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William (Beauchamp) de Beauchamp (abt. 1154)

William de Beauchamp formerly Beauchamp
Born about in Elmley Castle, Worcestershire, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Son of and [mother unknown]
[spouse(s) unknown]
[children unknown]
Died [date unknown] [location unknown]
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Profile last modified | Created 6 Sep 2014
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Note: the existence of this person is somewhat uncertain, but he represents a serious scholarly proposal.

Biography

He has been detached from Joane Walerie as his mother. See G2G discussion linked to his father's profile.

In this generation different authors have interpreted the records in different ways concerning this profile and also Beauchamp-438, who is sometimes seen as the same person, or a younger brother or a son. There was in any case a period from 1197 until about 1214 at the latest, where at least one minor was at the head of the Beauchamp barony.

H.C. Maxwell Lyte, who wrote the section introductions in the 1920 edition of the so called Book of Fees, or Testa de Nevill, wrote (Vol.1, p.34) concerning the records for 1208-1213:

William de Beauchamp, who is mentioned several times in the list, may be identified with Wilikin de Beauchamp, the the heir of William de Beauchamp who died in 1197. This Wilikin died under age in the summer of 1209, when his lands passed to another minor, Walter, or Watekin, de Beauchamp, who survived until 1236.

Note that Maxwell Lyte does not state the relationship between what he considered to be two different minors. (Most obviously, they might be brothers, given that children do not have children.)

What sources did Maxwell Lyte use in order to conclude that there was a boy named Wilikin? One obvious source is the Book of Fees itself, which he was writing about. In a listing of 1208 William Beauchamps is mentioned as if alive. but could this simply because his lands had not yet been inherited by his heir?

In the Close Rolls of the 9th year of King John (1207/8) we already find Watekin (Walter) de Bello Campo and his marriage being in the hands of Roger de Mortimer, implying he is an heir.[1] But it mentions no death. The Pipe Rolls from King John's time are not online. The Liberate Rolls mention Watekin many times, starting in 1209/10.[2]

According to Charles Cawley's report, the modern Introduction the Beauchamp cartulary also defines William and Walter as brothers.[3]

A possible complication here is that the records about the minor who was heir tend to use a diminutive form of his name, and these diminutives imply different names. Wiliken and Watekin are however similar. Were there really two boys, or only one? Dugdale, for example, apparently thought they were one. A critical aspect of Maxwell Lyte's understanding is that there was a death of one of them in 1209 (which was in the 10th and 11th years of King John's reign).


Sources

  1. Close Rolls 1204-1224 p.168. There are also entries on p.169 and p.170.
  2. Liberate Rolls https://books.google.be/books?redir_esc=y&id=1TwLAAAAYAAJ
  3. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3.htm#WilliamBeauchampdied1197B




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Comments: 7

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FYI, Eyton also thought all the diminutives referred to one boy:

https://books.google.be/books?id=OUpNAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA211

posted by Andrew Lancaster
FMG has Bertha de Braose as the wife of William I, ie grandfather of this William III. Wikitree has William I's wife as Maud de Braose. So shall we detach Bertha from this profile and merge her with Maud on William I's profile? On another topic, what is the approximate DOB for this profile?
I am guessing someone got mixed up with the dimunitives Wilikin (William) versus Watekin or Walchelin, by which I mean that I wonder if this profile needs to be merged with Walter, it's son. But how did someone find a wife for this person???
posted by Andrew Lancaster
How can a minor have a child? Sanders, English Baronies p.76 makes Walter a son of Beauchamp-440
posted by Andrew Lancaster
YOU HAVE WILLIAM BEAUCHAMP -1154- AS WILLIAM III

AND THERE IS A William III (Beauchamp) de Beauchamp -1210- ALSO AS A WI LLIAM III.WHICH IS CORRECT?

posted by Joyce (Smith) Fischer

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Categories: House of Beauchamp | Early Barony of Salwarpe