Philippa Bonville

Philippa Bonville (abt. 1424)

Privacy Level: Open (White)
Philippa Bonville
Born about in Jacobstow, Cornwall, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Daughter of [uncertain] and [uncertain]
Wife of — married after [location unknown]
Wife of — married before [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died [date unknown] [location unknown]
Profile last modified | Created 6 Aug 2010
This page has been accessed 7,560 times.

Contents

Parents

The visitations reads: "Theobald Grenvile m. Margaret, da. of Hugh Courtney, Earl of Devon. They had issue: William Grenvile, brother and hey to Sir John, temp. H. IV. , died circa 29 Hen. Vi. - who married Phillip, sister to the Lord Bondvile, 2 wife." (Phillip and William had issue: 1.Thos. Grevile, fil et heres- who married Elizabeth, sister to Theobald Gorges, Kt. 2. Margery, mar. John Thorne, vide Visit. Devon 1620, Harl. MS. 1163."

From H.O.P. (http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/bonville-sir-william-ii-1392-1461) "BONVILLE, Sir William II (1392-1461), of Chewton-Mendip, Som. and Shute, Devon. 1 s. of John Bonville (d.v.p. 1396, 1st s. of Sir William Bonville I*) by Elizabeth, da. and h. of John Fitzroger of Chewton-Mendip. m. (1) c.1414, Margaret (d. aft. 1426), da. of Reynold, Lord Grey of Ruthin, 1s. 3da.; (2) bef. Oct. 1430, Elizabeth (d. 24 Oct. 1471), da. of Edward Courtenay, earl of Devon, by Maud, da. of Thomas, Lord Camoys, wid. of John, Lord Harington of Aldingham in Furness and Porlock, Som. 1s. illegit. suc. gdfa. Feb. 1408; mother Apr. 1414. Kntd. c.1416; cr. Lord Bonville of Chewton 10 Mar. 1449; KG 8 Feb. 1461.2.

In 1427 Bonville’s activities at home were the subject of a royal commission of oyer and terminer. .. Bonville’s second marriage, which took place some time between then and October 1430, required the procurement of a papal dispensation, because his new wife, Elizabeth, was already a godmother of one of his daughters. The marriage was later to have important political consequences, but its immediate effect was Sir William’s acquisition of large dower estates and the increase of the range of his kinship among the nobility. He was now connected with William, Lord Harington (his wife’s brother-in-law), and with Thomas Courtenay, earl of Devon (her nephew). These ties were to be strengthened by the marriage of Bonville’s son and heir, William, to Lord Harington’s only child, and of two of his daughters, Philippa and Margaret, respectively to William Grenville (a grandson of Sir Hugh Courtenay* of Haccombe) and William Courtenay (son of Sir Philip Courtenay† of Powderham, Bonville’s friend and fellow MP of 1427, and grandson of Walter Hungerford*). Bonville’s third daughter, Elizabeth, married outside these related families, her husband being Sir William Tailboys† de jure Lord Kyme."

In the nineteenth century and earlier, based on The Visitations of the County Cornwall, and Sir William Pole's pedigree of the Grenville family in 'Collections Towards a Description of the County of Devon- Philippa Bonville was documented to have been the daughter of William Bonville KG (1393-1461) and his first wife Margaret Grey (who was descended from six Magna Carta surety barons).[1] More recently, Lewis Weis and Douglas Richardson moved back Philippa's parents to the previous generation, making Philippa daughter of William's father John Bonville (1371-1396).[2] Richardson did this in passing, without discussing his reasoning or sources. The parentage of Philippa Bonville continues to be controversial, but some people have speculated that John Bonville was either Philippa's father or her grandfather.

There are three principal sources that shed light on Philippa's identity and parentage, and a fourth that reveals less than has been assumed:

  1. Sir William Pole's pedigree of the Grenville family in his Collections Towards a Description of the County of Devon, p. 387.
  2. The Grenville pedigree in the 1620 Cornwall Visitation.
  3. The stained-glass window panels in the church in Petrocstowe, Devon, that were apparently installed by widow Philippa Grenville in the 1450s.
  4. The manor of Swannacott and other land in the parish of Week St. Mary, allegedly in the possession of William Bonville in 1461 and definitely in the possession of Richard Granville in 1591.

Sir William Pole's Grenville Pedigree

The antiquarian Sir William Pole (d. 1635) compiled a pedigree of the Grenville family sometime in the early decades of the 17th century, which was eventually published in 1791, long after his death, in Collections Towards a Description of the County of Devon, p. 387. This pedigree states (p. 387) that: "Henry Grenvill died possessed of Bideford, anno 1 of Kinge Edw. 3 ; & Theobald was his sonne & heire. Sr Theobald Grenvill, sonne of Sr Theobald, maried Margaret, daughter of Hugh Courtenay, Erle of Devon, widowe of John Lord Cobham, & had issue Sr John, & Willam. Sr John maried [Margaret], daughter & [co]heire of Sr John Burgherst, but died wthout issue. William Grenville his brother married Thomazin, and unto his 2d wief Phelip, daughter of William Lord Bonville, & had issue Sr Thomas, wch by Elisabeth, sister of Sr Theobald Gorges, had issue Sr Thomas, wch by Isabell his 1 wief, daughter of Otho Gilbard, of Cumpton, had issue Roger & Richd ; his 2 wief was ........ daughter of ...... Tons, & widow of Hille, of Taunton, by whom hee had issue John."

It appears that William Pole was in disagreement regarding his own pedigree for the Grenville family, and that given by Bernard Grenville in the 1620 Cornwall Visitation (https://ukga.org/england/Cornwall/visitations/ page 190, which also shows Phillip, sister to the Lord Bondvile, 2 wife"- it neglects to say which Lord Bondvile). Pole mentions (p. 388) a Grenville pedigree in the possession of Bernard Grenville, which Pole criticizes, listing differences (see transcription): "The petegree, wch is in the custody of Sr Barnard Grenvill, Concordes not wth this of myne; for I finde not any Thomas Grenvill, of Bideford, beinge the 3 in yt petegree, nor any Sr Willam, beinge the 5, nor Willam, the father of Sr Bartholmew ; but in Somersetshire their was Sr Thomas Grenvill, in Kinge Henry 2 tyme, & at yt very tyme Richard Grenvill held Bideford.

In Buckinghamshire their is a famyly of Grenvill, wch hath contynewed their (as the heire of the howse reported unto me) from the Conquest.. This Grenvill giveth a coate of armes, differinge from yt of Bideford ; vid. Vert, on a playne crosse Argent 5 torteaux. The discent sett downe by mee is by records ; and I conclude wth this addicion, yt it will bee very hard to finde, in all England, twoe gentlemen's famylies soe neere inhabitinge together, & contynewinge soe long possessed of lands as these two ; Coffin, of Alwington, & Grenvill, of Bideford."

Birth Year

Being that Philippa was shown in sources as the daughter of William Bonville and Margaret Grey, she would have been born after their marriage at the end of 1414 (author Douglas Richardson lists that as the year of the marriage- and I am searching for actual primary sources for this date). Philippa's son Thomas was married by 1447 and recognized as his father's heir in 1449, shortly before his father's death (his mother was remarried by 1451). Thomas's birth is generally estimated as around 1430. If Philippa was born in 1415, eldest child of William and Margaret, then she would have been fifteen years old in 1430, the approximate birth year of son Thomas.

Magna Carta Descent

Author Douglas Richardson's Magna Carta Ancestry mentions in passing that Philippe Bonville as the wife of William Grenville and daughter of John Bonville and Elizabeth FitzRoger (who is descended from more than one Magna Carta surety baron).[3] Richardson gives no information about her descendants, but the Grenville lineage is well-established from other sources. Margaret Grey, apparently the mother of Philippa, has many descents from Magna Carta barons.

Second wife of William Grenville

"The arms of William Grayneville, together with those of his second wife [Bonville], were in Kilkhampton Church, on a hatchment of stucco." William Grenville married Philippa (as his second wife) some time after "the feast of St. John ante portum Latinam [May 6], 5th Henry VI [1427]," when William Grenville's first wife Thomasine appears in an indenture made between William and John Cole.[4] This conclusion depends on the assumption that Thomasine Cole was the first wife, and not the mother, of William Grenville.

Per the Yeo Society website, Philippa had a stained-glass window installed in St. Petrock's Church, Petrockstowe, Devon, showing the Grenville and Bonville arms, around 1450 (the time of William Grenville's death).

"...by his second wife, Philippa, he left issue one son Thomas, who succeeded him, and two daughters, viz., Margaret, the wife of John Thorne, and Ellena, who was married to William Yeo…. According to old deeds and family records, his son Thomas was the first of the family who altogether dropped the pronoun ‘de’ which had hitherto been a prefix to the surname, although both of the last two representatives of the family had sometimes omitted it.” [5]

I received a warning when updating: Warning: Check the data. A child's birth date (Grenville-96 born 1427) should not be before a parent is six years old (Bonville-4 born 1424) .The profile manager of that child needs source info to check their dates. From the profile of (child Grenville-96, attached to Phillipa, there is a message on the page: How could Ellen Grenville be born about 1405 when her first husband, William Yeo, was born in 1428? This is according to the exact source (William Yeo and Ellen Grenville, at the Yeo Family Society website) you're using for this WikiTree profile.

Husband John de Almescombe

“He [William Grenville] died before 29th Henry VI [1451], for in that year John de Almescombe and Philippa his wife, late the wife of William de Graynvil, had a grant from John de Copleston and others of lands in Wildhays and Guakmore.” [6]


Sources

  1. See the list of additional references in the Sources section.
  2. Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, Royal Ancestry series, 2nd edition, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham, (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2011), 1:254.
  3. Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, Royal Ancestry series, 2nd edition, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham, (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2011), 1:253-54
  4. Roger Granville, The History of the Granville Family (1895), p. 57.
  5. Roger Granville, The History of the Granville Family (1895), p. 57.
  6. Roger Granville, The History of the Granville Family (1895), p. 57.

See also

See also:

Lake & Hotton, A Complete Parochial History of the County of Cornwall, Compiled from the Best Authorities & Corrected and Improved from Actual Survey. v. 2 (1868): p. 372 (author identifies Sir William Grenville’s second wife, Philippa, as “daughter of William, Lord Bonville de Chuton.”).

Burke, A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry; or, Commoners of Great Britain and Ireland v. 3 (1838): p. 4 (author states, “William Granville, of Stow, who died about the year 1450, leaving by Philippa, his second wife, daughter of William, Lord Bonville.”).

Dudley, A Supplement to the Peerage of England (1716): p. 243 (author states, “William, his Brother and Heir, to succeed, who died about the 29th of Henry VI. , leaving issue, by Philippa, his second wife, Daughter of William Lord Bonville, Thomas, his Son and Heir.”).

Gilbert, An Historical Survey of the County of Cornwall: To Which is Added a Complete Heraldry of the Same, with Numerous Engravings v. 2 (1820): p. 507 (author states, “William, his brother and heir, to succeed him, who died about the twenty-ninth of Henry VI, leaving issue by Philippa, his second wife, daughter of William Lord Bonville, Thomas his son and heir.”).

Fox, Chronicles of Tonedale: Two Centuries of Family History (1879): pp. 46-47a (Appendix V ped.) (author identifies in generation 5, “Philippa, daughter of William Lord Bonville, of Chuton, 2nd wife.”).


Further discussions

The author Douglas Richardson has stated, "While I certainly respect Pole, he is not infallible. He makes Philippe the daughter of Lord Bonville. I should note that Pole was writing in a later period than the published visitation. In this case, I would give the visitation greater weight than Pole." And this is his primary basis for considering William Bonville to be Philippa's brother (not her father), although Richardson goes on to say, "I still have an open mind about this matter. Should additional evidence turn up, I'm more than willing to consider other possibilities."[7] Additional evidence has indeed turned up (see the discussion of the stained glass window below). Furthermore, Richardson appears to be in error regarding which pedigree, Pole's or Grenville's, is older. It is clear from the 1604 letter from William Pole, published on pp. iv-vi of the introduction to his Collections Towards a Description of the County of Devon, that he was already hard at work on this project, sixteen years before Bernard Grenville gave his pedigree to the Visitation herald.

The 1620 Grenville Pedigree

The Grenville pedigree in the 1620 Cornwall Visitation, and "Collections Towards a Description of the County of Devon", both identify Philippa as a Bonville.

(Note: I am adding all of these entries so that helpers can suss out the information, and hopefully piece these pieces together. The entries all pertain to this family, and by giving each one I, or someone else, may spot something that untangles the confusion. Please don't delete these transcribed entries- they took a LOT of time, and they are valuable to have in one spot so to limit having to flip back and forth between various pages).

The entries (transcribed) from "Collections Towards a Description of the County of Devon".

Transcribed material

Page 9 (page 36 in pdf) shows: "Hugh Courtenay 3. and second of that name Erle of Devonshire, maried Margaret, daughter of Humphry de Bohun, Erle of Hereford & Essex, & of Elizabeth his wief, daughter unto Kinge Edw. 1. by whom hee had issue, Hugh, Sr Edward, Sr Phillip, of Powderham, Sr Thomas, yt died wthout issue, Will'm Archbisshop of Canterbury, Sr Peter, and Sr Humphry, and John. Hee had alsoe many daughters, Elizabeth, first maried unto Sr Andrew Loterell, and 2, unto Sr John de Vere; Marg'et, wief of John Lo. Cobham, and 2, of Sr Theobald Grenvill ; Joane, wief of Sr John Chiverston ; Katherine, wief of Thomas Lo. Engayn ; Matild, Elinor, Gwennora, Isabell, & Phillip. Hee died in the 51 yeere of Kinge Edw. 3, & lieth buried in St. Peter's at Excetr. Hugh Lord Courtenay maried Flizabeth, daughter of ye Lo. Guy de Brian, & had issue Hugh, wch maried Jone, daughtr of Tho. Holland, Erle of Kent, half sister by her mother unto King Richard the 2. Hee had no issue by her, & shee was maried unto therle of St. Pawle. His father died in his grandfather's lief tyme, & he very shortly after."

On page 328 (of that same book, page 355 of the pdf), it states: "-"RADFORD. 'Radford WilPm Le Abbe held anno 27 of Kinge Henry 3 ; Robert de Radford, wch had issue Henry, wch by Matild his wief had issue Walter. John Harris dwelled at Radford in King Henry 6 tyme, & had issue John, wch had issue John, wch had issue John & John. The elder John dwelled at Radford, & had issue Frances, wch by Phelip, daughter of Sr Thomas Grenvill, had issue Willam, wch married Katerine, daughter, & on of heires of Henry Esse, alias Trekarell, of Trekarell, & had issue Christofer Harris, Kt, & Jane, wief of John Harris, of Lanrest, in Cornwall. Sr Christofer Harris, of Radford English, died wthout issue, after whose death Radford came unto Christofer, sonne of John Harris, by Jone, daughter & heire of Robert Hart, wch John was sonne of Jone, sister of ye sayd Sr Christofer Harris, cosen & heire of Sr Christofer, [which] died alsoe wthout issue, & John Harris his brother now dwelleth at Radford."

Page 341 (page 368 of pdf): "forde, or fitzford. Forde, called Fitzford ; of ye inhabitants, John Fitz, of Fitzforde, had issue John, Walter, & Roger. John died wthout issue. Walter his brother married Mary, daughter of ____ Samson, & had issue John & Robert. John Fitz married Agnes, daughter of Roger Grenvill, of Stowe, & had issue John, Edward, & George. John married Mary, daughter of Sr John Sidenham, of Brimpton, in Somersetshire, Kt & had issue John, Kt, wch had unto his wief Gertrude, daughter of Sr Willam Courtenay, of Powderham, & had issue [Mary], first married unto Sr Alan Percy, 2, unto [Thomas], sonne & heire of Thomas Lord Darcy, Erile of Rivers, 3, unto Sr [Charles] Howard, sonne unto Thomas Erle of Suffolk, and hath issue by hym twoe daughters, &, 4, unto Sr Richard Grenvill, Kt & Baronet, & hath issue by hym."

Page 342 (page 369 of pdf) shows: "John Tremayne, 28 of Kinge Edw. 3 ; whom successively have followed, Thomas, Nicolas, in Kinge Henry 4 tyme, Thomas, Nicas, Thomas, John, Thomas, wch by Phelip, daughter of Roger Grenvill, had issue Roger, Edmond, Nicas & Andrew, twynnes & both slayne at Newhaven, anno 6 of Queene Elisab. Richard, doctor of divynyty, threasurer of the church of St Peter's, John, Digory."

Page 387/388 (page 414/415 of pdf) shows: "Henry Grenvill died possessed of Bideford, anno 1 of Kinge Edw. 3 ; & Theobald was his sonne & heire. Sr Theobald Grenvill, sonne of Sr Theobald, maried Margaret, daughter of Hugh Courtenay, Erle of Devon, widowe of John Lord Cobham, & had issue Sr John, & Willam. Sr John maried [Margaret], daughter & [co]heire of Sr John Burgherst, but died wthout issue. Willam Grenvill his brother maried Thomazin, & unto his 2 wief Phelip, daughter of Willam Lord Bonvill, & had issue Sr Thomas, wch by Elisabeth, sister of Sr Theobald Gorges, had issue Sr Thomas, wch by Isabell his 1 wief, daughter of Otho Gilbard, of Cumpton, had issue Roger & Richd ; his 2 wief was ..... daughter of ...... Tons, & widow of ...... Hille, of Taunton, by whom hee had issue John. Roger married Margaret, daughter & coheire of Richard Whitley, of Essord, & had issue Sr Richard, Digory, & John. Sr Richard maried Matild, daughter & coheire of John Beavill, of Gwarnock, & had issue Roger, wch by Thomazin, daughter of Thomas Cole, of Slade, had issue Sr Richard, wch by Mary, daughter of Sr John Sant Liger, of Annery, had issue Sr Barnard, & John, wch died wthout issue. Sr Barnard Grenvill maried Elisabeth, daughter & heire of Phillip, & neipce & heire of Sr Wilhn Beavill, & hath issue Beavill Grenvill, Sr Richard, & others. Beavill Grenvill, Esquier, hath maried ..... daughter of Sr George Smythe, of Exceter, by his 2 wief, daughter & coheire of Willam Viell, & hath, issue."

Page 429 (456 of pdf) shows: "John Blunt, Wch had issue Alis, wief of Willam Sturvy, wch died wthout issue, soe as this mannor came wholy unto the heires of Elisabeth, wief of Sr Oliver St John, of Pennaiks, & was given unto Edward St John, a younger sonne, whose da. & heire ..... was maried unto Nicolas Arondell, of Trerise, by whom shee had issue Sr John, & Alexander, & Leonard. Sir John maried Anne, daughter of Sr Walter Moyle, of Kent, & had issue Sr John, Nicolas, & Walter. John maried Jane, daughter of Sr Thomas Grenvill, & had issue Sr John, wch maried his 1 wief Katerin, daughter & coheire of Piers Beavill, & had issue Roger, and Katerin, wief of Richard Prideaux, of Theoburgh ;. his 2 wief was Julian, daughter of James Erisie, & had by her issue John,,unto whom hee convayed his estate ; wheruppon greate suites contynevved many yeeres. John Arondell, of Trerise, sonne of Sr John, by Julian Erisie, maried, 1, Katerin, daughter and heire of John Coswarth, by whom hee had issue 4 daughters ; his 2 wief was Gertrude, daughter of Sr Robert Dennys, of Holcomb, & had issue John, & Thomas. John Arondell, of Trerise, is nowe Lord of Lapford, & hath maried .... daughter of George Cary, of Clavelly, Patron of the church of Lapford is John Arondell, of Trerise, . Esq. ; valewed 15!."


Problems with the 1620 Grenville Pedigree (according to some, based on the above entries of the mentioned book, Collections Towards a Description of the County of Devon)

1. in the ancestry of Theobald Grenville (husband of Jois Beaumont), the 1620 Grenville pedigree (Link to reference?) shows Theobald's father as Bartholomew. Theobald's father was actually Henry (reference?), and grandfather Bartholomew. (This pedigree also has other differences further up the tree, as noted in the 17th century by Sir William Pole.)[8] (updated note): I am not seeing "Theobald Grenville (husband of Jois Beaumont) in this material (which the original profile manager referenced as p.388). There is mention of some of the Beaumont family (though, not Jois) on page 397 (page 424 of pdf), which reads (regarding the estate at ashford):

"Est Ashford, Thomas de Bello Monte held in Kinge Henry 2 tyme ; & [it] contynewed many discents in the name & famyly of Beaumont, & by Jone, sister of the whole bloode, unto Phillip Beamont, it came unto Sr John Basset, gave this mannor unto James Courtenay, youngest sonne of Sr Willam Courtenay, wth ...... his daughter, by whom shee had issue James, & John. James had issue James, & hee on other James, & the last had diverse children, but the whole line of the 2 James was quite extinguislied, & the land came unto James, the sonne of John, second sonne of the first James, wch left on daughter called ....... married unto John Moore, Esq."

as well as mention of the Beaumont (and Courtenay) family(ies) on page 403/404 (page 430/431 of pdf), in regards to Ralegh:

"Ralegh lieth in the parish of Pilton, thauncient scite & dwellinge of yt name ; hee is aunciently written de Ralega, and de Raleia. Walter de Raleia, Willam, Sr Willam, Sr Willam, Sr Thomas, Willam, Thomas, & John Ralegh, wch had issue Thomasine, wief unto John Chichester ; they had issue John, wch by Aiis, daughter & heire of John Woolton, of Widworthy, had issue Richard, wch by Margaret, daughter of Nicolas Keynes, of Winkley, had issue Nicolas, which by Cristian, daughter of Sr Willam Powlet, of Henton St George, had issue John, wch by Margaret, daughter & heire of Hughe Beaumont, had issue Edward, & by Jone his 2 wief, daughter of Robert Bret, of Pillond, had issue [Amias], of Arlington, & John, of Widworthy. Edward maried [Elizabeth], daughter of John Bourchier, Erle of Bathe, & had issue Sr John, wch by [Gertrude], daughter of Sir Willam Courtenay, had issue Sr John, Arthur Lord Chichester, of Belfast, Sr John, slayne in Ireland, & Edward Vicont Chichester, of Caerfergus. Sr John Chichester maried [Anne], daughter of Sr Robert Dennys, & had issue Sr Robert, wch by his first wief [Frances], sister & heire of John Lord Harrington, had issue [Anne], maried unto [Thomas Lord Kinloss], & by his 2 wief, ........ daughter of Robert Hill, some tyme of Shilston, had issue John, the Kinge's warde. "

Page 408 (page 435 in pdf) shows: "'John Beaumont, by Alis his wief, had issue Willam, Joane, & Elisabeth. Willam & Elilisabeth died wthout issue, in the lief tyme of Alis their grandmother. Joane was maried unto Sr James Chidlegh, but died wthout issue ; shee convayed her land unto Richard Beaumont, & Sr John Beaumont his sonne, wch Richard was sonne of Willlam Beamont, of Sebriscort, brother of Phillip, of Sherwill. Sr John Beamont maried Joane, the heire of Crawthorn & Stockhey, & had issue Willam. The said Jone, after the death of Sr John Beamont, was maried unto Sr Willam Esturmy. Willam Beaumont, sonne of Sr John, had unto his wief Isabell, sister & heire of Raph, & John Willington, & had issue Sr Thomas, wch by Philippa, daughter of Sir John Dinham, had issue Willam, Phillip, & Jone, wief of John Basset; his 2 wief was Alis, da. of Hugh Stewkley, of Asseton, & had issue Thomas, Hugh, & John. Willam Beamont, of Shirwell, maried Jone, daughter of Sr Willam Courtenay, of Powderham ; shee was, secondly, married unto Henry Bodrugan ; after his death Phillip his brother was lord of Shirwell, & dwelled at Yolston; hee maried Blanch, daughter of Willam Bourchier, Lo. Fitz Warren, & died wthout issue; & his wief, after his death, took unto her husband Bartholmew Sant Liger, wch held Yolston & Sherwell, beinge his wief's joynture ; this Phillip convayed all his land unto John Dennys, John Reigny, & John Incledon, unto the use of males of his body. Thomas Beaumont his brother, by the father's side, & the heires males of his body, the remainder unto the right heires of himself ; hee died wthout issue, & Thomas his half brother was seized of his lands, & died wthout issue; this Thomas, in his lief tyme, receyved five hundred pounds of Richard Chichester, of Ralegh, & procured John Dennys, the surviving feoffee, to make a conveyance of the land unto the use of his brother Hugh, 8c of Margaret his daughter, maried unto John Chichester, grandchild of the sayd Richard, wch conveyance was contrary unto the trust reposed in the feoffees. After the death of Hugh Beaumont on John, the fonne of Jone Bodrugan, yt was wief of Willam, the eldest sonne of Sr Thomas Beamont, claymed the land, as sonne & heire of Willam Beaumont, & John Basset, the fonne of Joane, sister of the whole bloode of Willam & Phillip Beaumont, made alsoe title unto the same ; & Margaret Chichester, as daughter & heire of Hugh Beamont, challenged all the land by ye conveyance made by Dennys ; whereof diverse suites were at common lawe, ye Chancery, & in ye Coorte of Parliament, from whenc a decree was published, & proclamation, yt the said John, the sonne of Jone Bodragan, was to bee reputed a bastard, alsoe, by the favour of the Lord Dawbeney, Basset gott a decree in the Chancery for the said land. At the last, a finall conclusion was accorded, yt Chichester shoold have Yolston, Sherwill, & other land, to the valew of 'twoe hundred marks of old rent; and John, the sonne of Jone Bodrugan (whose posterity called themselves Beamont), should have Giddesham, & soe much other land as amounted unto two hundred mark of yeerly rent ; the residewe Basset had, a great part whereof hee gave unto the Lord Dawbeney, & the heires males of his body, wch retorned unto the heires of Basset, after the death of the Erle of Bridgewater. Thus Yolston & Sherwell descended in the howse & name of Chichester unto Sr Robert Chichester, whose sonne John is nowe the Kinge's ward.

Patron of the church of Shirwell ys the heire of Sr Robert Chichester ; va- 113 lewed 30l. 3b. 11d."

Page 422/423 (page 449/450 of pdf) shows: "Sr Raph Willington, by Julian (wch I take to bee daughter & heire of Sr Richard de Lomene, for all the lands of Lomen descended in her issue), had issue Sr John, Sir Reginald, & Sir Henry. Sr John had issue Sr Raph, wch maried Elianor, daughter of John Lord Mohun, & died w,kout issue. Sr Reginald Willinton died wthout issue. Sir Henry Willinton, Knight Baneret, tooke parte against Kinge Edw. the 2, and was executed; hee had issue by Margaret, daughter of Sr Alexander Frevill, Sr Henry, wch by Ifabell, the daughter of Sr John Whalesborow, had issue Sr John, & Thomas. Sr John, by Matild, daughter of Sr Walter Carmyno, had issue Raph, John, [both] wthout issue, Margaret, wief of John, lonne of Sr John Wrothe, & Isabell wief of Willam Beaumont. John Wrothe, by ye said Margaret, had issue Elisabeth, wief of Sr Willam Palton, by whom hee had Umberlegh; Sr Willam, sonne of Sr William & Elizabeth, had issue Sr Wm Palton, of Umberlegh, which maried Anne, daughter of Sr Phillip Courtenay, & died wthout issue, by wch meanes Umberlegh, & the rest of Wellington's lands, fell unto Sr Thomas Beamont, sonne of Willam Beamont, & Isabell Willington. Sr Thomas had 2 wiefs, the first, Phillip, daughter of Sr John Dinham, from whom Basset deriveth his petegree, descended from Jone, sister of the whole bloode, unto Willam, & Phillip Beamont, & this Womberlegh belongeth unto Sr Robert Basset, & Arthur his sonne ; but Aderington beinge mortgaged unto Arthur Lo. Chichester, Edward Lord Chichester his brother enjoyeth the fame.

Patron of the church of Aderington was Sr Robert Basset ; valewed 26l. 6s 1d."

2. This pedigree (page 387) shows the wife of William Grenville's son Thomas to be Elizabeth, sister of Theobald Gorges. It is impossible that Elizabeth could have been Theobald's sister, because Theobald Gorges's father died around 1404 (Reference material showing dates- and why it's impossible?), and Thomas Grenville was born around 1430 (Reference?). Elizabeth Gorges is now generally considered to have been Theobald Gorges' daughter (By whom? Reference?)--her only logical placement in the Gorges pedigree, but proof is lacking.

3. The 1620 Grenville pedigree (link to reference?) shows William Grenville's wife to be a Philippa, who is the sister of Lord William Bonville. And on page 387 of "Collections Towards a Description of the County of Devon" it shows (as shown above in transcribed material) that Phillipa is the daughter of Lord Willam Bonville.

Philippa Bonville is placed as William Bonville's daughter, as his father died in 1396 (Reference for date?). If Philippa Bonville was born by 1396 (or 1397 at the latest), then she would have been around 30 at her first known marriage to William Grenville. There has been speculation that she had an unknown first husband with unknown children, but there is no evidence to support this. (For whatever it is worth, all of the wives of Grenvilles in the 1620 pedigree were identified as daughters of their fathers, except for Philippa Bonville and Elizabeth Gorges, both of whose fathers were prominent Yorkists.)

4. This pedigree (Link to reference material?) shows William Grenville, husband of Philippa, as the son of the younger Theobald Grenville, and also gives William a childless first wife Thomasine Cole. As discussed by Joe Cochoit in this free space page, it seems more likely that Philippa's husband William was the son of another William (the son of Theobald born before--perhaps well before--1380), presumably by his wife Thomasine Cole. (The grandmother of Bernard Grenville, who reported the Grenville pedigree to the heralds in 1620, was also named Thomasine Cole, from the same Cole family.)

5. The 1620 Grenville pedigree states that Theobald Grenville married "Margaret, daughter of Hugh Courteney and Matilda Beaumont." The Courtenay pedigree in Vivivan's Visitations of Cornwall (1887), p. 107 states that Margaret Courtenay daughter of Hugh Courtenay of Haccombe, was the wife of Theobald Grenville This Hugh Courtney also had a son, Hugh Courtney, of Bocconoc Courtenay-37- who would be the brother of Margaret). Vivian states in the Grenvile pedigree on page 190 (see chart attached to this profile) that Theobald's wife was Margaret Courtenay, daughter of Hugh Courtenay, the 2nd Earl of Devon. The visitation does not state that Hugh Courtenay was the 2nd Earl of Devon. The visitations reads: "Theobald Grenvile m. Margaret, da. of Hugh Courtney, Earl of Devon. They had issue: William Grenvile, brother and hey to Sir John, temp. H. IV. , died circa 29 Hen. Vi. - who married Phillip, sister to the Lord Bondvile, 2 wife." (Phillip and William had issue: 1.Thos. Grevile, fil et heres- who married Elizabeth, sister to Theobald Gorges, Kt. 2. Margery, mar. John Thorne, vide Visit. Devon 1620, Harl. MS. 1163."


Why Would Bernard Granville Lie?
Thoughts by John Schmeeckle

In 1620 a herald visited Cornwall and recorded pedigrees and coats arms, including those of the Grenville family. The Grenvilles had not been recorded in the earlier Cornwall visitations of 1530 and 1573, nor in the Devon visitations of 1531 or 1564. There would seem to have been good reasons--multiple beheadings of Bonville and Grey relatives, including Lady Jane Grey (who had been Queen of England for nine days), for the Grenvilles to avoid advertising their family connections.

The 1530 Cornwall Visitation took place five years after the death of the last Yorkist pretender to the throne, Richard de la Pole. The head of the Grenville family in 1530, Sir Richard Grenville (1495-1550), would not have wanted to advertise that he was descended from two prominent Yorkists, Sir Theobald Gorges and Baron William Bonville, who was beheaded for treason just months after he witnessed the same-day beheading of his son and grandson (both named William). Thus was extinguished the Bonville family, except for grandson William's infant daughter Cecily.

Sir William Bonville's father-in-law was Reynald Grey, the great-grandfather of Thomas Grey, who married Cecily Bonville, the sole surviving member of the Bonville family. This couple's great-granddaughter was Lady Jane Grey, who was Queen of England for nine days and then got beheaded in 1554 along with her father. In other words, the Grenvilles had some dangerous family associations, which they presumably preferred not to share with the King's inquisitive representatives during the sixteenth century.

Things had changed by the 1620 visitation, with a different dynasty on the throne, and Bernard Grenville, then the head of the family, presumably wanted official sanction for his coat of arms with its marvelous 53 quarterings.

In the Grenville pedigree, every wife of a Grenville was identified as the daughter of a man, with two exceptions: Philippa Bonville and Elizabeth Gorges were both identified as sisters of their Yorkist fathers. (In the case of Philippa Bonville, this had the result of cutting the problematic Grey family out of the Grenville family tree.)

Perhaps Bernard Grenville wasn't being strictly dishonest, but rather making a coded point about his ancestry.

The Stained Glass Window Panels in Petrockstow Church

Per the Yeo Society website, Philippa Grenville had these stained glass windows installed in St. Petroc's Church in Petrockstowe, Devon around 1450" celebrating the marriage of her daughter to William Yeo, which includes the Yeo, Grenville, Bonville & Jeue coat of arms." (William Yeo's mother was Alice Jeue.) This dates the stained glass windows to some time after 1445, which means after Philippa's presumed father William Bonville had become a baron.

The two coats of arms on top

The windows display two smaller coats of arms at the top; each of which is above a panel of four larger coats of arms.

Both of the shields at the top show Grenville combined with another family, indicating a marriage. According to the norms of heraldry, the coat of arms on the left, representing the husband, "impales" the coat of arms on the right, representing the wife.

The top shield on the left shows Bonville (Sable, six mullets argent pierced gules) impaling Grenville (Gules, three clarions or). This reverses the customary order, although this conjoined coat of arms can only represent the marriage of Philippa Bonville and William Grenville. (There was no other marriage between a Bonville and a Grenville in the 15th Century.)

The reason for this reversed order (Bonville on the left of the shield instead of on the right) is presumably because, at the time, Bonville was a much more prominent family than Grenville. Philippa's father William Bonville had become a baron in 1349 (after Philippa's marriage), and the Grenvilles had no noble title. Evidence for this reverse order can be found in Joseph Edmondson's A Complete Body of Heraldry (1780), p. 337, which states, "Our heraldic authors say there are three rules to be observed in impaling the arms of husband and wife. First the husband’s arms are always to be placed on the right side as baron, and the wife’s on the left as femme … In answer to the first of these rules, it hath been said, that, if the woman’s arms are of greater dignity than those of the husband, they may be placed on the right side.”

Bonville impaling Grenville appears to give clear evidence that Philippa was the daughter of William, Baron Bonville. This representation of Bonville impaling Grenville also helps date the installation of the window: it must have happened before the beheading of William Bonville in 1461 and presumably before the beheading of his son and grandson in 1460 (and likely before the eruption of the Bonville/Courtenay feud in 1455).

The top coat of arms on the right can only show the marriage of Philippa's son and heir Thomas Grenville to Elizabeth Gorges. This shield shows Grenville (Gules, three clarions or) impaling Gorges (azure, a chevron argent between three whirlpools [echoing the ancient Gorges arms: a whirlpool azure and argent], although this particular Gorges coat of arms is otherwise unknown. (During the previous century, the Gorges coat of arms had been in a state of flux, with the end result doubtless the cause of considerable dissatisfaction.) Once again, this helps date the windows: They were installed after Thomas's marriage to Elizabeth, and presumably after the birth of a male heir. Thomas was still married to his childless first wife Ann Courtenay in 1449, which pinpoints the dating of the windows to early in the decade of the 1450s.

Underneath each of the top shields are four larger coats of arms, including those of the Yeo family (argent, a chevron sable between three shovelers azure) and the Jeue/Jewe family (vert, a lion rampant ermine surmounted by a fess gules). Sometime around 1450, Philippa's daughter Ellin married William Yeo, whose mother Alice was coheiress of William Jeue, who "is mentioned as being on William Bonville 's side during the quarrels he was having with the Brook family over his estates and was witness to many of Bonville's legal transactions.[9]

Swannacott and Week St. Mary

Roger Granville in his History of the Granville Family stated "Lord [William] Bonvill died [in 1461] possessed of the manors of Week St Mary, Swannacote, and other tenements in the hundred of Stratton in Cornwall, and the whole of this property came into William de Greynvill's possession by this marriage" to Philippa Bonville. [10]
If true this would provide good evidence that Philippa was a daughter of Lord Bonville. However, a closer examination shows this statement is incorrect, and the result of some false assumptions.
  • William Bonville did not hold the manor or the advowsons in 1461 as stated. These manors were held first by the Blanchminster, then the Coleshill families and then the Arundell of Langherne family. He did die possessed of a few acres in Week St. Mary, which may have led to the confusion.
  • It obviously could not have been a maritagium if the marriage of Phillipa Bonville, and William Grenville occured c1427-1431, but William Bonville still possessed the land in 1461.
  • The Granvilles could not have obtained the land by inheritance, if the land was in the 1461 IPM as the land would have gone to the rightful heir by law, who was not Philippa.
  • There is no evidence of any kind in the form of grants, charters, feets of fines, or IPMs that William Granville, his son Thomas Granville, or his granson Thomas Granville ever possessed these lands. The fact that that these lands do not occur in the Granville IPMs is very strong evidence that these lands did not come into the Granville family with the marriage to Philippa Bonville.
  • As noted, these manors were eventually held by the Arundells of Lanherne. There was a known close association between these Arundells and the Granvilles in the early 16th century - in 1507, Katherine Granville married Sir John Arundell of Lanherne.
  • The Granvilles purchased the manors of Binamy and Stratton from the Arundells in the 16th century. Lysons states that the advowson of Week St. Mary descended with the manor of Stratton. This is almost certainly when and how Week St Mary, and Swannacote came to be possessed by the Granvilles.
  • Conclusion: There is no evidence that Week St Mary, and Swannacote came into the possession of the Granvilles with the marriage of Philippa Bonville. This evidence cannot be used to support the claim that Philippa was a daughter Lord William Bonville.


Daughter of Thomas Bonville?

Roskell's History of Parliament

"BONVILLE, Sir William II (1392-1461), of Chewton-Mendip, Som. and Shute, Devon. Family and Education: b. and bap. Shute, 12 or 31 Aug. 1392,1 s. of John Bonville (d.v.p. 1396, 1st s. of Sir William Bonville I*) by Elizabeth, da. and h. of John Fitzroger of Chewton-Mendip. m. c.1414, Margaret (d. aft. 1426), da. of Reynold, Lord Grey of Ruthin, 1s. 3da.; bef. Oct. 1430, Elizabeth (d. 24 Oct. 1471), da. of Edward Courtenay, earl of Devon, by Maud, da. of Thomas, Lord Camoys, wid. of John, Lord Harington of Aldingham in Furness and Porlock, Som. 1s. illegit. suc. gdfa. Feb. 1408; mother Apr. 1414. Kntd. c.1416; cr. Lord Bonville of Chewton 10 Mar. 1449; KG 8 Feb. 1461.2"

likewise states both that Hugh Courtenay of Haccombe was William Grenville's grandfather and that William Grenville's mother was the daughter of Hugh Courtenay, 2nd Earl of Devon. It is chronologically impossible that Hugh Courtenay of Haccombe was the grandfather of William Grenville, son of Theobald. William's elder brother John was born by 1365 (knighted by 1386), which would mean that his mother Margaret was born by 1350 at the very latest. If we imagine that Margaret wasn't the mother of John, then her son William's birth by around 1380 (adult in 1402) means that she would have been born by 1365 at the latest, and Hugh Courtenay of Haccombe was born after 1358. (NOTE: All sources state Hugh Courtenay as "Earl of Devon", not 2nd Earl.).

In a 2001 post at the soc.genealogy.medieval forum, Lois Staley questioned previous assumptions about the parentage of Philippa Bonville, advancing the possibility that Philippa was actually the daughter of John and Elizabeth Bonville's second son Thomas:

"Could Philippa's parents have been Thomas Bonville, son of John Bonville and Elizabeth fitz Roger, and his wife Leva Gorges, daughter of John Gorges?

"This Thomas Bonville died 11 Feb 1466, Leva died before 16 December 1461 when her IPM says 'Bonevile, Leva, who was the wife of Thomas, esq, daughter and heiress of John Gorge, esq Devon, Corn." 1 Edw IV (1461) Chancery: Inquisitions Post Mortem C 140/2/24. I have seen unsourced that he was married first to Joanna Poynings....

"Now, Philippa and William Grenville had three children, Thomas, Ellena (called Leva in legal documents) and Margery. Is it possible the first two were named after Philippa's parents? Thomas Grenville married Anne Courtenay and then Elizabeth Gorges which puts up a cosanganuity flag but as I don't know how Leva was related to Elizabeth, it may have been OK, or Philippa Bonville's mother may have been Joanna Poynings but she named her daughter after the woman who raised her.

"If Philippa is the daughter of Thomas Bonville (or even Sir William Bonville the original candidate) she would have been born after about 1416, whereas if she is the dauther of John Bonville she must have been born before 1396 when he died."

Philippa's son Thomas Grenville is presumed to have been born around 1430; he couldn't have been born any earlier if his mother was the daughter of William Bonville (and hence born in 1415 at the earliest). He was already married and declared his father's heir in 1449. Thomas Grenville's wife Elizabeth Gorges was descended from the junior branch of the Gorges family while Leva Gorges was descended from the senior branch seated at Tamerton Foliot. It appears that Leva Gorges' first husband John Wibbery died in 1433, indicating that she could not have been the mother of Philippa Bonville.[11]


Acknowledgments

  • This person was created on 06 August 2010 through the import of Lynch-Tree.ged.
  • This person was created on 19 October 2010 through the import of Ancestors of Lois Greene.ged.
  • WikiTree profile Bonville-39 created through the import of SRW 7th July 2011.ged on Jul 7, 2011 by Stephen Wilkinson. See the Changes page for the details of edits by Stephen and others.
  • WikiTree profile Bonville-69 created through the import of wikitree.ged on Aug 1, 2011 by Abby Brown. See the Changes page for the details of edits by Abby and others.





More Genealogy Tools



Sponsored Search




Search
Searching for someone else?
First: Last:



DNA
No known carriers of Philippa's mitochondrial DNA have taken an mtDNA test.

Have you taken a DNA test for genealogy? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.



Images: 3
Grenville pedigree, 1620 Cornwall Visitation
Grenville pedigree, 1620 Cornwall Visitation

Bonville arms
Bonville arms

Grenville/Bonville arms in Petrocstowe Church, Devon
Grenville/Bonville arms in Petrocstowe Church, Devon

Collaboration

On 16 Aug 2018 at 06:49 GMT John Atkinson wrote:

Just adding the Project as a Manager of this profile as there has been so much discussion over the years.

On 22 Jun 2018 at 18:43 GMT M (Gervais) Anonymous wrote:

There is also a Philippa Grenville listed as the daughter of Sir Thomas Grenville and Isabel Gilbert (found on The peerage, which cites L. G. Pine, The New Extinct Peerage 1884-1971: Containing Extinct, Abeyant, Dormant and Suspended Peerages With Genealogies and Arms (London, U.K.: Heraldry Today, 1972), page 9. Hereinafter cited as The New Extinct Peerage- whose co-author is Burke. The Peerage lists this Thomas Grenville as "Sir Thomas Grenville, son of Sir Thomas Grenville and Elizabeth Gorges.": http://www.thepeerage.com/p2571.htm#c25709.1

On 21 Jun 2018 at 21:39 GMT J (Schmeeckle) S wrote:

Hi Private,

You might want to read the "birth year" sub-section of the profile.

On 21 Jun 2018 at 18:26 GMT M (Gervais) Anonymous wrote:

Why did you change the birth year for Philippa (in November) from 1396 to 1415?

On 23 May 2018 at 22:55 GMT M (Gervais) Anonymous wrote:

Hmm.. Parents changed from FitzRoger-61 and Bonville-1

On 20 Mar 2018 at 19:53 GMT M (Gervais) Anonymous wrote:

Published in The History of Parliament: the House of Commons 1386-1421, ed. J.S. Roskell, L. Clark, C. Rawcliffe., 1993 [1] "Bonville’s second marriage, which took place some time between then and October 1430, required the procurement of a papal dispensation, because his new wife, Elizabeth, was already a godmother of one of his daughters. ". There is also a footnote: "CP, ii. 218-19 is incorrect in giving Bonville’s date of birth as 30 Aug. 1393 and the date of the papal dispensation for his second marriage as 9 Oct. 1427. The correct dates are to be found in C138/5/58 and Reg. Lacy (Canterbury and York Soc. lxii), 396, respectively."

It would be good to find this papal disp

On 31 Jan 2018 at 03:13 GMT J (Schmeeckle) S wrote:

I'll get to it soon.

On 31 Jan 2018 at 02:59 GMT John Atkinson wrote:

John can you please mark the section about the Yorkist connection as your theory and not something that is generally accepted by the WikiTree community. Thank you

On 12 Sep 2017 at 18:53 GMT L (Ellerton) E wrote:

On a newsgroup for medieval genealogists, Douglas Richardson recently stated, "However, given that the visitation (he’s referring to the 1620 Visitation of Cornwall-Grenville ped.) was probably recorded two centuries after the fact, it greatly minimizes its value to us. In such a case, I would look at the entire set of records and evaluate the chronology."

The primary piece of evidence that suggests that Philippa was the sister of Sir William Bonville, 1st Lord Bonville is the Grenville pedigree recorded in the 1620 Visitation of the County of Cornwall given to the heralds by Sir Bernard Grenville in the year 1620. The marriage between William Grenville and his second wife, Philippa Bonville, most likely occurred between 1428 and 1431. All we know is that William Grenville’s first wife, Thomasine Cole, was still alive and his wife on 12 May 1427. Thomasine Cole could have lived a couple years after that date until 1429/1430. Most estimates of birth for the first born son of William and Philippa are in 1430/1431 (see Weis, Frederick Lewis. The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, fifth ed. (1999): p. 30 [Line 22-11] (author states, "THOMAS GRENVILLE, ESQ., b. say 1430, d. c. 1483 …”). So, it would appear that William and Philippa most likely married during the time frame of 1428-1431. Either way, this marriage event would still have occurred roughly 200 years before the Grenville pedigree was recorded in the 1620 Visitation of Cornwall.

It should also be pointed out that the following generation in just the same visitation states, “Thos. Grenvile fil. et haeres = Elizab. Sist' to Sr Theobald de Gorges Kt.” We know this is incorrect because for Elizabeth Gorges to be a sister to Sir Theobald Gorges, K.B., she could not have been born any later than 1404 because Thomas Gorges (father of Sir Theobald Gorges, K.B.) died in 1404. If Elizabeth was Sir Theobald’s sister, then she would be some 27 years older than her first husband, Sir Thomas Grenville I, who was born c. 1430/1431. Additionally, if Elizabeth Gorges was the sister of Sir Theobald Gorges, K.B., then she would have given birth to her eldest son, Sir Thomas Grenville II, K.B., at the age of 49 given Sir Thomas Grenville II, K.B. was born c. 1453. Most estimates of birth for Sir Thomas Grenville II, K.B are in the early 1450s (see Weis, Frederick Lewis. The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, fifth ed. (1999): p. 30 [Line 22-12] (author states, "SIR THOMAS GRENVILLE, K.B., son & h. by (2), b. say 1455, d. 18 Mar. 1513/4 …”).

These extreme ages for Elizabeth Gorges to be 27 years older than her first husband, to marry her first husband at the age of 48, and to be 49 years old at the birth of her first child in circa 1453 (she would also have another child) in the mid 15th century all suggest that she was not the sister of Sir Theobald Gorges, K.B., but his daughter [see Roberts, Gary Boyd. The Royal Descent of 600 Immigrants to the American Colonies or the United States, (2008): p. 524 [Gen: 14] (author places Elizabeth Gorges as the daughter of Sir Theobald Gorges and Jane Hankford).].

The 1620 Visitation of Cornwall (Grenville ped.) has been proven to be filled with errors in multiple generations. The same error found in the “Thos. Grenvile fil. et haeres = Elizab. Sist' to Sr Theobald de Gorges Kt.” generation [see Roberts, Gary Boyd. The Royal Descent of 600 Immigrants to the American Colonies or the United States, (2008): p. 524 [Gen: 14] (author places Elizabeth Gorges as the daughter of Sir Theobald Gorges and Jane Hankford).], is the same error found in the “Willm Grenvile Brother and hey. to Sr John temp. H. IV. - Philip sist’ to the Lo. Bondvile.” generation [see Roskell, J.S. The History of Parliament: The House of Commons 1386–1421, v. 2, (1992): pp. 284–288 (biog. of Sir William Bonville II) "These ties were to be strengthened by the marriage of Bonville's son and heir, William, to Lord Harrington's only child, and of two of his daughters, Philippa and Margaret, respectively to William Grenville ... and William Courtenay ..." (author identifies Philippa Bonville, wife of William Grenville, as the daughter of William Bonville, first Lord Bonville and Margaret Grey).]. Where the visitation states that both Grenville wives were the sisters of the men mentioned, the chronology would assuredly suggest they were actually the daughters!

On 29 Aug 2017 at 19:30 GMT J (Schmeeckle) S wrote:

Lord Ellerton, if you know of anyone who has seen the original manuscript of the 1620 visitation for the Grenville family, such a person's opinion about the visitation record's references to the Bonville and Gorges connections would be of value. Even better would be a digital image of the manuscript.

EDIT: By transcription error, I refer not to the original recording of the pedigree, but the much later process of rendering the original hand-written manuscript (which might be partially illegible after all these years) into print for publication.

more comments


Philippa is 19 degrees from Claude Monet, 20 degrees from Gigi Tanksley and 15 degrees from Victoria of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.

B  >  Bonville  >  Philippa Bonville