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Hugh (Avranches) d'Avranches (abt. 1047 - 1101)

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Hugh "Earl of Chester, Hugh the Fat aka Hugh Lupus" d'Avranches formerly Avranches
Born about in Avranches, Normandymap
Ancestors ancestors
Son of and [mother unknown]
Husband of — married about [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died in St Werburgh, Chester, Cheshire, Englandmap
Profile last modified | Created 29 May 2014
This page has been accessed 6,097 times.

Categories: The Carrington Imposture | Domesday Book | Earls of Chester.

British Aristocracy
Hugh (Avranches) d'Avranches was a member of aristocracy in the British Isles.
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Contents

Biography

Name and Birth

Hughes d'Avranches [1] is sometimes referred to as "Hugh Lupus" (Hugh the Wolf) [2][1] or Hugh le Gros [3] (Hugh the Fat)[2]

Cawley [1][4] and Cockayne [3] agree that Hugh d'Avranches, 1st Earl of Chester was born circa 1047.

Parents

Cawley notes that Hughes "Lupus" d'Avranches, was the son of Richard "le Goz" Vicomte d'Avranches and his wife. [4]

C. P. Lewis, writing in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, notes that Richard Goz was vicomte d'Avranches and seigneur de St Sever, and that Hugh's paternal family were aristocratic landowners of viking descent in the Cotentin. [5]

Cockayne states not only that Hugh d'Avranches was the son of Richard le Goz, Vicomte d'Avranches, but that his mother was Emma de Contville. [3]

Cawley observes that a manuscript relating to St Werburgh’s Chester records that “Hugo Lupus filius ducis Britanniæ et nepos Gulielmi magni ex sorore” transformed the foundation into a monastery and states that this suggests that the mother of Hugues may have been a uterine sister of King William, and therefore daughter of Herluin de Conteville. However, no indication has been made in other primary sources which supports the contention that Hugues was the son of a duke of Brittany. Cawley suggests therefore that both lines of his parentage have been romanticised in this document to improve Hughes' status and reputation. [4]

The pedigree in the Visitation of Cheshire (1580) [6] reflects the more "romantic" erroneous perspective described by Cawley, as does John Pym Yeatman's work. [7]

Reflecting this more recent thinking, C. P. Lewis, writing in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, refers to Hugh's mother as "an unknown mother formerly identified on the basis of unsatisfactory evidence as Emma, supposedly a half-sister of William the Conqueror. [5] Based on this, the link to Emma Conteville as the mother of Hugh d'Avranche has been disconnected.

Sisters

One of Hughes' sisters married Richer de l'Aigle and another sister married William, count of Eu, [5] William d'Eu apparently ill-used his wife, Hugh's sister, and following his involvement in the baronial rebellions of 1095, Hughes characteristically settled the score by insisting that William d"Eu receive the full punishment for treason: blinding and castration.[5]

1066 Invasion of England

C. P. Lewis notes that in 1066 Hugh was still a young man and his father was vicomte d'Avranches; Hugh was not the ‘Viscount Hugh’ of the Ship List and is unlikely to have fought at Hastings. [5] Cawley notes that The Brevis Relatio de Origine Willelmi Conquestoris records that "Hugone postea comite de Cestria" contributed 60 ships towards the invasion of England in 1066 [4] and Cockayne and others note that in 1066 he contributed 60 ships to the invasion of England, [3][8]but Lewis appears to be stating that this was another Hugh.

While Hugh did not fight at the Battle of hastings, [5][3] he soon afterwards crossed to England in the service of the new King William.

First Marriage

Cawley suggests that there could well have been a first marriage but that no direct evidence has been found for one.[4] Since marriage was normal for a young man achieving majority, it would be surprising if Hughes, born in 1047 and aged 21 in 1068, had not been previously married by the time of his documented marriage to Ermentrude by 1093.

Mistresses

Keats-Rohan refers to Hugh as the "father of several known bastards", but their mothers are not named.

An unknown daughter of a man named Dedol is shown by some popular genealogies as one of his mistresses.

1071 Earl of Chester

King William appointed Hughes Earl of Chester. William had first. after securing Chester about 1070, installed a Flemish ally, Gerbod, as the new ruler of Chester, formerly Mercia, but Gerbod had been unable to maintain his position against assaults by the sons of Aelfgar of Mercia and their Welsh allies, and returned to Flanders. [2]

Cockayne reports that as a result William the Conqueror created Hughes d"Avranches the first Earl of Chester [England] in 1071.[3] C P Lewis states that Hughes' first military command was Tutbury Castle in still unpacified Mercia; but probably in 1070 the king instead gave him the much more important castle in the regional capital of Chester and made him an earl. It was a significant promotion, shared, among the Conqueror's other regional commanders in Mercia, only by Roger de Montgomery, an older man close to the king. [5] who became Earl of Shrewsbury.

Lewis adds that along with Chester and the earldom came the beginnings of a huge landed estate in England. The honour of Chester was accumulated gradually over some twenty years. [5][9]

From the first the lands of Hugh's honour were essentially northern, with scattered and not especially valuable outliers over much of the midlands and south. Cheshire was the heart of it, not for its value—a third or less of the total—but for the importance of Chester itself and the fact that the earl received every manor in the shire except the bishop's. [5]

One reason given for the lower value of Cheshire manors at the time of Domesday was the extent of destruction required to turn Saxon Mercia into Norman Cheshire.

The Earl's Military Companions

Hugh d'Avranches worked closely with a half dozen men of his generation in pacifying Mercia. C P Lewis observes that because Earl Hugh did not control the family's Norman honour until his father died, there was no existing baronage awaiting rewards in England, and that Hugh instead attracted a following of knights from various parts of Normandy, probably mostly young men of his own generation. A dozen or so of these young men became the core of Hugh's honorial baronage, each with a stake, often a compact fied, in Cheshire. These were backed up by other manors, usually more valuable, elsewhere in the country..[5]

The leader of this honorial baronage was Hughes' older cousin Robert de Tilleul, who was prominent, along with Robert fitz Hugh of Malpas, William Malbanc of Nantwich, William fitz Nigel of Halton, and Hugh fitz Norman of Mold. A good two dozen lesser knightly tenants were endowed either in or beyond Cheshire, but not both. [5]

By 1086, Lewis notes, and probably long before, Hugh had arranged his estates in a clear and distinctive pattern, demonstrating a calculating liberality towards his men. He gave all the southern manors to his knights and kept some fifteen large northern and midland manors in demesne, not all in Cheshire but spaced around the honour, so that it was possible to travel in stages from Macclesfield to Leek, Repton, and Barrow (in Leicestershire), and then either north to the Lincolnshire estates or south to Coventry and Chipping Campden. All were market towns and the centres of large and productive manors.[5]

Other notables in Hugh's honour included Roger (I) Bigod, William de Percy, and sheriffs Robert (I) d'Oilly and Edward of Salisbury. [5]

1081 Conquest of North Wales

Chester was also the base for the conquest of north Wales, in which Earl Hugh was initially an equal partner with Robert of Rhuddlan. By 1086 Hughes had taken into his own hands Bistre and Iâl along the English border. Co-operating closely with the Normans of Shropshire, the earl had raided the distant Lly^n peninsula perhaps as early as the mid-1070s, and in 1081 he first laid a successful trap for one of the north Welsh princes, Gruffudd ap Cynan, and then invaded Gwynedd in force.[5]

Noting Hugh's key companions, Orderic Vitalis records that “Hugonis de Abrincis filio Ricardi cognomento Goz...cum Rodberto de Rodelento et Rodberto de Malopassu” [Robert de Rhuddlan and Robert de Malpas] shed “multum Guallorum sanguinem” . [4]

1082 Death of Hughes' father

Hughes' father died in 1082 and he succeeded as Vicomte d'Avranches [3][4]

Lewis notes that this represented a diversion of the earl's responsibilities in Chester. Lewis also notes that change may have been the occasion for Hughs' marriage. [5]

Cawley notes that an undated charter records the grant of pasturage rights "ad castrum Claromontis, Credulii, Gornaci, Lusarchiarum" to Saint-Leu d’Esserant by "Hugo comes Cestrensis" and "Hugo Claromontensis et Margarita uxor eius", later confirmed by "Rainaldus comes" with the consent of "uxore eius Clementia et filiis eius Guidone et Rainaldo"[28]. [4]

1086 Domesday

Hugh was the only lay tenant-in-chief in Cheshire. All other landlords were under him, except for two clerical ones.

Domesday Book records that “Earl Hugh” held Bickton in Fordinbridge Hundred in Hampshire; Drayton in Sutton Hundred and Buscot in Wyfold hundred in Berkshire; his land-holdings in Dorset; and in numerous other counties. [4]

1090 Cotentin

Hugh's honour extended to the Cotentin in Normandy. William complicated Hugh's life by placing this honour under the authority of William's younger brother, the future Henry I. Earl Hugh was often in Henry's company but maintained an overriding loyalty to the king, acting as a brake on both when their disagreements threatened to become overheated. In 1091, for example, he detached himself from Henry when open war between the brothers looked likely, and thus helped to prevent its happening; and later he was instrumental in Henry's return to favour. [5]

Orderic Vitalis names “Hugonem comitem et Ricardum de Radveriis...Rodbertum de Molbraio” as the main supporters of “Henricus clito” who governed “Abrincas et Cæsarisburgum et Constantiam atque Guabreium” [Avranches, Cherbourg, Coutances, Gavray], dated to [1090][30]. [4]

1091 Scot Campaign

Hughes was also frequently at William II's side, at his courts, and campaigning with him against the Scots in 1091 and on the Norman frontier in 1097–8. [5]

1093 Wales

Robert of Rhuddlan's death at Welsh hands in 1093 left Hugh with prime responsibility for north Wales at the moment when a serious rebellion was breaking out. Hugh did not regain the initiative until 1098, when he and Hugh de Montgomery, earl of Shrewsbury, led a determined assault on Anglesey. [5]

Florence of Worcester records that, in 1098, Hughes and Hugh de Montgommery Earl of Shrewsbury led troops into Anglesey where they mutilated or massacred many of the inhabitants of the island. [4]

Despite Hugh of Shrewsbury's death, Hugh of Chester came away with booty and prisoners, and in the following year was able to install Gruffudd ap Cynan as the client ruler of the island of Anglesey.[5]

1093 Marriage to Ermentrude de Clermont

Before 1093 Hughes married Ermentrude de Clermont, daughter of Hughes de Clermont [en-Beauvaisis] & his wife Marguerite de Roucy [Montdidier]. She died after 13 May 1106. [4] Orderic Vitalis records that “Hugonis de Abrincis filio Ricardi cognomento Goz” married “Ermentrudem filiam Hugonis de Claromonte Belvacensi”. [4] The Genealogiæ Scriptoris Fusniacensis refers to a sister of "comes Rainaldus" as husband of "comiti Hugoni de Cestre"[39]. [4] Ermentrude de Clermont was daughter of Hugues, Comte de Clermont and Marguerite de Montdidier[3][10]

C P Lewis suggests was motivated perhaps to further Norman ambitions beyond the eastern frontier.[5]

Ermentrude was still living in 1106 after her husband's death[4]

Accusations of gluttony and carnal lusts

As Keats-Rohan describes it, Hugh "was the subject of hostile treatment from Orderic Vitalis".[11] Orderic Vitalis states that Hugues was "a slave to gluttony, he staggered under a mountain of fat" and was "given over to carnal lusts and had a numerous progeny of sons and daughters by his concubines"[34]. [4]

Lewis wrote that "The earl revelled in his wealth and status, indulging himself to excess in hunting, war, women, mountains of food, reckless expense, and lavish generosity to the knights and clerks of his household. He fathered many bastards, grew grotesquely fat, and fought the Welsh with a ferocity which embedded him in their memory as Hugh the Wolf. At the same time he was at least conventionally mindful of the perils to his immortal soul, and steadfastly and conspicuously loyal to successive kings."[5]

Patronage

Hugh founded the abbeys of Saint-Sever in Normandy and St Werburg in Chester, becoming a monk at the latter four days before he died. [4][3]

Saint Seveur Abbey in Cotentin

Robert of Torigny's De Immutatione Ordinis Monachorum records that "Hugo vicecomitis Abrincatensis postea…comes Cestrensis" founded "abbatiam Sancti Severi in Constantinensi episcopatu". [4] m mDespite his enduring interests in the Cotentin, however, Earl Hugh owed his significance to the earldom and honour of Chester[5]

Saint Werburg at Chester

Hugh founded the Abbey of St. Werburg at Chester and had apparently been laying plans for his own house at an early date, perhaps after 1075 when his minster church of St Werburgh was challenged in Chester by the relocation into the city's other major church, St John's, of the cathedral seat of the bishop of Lichfield. A crucial stage in the refoundation of St Werburgh's as a Benedictine monastery came in 1092, when Earl Hugh enticed to Chester no less a person than Abbot Anselm of Bec, who brought with him the monks who were to form the basis of the new monastic chapter. A lavish building programme may already have been under way, and the earl shortly endowed Chester Abbey with extensive possessions and encouraged a great many of his barons to give something too.

Final Illness

Hugh fell ill, probably in the autumn of 1100 or the following winter.[5]

"…Hugonis comitis…" subscribed a charter dated 14 Sep 1101 under which Henry I King of England donated property to Bath St Peter[32]. [4]

Monastic vows

On 23 July 1101 he became a monk. [3]

Death

In his last days Hugh took monastic vows at Chester and died in the abbey on 27 July 1101. [5]

The Annales Cestrienses record the death in 1101 of “Hugone comite Cestrensi”[35]. The Annales Cambriæ record the death in 1101 of "Hugo comes Crassus urbis Legionum"[36]. A manuscript narrating the descent of Hugh Earl of Chester to Alice Ctss of Lincoln records the death “VI Kal Aug” of “Hugo primus comes Cestriæ”[37]. [4]

Hugh d'Avranches died 27 July 1101. [12]

Burial

He died on 27 July 1101 at St. Werburg's, Chester, Cheshire, England. <ef name="note2"/> He was buried at St. Werburg's, Chester, Cheshire, EnglandG. [13]

He was buried in St. Werburg's Abbey, Chester on 27 July 1101. [1][4]

He was buried in the abbey churchyard, but his body was later moved by his nephew Earl Ranulph I to the chapter-house. [5]

Succession

Earl Hugh was succeeded by his son Richard, who died in the wreck of the White Ship in 1120.[5]

Issue

Earl Hugh had one confirmed legitimate son by his wife, and several illegitimate children by unknown mistresses. Keats-Rohan wrote that Hugo, Comes de Cestrie was the father of several known bastards including Robert, abbot of Bury and Otuer fitzCount; Geva, wife of Geoffrey Ridel was probably another of them. [11] Both Cawley and Keat-Rohan list the following:[4]

  1. Richard d'Avranches, born 1094 is the only known legitimate son of Earl Hugh. Richard succeeded his father as Earl of Cheshire and was drowned in the sinking of the White Ship in 1120.
  2. Otuel FitzHugh, born, say, 1071, was the son of Hugh d'Avranches and an unknown mistress. He became tutor to the children of King Henry I. Keats-Rohan lists him as Otuer fitzCount [11]
  3. Robert FitzHugh, born, say, 1073, was the son of Hugh d'Avranches and an unknown mistress, became a monk and abbot. Keats-Rohan lists him as Robert, abbot of Bury. [11]
  4. Geva, is considered by Keats-Rohan to be a probable daughter of Hugh d'Avranches and an unknown mistress, born Staffordshire, 1078, married Geoffrey Ridel. [11] (Cawley cites a charter from Canwell priory which clearly describes her this way.) [4]

Other Children with some Documentation

This child is not mentioned in any reliable source and has been disconnected as a daughter of Hugh Lupus.

  1. Tangwystl or Tanglust, illegitimate daughter, born, say 1068. Tanglust's mother is linked as Unknown Dedol . Assuming Tanglust was at least 17, born 1068, when she was given to William in 1085, Dedol should be assumed to have been at least 17, born 1051, when she became Tanglust's mother. Tanglust's birth is presently shown in Kevelioc, Monmouthshire; source required. Tanglust's existence is named by Wolcott[2] but not by Cawley [4] or by Lundy [12] Wolcott writes, that, "to mitigate this intrusion on the Baron of Malpas, Hugh gave one of his base daughters (Tanglust) as wife to William II, the eldest son of Sir William ap Gruffydd of Malpas. [2]

Frauds and Children with No Documentation

These children have been disconnected.

  1. Maud or Matilda Ewyas, born Chester 1068 is also noted by some sources as a child of Hugh d'Avranches, 1st Earl of Chester and his wife Ermentrude de Clermont [10]
  2. William Caryngton, born Cheshire 1075. Fraudulent and Fictional son. Because there is no indication Hugh d'Avranches had such a son, he has been delinked as a son. This profile is currently connected to what the great genealogist J H Round called the "The Carington Imposture", a famous fraudulent pedigree. See his Peerage and Pedigrees Vol. II, starting at page 134. At least some of the people in that pedigree never existed and others are represented inaccurately.

Research Notes

Sir William de Malpas

Wolcott integrates into Earl Hugh's narrative some persons believed by Wolcott to be his relatives, but the relationship is not confirmed by others. Sir William de Malpas is one in particular:

Conquest: Sir William of Malpas serves new Lord

Wolcott notes that Sir William of Malpas was already in Cheshire when the Normans replaced the Saxon rulers. William was then about 40 years old and had 3 sons yet minors; we suggest he continued to serve his new Norman lord just as he had served the Saxon Earls and now held Malpas as a tenant of Earl Hugh.[2]

1085 Lordship of Malpas to Hugh's Son

Wolcott states that about 1085, Earl Hugh settled the Lordship of Malpas (mostly a landlord's income stream, not actual possession of land) on his base son Robert-fitz-Hugh. For Wolcott, the base son, who became a monk and abbot, is the same person as Robert fitz Hugh who was a military companion of Hugh.

1085 Hugh's daughter Tanglust given to William of Malpas

Wolcott states that to mitigate the intrusion on the Baron of Malpas (giving property to Robert FitzHugh), Hugh gave one of his base daughters (Tanglust) as wife to William II, the eldest son of Sir William ap Gruffydd of Malpas. Wolcott adds that the two families (Robert fitz Hugh and the son of Sir William) continued their cordial relationship into the next generation, when a daughter (Mabel) of Robert married William III of Malpas[2]

Tanglust's mother, a supposed mistress of Earl Hugh, is linked as Unknown Dedol . Dedol's birth was shown as 1078, but assuming Tanglust was at least 17, born 1068, when she was given to William in 1085, Dedol should be assumed to have been at least 17, born 1051, when she became Tanglust's mother.

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 Charles Cawley. Foundation for Medieval Genealogy. Medieval Lands Database. Hughes d'Avranches Accessed November 13, 2017 jhd
  2. 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 Darrell Wolcott. Ancient Wales Studies The Malpas family in Cheshire
  3. 3.0 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4 3.5 3.6 3.7 3.8 3.9 G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14 (1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton Publishing, 2000), volume III, pages 164-165. Cited by Darryl Lundy. The Peerage: Hugh Avaranches of Chester Last edited 15 January 2017. Accessed November 14, 2017. jhd
  4. 4.00 4.01 4.02 4.03 4.04 4.05 4.06 4.07 4.08 4.09 4.10 4.11 4.12 4.13 4.14 4.15 4.16 4.17 4.18 4.19 4.20 4.21 4.22 4.23 Charles Cawley. Foundation for Medieval Genealogy. Medieval Lands Database. Earls of Chester Accessed November 13, 2017 jhd
  5. 5.00 5.01 5.02 5.03 5.04 5.05 5.06 5.07 5.08 5.09 5.10 5.11 5.12 5.13 5.14 5.15 5.16 5.17 5.18 5.19 5.20 5.21 5.22 5.23 5.24 5.25 C. P. Lewis.Avranches, Hugh d', first earl of Chester (d. 1101) Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004. Article available on subscription basis only. Article credits C. P. Lewis, ‘The formation of the honor of Chester, 1066–1100’, Journal of the Chester Archaeological Society, 71 (1991), 37–68 [G. Barraclough issue, The earldom of Chester and its charters, ed. A. T. Thacker] · C. P. Lewis, ‘Gruffudd ap Cynan and the Normans’, Gruffudd ap Cynan: a collaborative biography, ed. K. L. Maund (1996), 61–77 · Ordericus Vitalis, Eccl. hist. · A. Farley, ed., Domesday Book, 2 vols. (1783) · D. Bates, William the Conqueror (1989) · F. Barlow, William Rufus (1983) · L. Musset, ‘Les origines et le patrimoine de l'abbaye de Saint-Sever’, La Normandie bénédictine au temps de Guillaume le conquérant, ed. J. Daoust (1969), 357–67 · C. P. Lewis, ‘The early earls of Norman England’, Anglo-Norman Studies, 13 (1990), 207–23 · G. Barraclough, ed., The charters of the Anglo-Norman earls of Chester, c.1071–1237, Lancashire and Cheshire RS, 126 (1988), 23 [no. 13]. Cited by Gordon Banks. [http://www.gordonbanks.com/gordon/family/2nd_Site/geb-p/p301.htm Gordon Banks Family Site. Accessed October 4, 2018 jhd
  6. Harleian Society. The Visitation of Cheshire in the Year 1580, The Publicatons of The Harleian Society (London: The Society, 1882) Vol. 18, Page 4: "The Genealogy of the Earles of Chester. [Harl. 1424, fo. 3. Harl. 1505, fo. 2.]"
  7. Yeatman, John Pym. The Early Genealogical History of the House of Arundel (Mitchell and Hughes, London, 1882) Page 38: "Hugh Lupus, created Earl of Chester 1071 and page 50, further discussion of Hugh's ancestry
  8. Wikipedia, online http;//www.wikipedia.org. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia. Cited by Darryl Lundy. The Peerage: Hugh Avaranches of Chester Last edited 15 January 2017. Accessed November 14, 2017. jhd
  9. In medieval England, an honour could consist of a great lordship, comprising dozens or hundreds of manors. Holders of honours (and the kings to whom they reverted by escheat) often attempted to preserve the integrity of an honour over time, administering its properties as a unit, maintaining inheritances together, etc. The typical honour had properties scattered over several shires, intermingled with the properties of others. This was a specific policy of the Norman kings, to avoid establishing any one area under the control of a single lord. Usually, though, a more concentrated cluster existed somewhere. Here would lie the caput (head) of the honour, with a castle that gave its name to the honour and served as its administrative headquarters. A lordship could consist of anything from a field to vast territories all over England. Thus the designation honour can distinguish the large lordship from the small. The term has particular usefulness for the eleventh and twelfth centuries, before the development of an extensive peerage hierarchy. Wikipedia: Honour (feudal barony)
  10. 10.0 10.1 Werner Kittel, "re: Normandy Families," e-mail message to Darryl Roger LUNDY (101053), 4 February 2011. Hereinafter cited as "re: Normandy Families." Cited by Darryl Lundy. The Peerage: Hugh Avaranches of Chester Last edited 15 January 2017. Accessed November 14, 2017. jhd
  11. 11.0 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 Keats-Rohan, "Hugo Comes De Cestrie" in Domesday People, p.258
  12. 12.0 12.1 Darryl Lundy. The Peerage: Hugh Avaranches of Chester Last edited 15 January 2017. Accessed November 14, 2017. jhd
  13. Peter W. Hammond, editor, The Complete Peerage or a History of the House of Lords and All its Members From the Earliest Times, Volume XIV: Addenda & Corrigenda (Stroud, Gloucestershire, U.K.: Sutton Publishing, 1998), page 170. Hereinafter cited as The Complete Peerage, Volume XIV. Cited by Darryl Lundy. The Peerage: Hugh Avaranches of Chester Last edited 15 January 2017. Accessed November 14, 2017. jhd


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Images: 1
Land held by Earl Hugh as tenant-in-chief in 1086
Land held by Earl Hugh as tenant-in-chief in 1086

Questions

Collaboration

On 14 Nov 2017 at 16:29 GMT Jack Day wrote:

I de-linked "Unknown Dedol" as a wife of Hugh because she was a mistress. The link is retained in the text.

On 20 Apr 2017 at 16:21 GMT Steve Selbrede wrote:

His DOB is probably wrong. His father was born in 1022 and daughter in 1068, so he should be ca1047.

On 21 Sep 2011 at 19:12 GMT Aran Stubbs wrote:

Hugh was born around 1047 to Emma de Conteville, who was born around 1033. He married Erma around 1051 and had at least 2 children by her: Richard and Maud (Matilda), and many children not by her. Hugh was known as le Gros (the fat), and Lupus (for his viciousness towards the Welsh). He became a monk 4 days before his death, but if there is a hell he is burning there.

On 3 Mar 2011 at 14:34 GMT Krissi (Hubbard) Love wrote:

Known as "Vras", "Le Gros", "Lupus".



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