially compatible, but so are the circumstances of their deaths. Earl Edwin of Mercia could well have been killed by a Welshman named Rhys ap Rhydderch ab Owain in the force he was leading north. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle reports that Edwin of Mercia had Welsh soldiers in his army in 1065 (ASC (C) s.a. 1065; ASC (D) s.a. 1065; ASC (E) s.a. 1064), and he probably also did in 1071. The Welsh were vigorously taking advantage of the weakness of the Normans in England by supporting the rebellions of Eadric Cild and Edwin of Mercia (Walker 1990, p. 26).^[18]

Second, in his Ecclesiastical History Orderic Vitalis makes the mistake of

labeling Bleddyn as son of Gruffudd and Ealdgyth; Bleddyn was actually a uterine half-brother of Gruffudd. Consistent with this misconception, Orderic later specifies that Ealdgyth's brothers Morcar and Edwin were uncles of Bleddyn (Maund 1988, p. 189). However, Maund says, "it is clear that people remembered a tie of some kind between the rulers of North Wales and the family of Leofric at this time, and that Orderic was aware of this." Orderic's mistaken claim of a blood relationship between Bleddyn and Edwin is easier to understand if (in addition to Edwin's being brother-in-law of Gruffudd) Edwin's wife was Bleddyn's half-sister Iwerydd.^[18]

Baldwin's critique (below) of Kelley's hypothesized identity is primarily

onomastic, but Kelley's argument is not particularly onomastic. It is more based on the status and circumstances of the individuals involved, as described in the summary and comments above. These factors are not treated specifically by Baldwin but are lumped together in the blanket dismissal in point 3. Kelley's argument is also based on the late date of the first source to give a Welsh origin for the Edwin who ruled Tegeingl. Related to this, in point 1 below, Baldwin says ::While this alleged affiliation is itself based only on late manuscripts of uncertain authority, and might be wrong, the possibility that Bartrum's version is correct cannot be disproven on known evidence, and is onomastically quite reasonable. The fact that one cannot disprove statements in a dubious source of much later date is not a good enough reason even to give them serious attention.^[18]

In point 2 below, Baldwin comments on the name Uchtred

The onomastic evidence involving the name Uchtred is also unconvincing. To my knowledge, no man of that name appears in the family of Edwin of Mercia, so the fact that Edwin of Tegeingl had a son of that name is not worth much.^[18]

Kelley's TAG article notes that Edwin of Mercia's brother Morcar has a Northumbrian name and was chosen by the Northumbrians as their earl in 1065. Given this, it would not be at all surprising to find another Northumbrian

name (Uchtred) in Edwin of Mercia's family, and if Edwin of Mercia is Edwin of Tegeingl, this is just what we find. On the other hand, if Edwin of Mercia is not Edwin of Tegeingl, the appearance of a son of Edwin of Tegeingl with the name Uchtred, native to the rather distant region of Northumbria, is somewhat surprising. Baldwin says about this appearance of Uchtred^[18] Certainly, it suggests some kind of Saxon connections, but such connections could easily come through the mother's side.

But it seems less far-fetched to postulate that Edwin of Mercia is Edwin of Tegeingl than to postulate that Uchtred's mother Iwerydd had Northumbrian ancestry (or for that matter, to postulate that Uchtred's father was a somewhat obscure Welshman with Northumbrian ancestry). ^[18]

Baldwin in his point 3 frowns on "speculation with no clear support in primary sources."^[18]

Finally, Kelley supplies the following additional comments on sources:

• My article on Edwin gave the sources for the pedigree of Edwin, with the earliest accounts mentioned according to the manuscript, based on Bartrum's reconstruction of the Ms. _Hanesyn Hen_. Clearly, it would have been better to specify dates. Bartrum, 1966, has a good summary of the dates of the various manuscripts involved, pp. 75-80, but has nothing specifically on Edwin. One of the many parts of Hanesyn Hen_ is ABT.

According to Bartrum, Version G probably derives from a Ms. of Gutun Owain of about 1475, which _may_ have had the version G pedigree "Edwin vrenhin Tegeingl ap Gronw ap Ywain ap Howel Dda". Peniarth Ms. 75 includes

version J of _Hanesyn hen_, after about 1550, and, elsewhere in the Ms. the pedigree of "Edwin ap Gronwy ap Owaian ap Rodri ap Howel Dda". Version F of _Hanesyn Hen_ comes from Peniarth Ms. 129 of about 1500 A.D., with some later additions. This Ms. also contains a reference (not in the _Hanesyn Hen_ section) to "Edwin ap Gronwy ap Einion ap Owain ap Hywel Dda", the so-called 'traditional' pedigree.^[18]

-- Don Stone and David Kelley^[18]

Sources:^[18]

• Bartrum, P. C. 1966. _Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts_. Cardiff: University of Wales Press.
• Kelley, David H. 1970. "Edwin of Tegeingl." _The American Genealogist_ 46: 75-80.
• Lloyd, J. Y. W. 1875. "The Lordships of Bromfield, Yale and Chirkland." _Archaeologia Cambrensis_ 4th ser., vol. 6.
• Maund, K. L. 1988. "The Welsh alliances of Earl Aelfgar of Mercia and his family in the mid-eleventh century." _Anglo-Norman Studies_ XI.
• Vaughan, H. F. J. 1891. "Chief of the Noble Tribes of Gwynedd." _Archaeologia Cambrensis_ 5th ser., 8: 241-261.
• Walker, David. 1990. _Medieval Wales_. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

Alternate Theories of Gronwy's Parenthood

Credible sources give different parentages for Edwin. Alternative parents for Gronwy are presented in alphabetical order.

Stewart Baldwin states that PP.36 gives several contradictory accounts of Edwin's parentage, all from late manuscripts, so his parentage should be regarded as unknown. ^[19]

Gronwy ab Einion

Edwin ap Gronwy of Tegeingl was allegedly son of Gronwy ab Einion (died 984) ab Owain ap Hywell Dda (died 950) ap Cadell (died 910), Prince of Deheubarth, ap Rhodri Mawr.

Lewys Dwnn in his Heraldic Visitations ^[20]gives Edwin's ancestry as Gronwy ab Einion ap Owain ap Hywel Ddu.^[20]

Edwin ap Gronwy was allegedly son of Gronwy ap Einion (died 984) ab Owain ap Hywel Dda (died 950) ap Cadell (died 910), Prince of Deheubarth, ap Rhodri Mawr. ^[1]

His father was Gronwy ap Einion (Grono) b: ABT 959 in Dynevor, Llandyfeisand, Caernarthenshire, Wales ^[4]

His mother was Aethelflaed [Ethelfleda] verch Edwin b: 963 in Dynevor, Llandyfeisand, Caernarthenshire, Wales^[4]

Einion ap Owain

Wolcott notes that there was an Einion ap Owain who married a Saxon lady; neither her name nor ancestry is recorded. However, in her old age she insisted her lands in Mercia be given to a female relative and not to her son Edwin. ^[21]

This Edwin had a son, Hywel, who also married a Saxon princess -- the Algitha or Editha whom Gruffudd ap Llewelyn had "taken for himself" after defeating Hywel in 1041, and whom Harold Godwinson had taken from Gruffudd after his death in 1063.

Gronwy ap Graithfoed

Wolcott ^[3] after considering various alternatives agrees that Edwin's father was named Gronwy, but believes Gronwy is the son of Gwaethfoed of Tegeingl. Based on common location and references, Wolcott asserts the following descent, with his estimated birth years:

1. Lies Lyddog, born 860
2. Caradog born 895
3. Gwrydr Hir, born 925
4. Gwaethfoed of Tegeingl, born 955
5. Neiniad, born 985, and Gronwy, born 990, sons of Gwaethfoed of Tegeingl
6. Ednowain Bendew, son of Neiniad, born 1010, and Edwin, son of Gronwy, born 1020, first cousins.

Gronwy ab Owain

Wolcott notes that the majority, but by no means all, of the medieval pedigrees name the father of Edwin as Gronwy, and say this Gronwy was the son of Owain ap Hywel Dda. ^[22]

Many say he was the son of Gronwy ab Owain ab Hywel Dda, and lived in the middle of the tenth century. His arms are argent between four Cornish choughs, a cross fieuri en grailed sable.^[13]

Grazebrook ^[12] gives his ancestry as Grono ap Owain ap Hywel Dda

Wolcott notes, however, that Gronwy ap Howell Dda would have flourished in the time span 940-950, a full generation too old to be the father of Edwin. He notes that some genealogies solved this problem by creating an adding a generation, making it Edwin ap Gronwy ab Einion ap Owain ap Hywel Dda, but no ancient manuscripts have a son of Einion ab Owain named Gronwy. ^[3].

Goronwy ap Tudor

Jacob Youde William Lloyd ^[23] has Edwyn the son of Goronwy the son of Tudor and his wife Nesta, daughter of the Earl of Devonshire. Lloyd has Edwyn slain by Rhys ap Rhydderch ap Owain in 1073.^[23]

Considering the dates of reign and death, I am partial to the data presented by Grazebrook (1888) ^[12] and in Williams' Biographical Dictionary ^[13] (See below)

I have estimated Grono's birth around 0965 (Maredudd ab Owain, his brother was born 0967),

Darrell Wolcott ^[3]estimates Grono's birth 0940/0950, but Grono was most likely the youngest son and predeceased Maredudd, who died in 1022, since he never came to the title of King of Deheubarth.^[24]

Excerpt from A Biographical Dictionary of Eminent Welshmen

Edwin, lord or as he was commonly called king of Tegengl, in Flintshire, was the head of one of the fifteen tribes, from whom most of the chief families of that county are descended. He was the son of Gronw ab Owain ab Hywel Dda, and lived in the middle of the tenth century. His arms are argent between four Cornish choughs, a cross fieuri en grailed sable.^[13]

Siblings

Grono ab Owain married Edelfleda, daughter of Edwin Earl of Mercia, widow of Edmund Ironside King of the Saxons and had:

1. Edwyn
2. Howel, who with his nephew Uchdryd and the sons of Cadwgan ap Bleddyn, ravaged and destroyed Dyfed, except Pembroke Castle in 1094.^[12]

Edwin of Tegeingl and Edwin of Mercia

Are Edwin of Tegeingl and Edwin of Mercia the same person?

H. F. J. Vaughn ^[25] makes a powerful case that Edwin of Tegeingl was the same person as Edwin, Earl of Mercia, son of Aelfgar, Earl of Mercia, and grandson of Leofric, Earl of Mercia, and his wife, Godgifu (Lady Godiva). Earl Edwin -- whose sister Aldgyth (Edith) married (1) Gruffydd ap Llewellyn, King of Wales; (2) Harold II, King of England --, with is brother Morcar, Earl of Northumbria, led the resistance to William the Conqueror after 1068; Edwin was killed in 1071. Tegeingl, comprising the commotes of Rhuddlan, Coleshill and Prestatin, in Flintshire, was mostly part of Mercia from the 9th to the 11th century. If Vaughan is right, Edwin left descendants in his Welsh territories among whom the memory of their Mercian ancestry became confused, being shifted from the paternal side.

Stewart Baldwin asserts that the attempt of David H. Kelley (in "Edwin of Tegeingl", The American Genealogist/TAG 46 (1970), 75- 80) to identify Edwin of Tegeingl with Edwin of Mercia is unconvincing. ^[19]

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.00 1.01 1.02 1.03 1.04 1.05 1.06 1.07 1.08 1.09 1.10 1.11} Carl Boyer, 3rd. Medieval Welsh Ancestors of Certain Americans. Follows Bartrum. Santa Clarita, California: By the Author. 2004. Edwin ap Gronwy is #1 on page 113.
2. ↑ ^{2.00 2.01 2.02 2.03 2.04 2.05 2.06 2.07 2.08 2.09 2.10} Stewart Baldwin. Cited by Becky's Genealogy Family Tree. Rootsweb World Connect Edwin of Tegeingl Updated June 3, 2010. Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd
3. ↑ ^{3.0 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4 3.5 3.6} Darrell Wolcott. The Ancestry of Edwin of Tegeingl Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd
4. ↑ ^{4.00 4.01 4.02 4.03 4.04 4.05 4.06 4.07 4.08 4.09 4.10} Becky's Genealogy Family Tree. Rootsweb World Connect Edwin of Tegeingl Updated June 3, 2010. Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd
5. ↑ ^{5.0 5.1 5.2 5.3} Powys-land Club Montgomery-shire Collections, Volume 8. Contributor: Powys-land Club, Welshpool, Wales. Publisher: Powys-land Club, 1875. Original from: UC Southern Regional Library Facility. Digitized: Apr 11, 2014. Accessed August 3, 2018 jhd
6. ↑ Carl Boyer, 3rd. Medieval Welsh Ancestors of Certain Americans. By the Author: Santa Clarita, California, 2004. Iwerydd, wife of Edwin, is shown as a daughter of #19, Cynfyn ap Gwerystan ap Gwaithfoed of Powys on pages 9 and 10.
7. ↑ ^{7.0 7.1} Wikipedia: Flintshire Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd
8. ↑ Book of Ednop. Cited by Becky's Genealogy Family Tree. Rootsweb World Connect Edwin of Tegeingl Updated June 3, 2010. Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd
9. ↑ ^{9.0 9.1 9.2 9.3} From: 'Amlwch - Atpar', A Topographical Dictionary of Wales (1849), pp. 25-52. [ http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=47797 British History] Accessed: 12 August 2007. Cited by Becky's Genealogy Family Tree. Rootsweb World Connect Edwin of Tegeingl Updated June 3, 2010. Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd
10. ↑ Dictionary of National Biography, 14:1284, cited by Boyer, p. 113
11. ↑ ^{11.0 11.1 11.2} Current WikiTree Data Field, Unsourced.
12. ↑ ^{12.0 12.1 12.2 12.3} George Grazebrook, contributor, Abridged Pedigree of Owen of Llunllo and Bettws, pages 363-375 in Joseph Jackson Howard, editor, Miscellanea Genealogica Et Heraldica Volume II, Second Series, London: Mitchell and Hughes, 1888. Note especially pedigree charts showing Grono ab Owen, pages 365-366. The charts are based upon:
    1. the pedigree at Tedsmore drawn by William Courthope and collated with the old parchment at Woodhouse, drawn by John Cain, about 1620 the several Heraldic Visitations, 1586 to 1623 the Morris and other MSS family papers. Original from: Princeton University. Digitized: Oct 13, 2009. Retrieved by amb 10 June 2014
13. ↑ ^{13.0 13.1 13.2 13.3} Robert Williams. A Biographical Dictionary of Eminent Welshmen: From the Earliest Times to the Present, and Including Every Name Connected with the Ancient History of Wales. Pages 127-131. Publisher: William Rees, 1852, retrieved 2014-06-13, amb
14. ↑ ^{14.0 14.1 14.2} Luke Stevens, Note to GEN-MEDIEVAL, 3 Sep 1997 regarding PP.36 cited by P. C. Bartrum, Welsh Genealogies, A.D. 300-1400 (8 vols., ) Cardiff, 1974, supplement vol., 1980. Cited by Becky's Genealogy Family Tree. Rootsweb World Connect Edwin of Tegeingl Updated June 3, 2010. Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd
15. ↑ Kelley, TAG, 46 (1970), 75-80. Cited by Carl Boyer, 3rd. Medieval Welsh Ancestors of Certain Americans. Follows Bartrum. Santa Clarita, California: By the Author. 2004, #1, Edwin ap Gronwy, page 113.
16. ↑ Philip Yorke: The Royal Tribes of Wales, 1887, pp 202; Dictionary of Welsh Biography, 1959, pp 201. Cited by Darrell Wolcott. The Ancestry of Edwin of Tegeingl Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd
17. ↑ J. E. Lloyd, History of Wales, 2nd ed, 1912, p. 337. Cited by Don Stone, who suggested that there might not be an Anglo-Saxon descent for either Edwin. Soc.Genealogy.Medieval. [https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/xT6ejwgLH_U Edwin, Prince of Tegeingl. Discussion between Don Stone, Stewart Baldwin, and Hans Vogels. Posted November 4, 2002. Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd
18. ↑ ^{18.00 18.01 18.02 18.03 18.04 18.05 18.06 18.07 18.08 18.09 18.10 18.11 18.12 18.13 18.14} Don Stone, Soc.Genealogy.Medieval. [https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/xT6ejwgLH_U Edwin, Prince of Tegeingl. Discussion between Don Stone, Stewart Baldwin, and Leo Vogel. Posted October 28, 2002. Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd
19. ↑ ^{19.0 19.1} Stewart Baldwin (GEN-MEDIEVAL ATG rootsweb.com) as quoted by David Kelly, 21 Sep 1997. Cited by Becky's Genealogy Family Tree. Rootsweb World Connect Edwin of Tegeingl Updated June 3, 2010. Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd
20. ↑ ^{20.0 20.1} Lewys Dwnn, Heraldic visitations of Wales and part of the Marches: between the years 1586 and 1613, under the authority of Clarencieux and Norroy, two kings at arms, p. 321. (Google eBook). Publisher: Rees, 1846, page 321, retrieved by amb 19:15, 10 June 2014 (EDT)
21. ↑ Dorothy Whitelock, editor "English Historical Documents c. 500-1042", 1968, pp 556 describes a suit brought by Edwin son of Einion against his mother, seeking her lands of Wellington and Cradley. His elderly mother, unable to attend the trial, was interviewed at her home by representatives appointed by the court. Angry that her son had brought the suit, she sent for her "kinswoman" Leofflaed who was wife to Thurkil the White and announced that it was to Leofflaed that she was granting her lands after death, and to her son "never a thing". One assumes the old lady was aware her son had inherited land in Wales from his father who died in 984, and intended to keep her English property in her birth family. Yet, her rebuke of her son also indicates real hostility. Leofflaed was probably the daughter of her brother. Both ladies were Saxon princesses. Based upon the parties present, we date this lawsuit near 1020. Cited by Darrell Wolcott. The Ancestry of Edwin of Tegeingl Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd
22. ↑ National Library of Wales Journal, vol xiii, part 2, pp 113. Cited by Darrell Wolcott. The Ancestry of Edwin of Tegeingl Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd
23. ↑ ^{23.0 23.1} Jacob Youde William Lloyd, The History of the Princes, the Lords Marcher, p. 65, Volume 1, retrieved 2014-06-21, amb
24. ↑ amb 19:27, 10 June 2014 (EDT)
25. ↑ H. F. J. Vahghan. "Chief of the Noble Tribes of Gwynedd," H.F.J. Vaughan in Archaeologia Cambrensis, 5th Series Text: in Nationary Library of Wales Journal, vol. 13, pp. 93-146 and vol. 15, pp. 157-166 vol. 8, pp. 241, 252-58. Cited by Becky's Genealogy Family Tree. Rootsweb World Connect Edwin of Tegeingl Updated June 3, 2010. Accessed August 4, 2018 jhd

Acknowledgments

WikiTree profile Ap-1 created through the import of WILLIAMS 2011.GED on Jun 22, 2011 by Ted Williams.