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Margaret (Bosvile) Symmes (abt. 1440 - aft. 1492)

Margaret Symmes formerly Bosvile aka Boswell, Syms
Born about [location unknown]
Ancestors ancestors
Daughter of and [mother unknown]
Wife of — married 25 Nov 1462 [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died after after about age 52 [location unknown]
Problems/Questions Profile managers: Kerry Larson private message [send private message] and Alan Boswell private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 10 Sep 2014
This page has been accessed 1,548 times.
The Birth Date is a rough estimate. See the text for details.

Biography

Margaret is the daughter of Thomas Bosvile/Boswell of Ederthorpe and the wife of William Symmes: "Thomas Boswell of Ederthorpe died 1476, leaving two married daughters, viz: At a court of Inquistion at the manor of Woodhall in 15 Edward IV. it was found that Thomas Boswell of Ederthorpe was dead, holding lands of the manor, and that Margaret the wife of Wm. Syms, and Ellen the wife of Robt. Pilley, his daughters were of full age and his heirs."[1] Additionally, in a Trigott pedigree, it was noted that her daugher, "Joan was a daughter of William Simmes, of Barnsley, by Margaret, daughter and coheir of Thomas Bosvile, of Edderthorpe."[2][3]

She outlived William Symmes who was dead by 1483: "61. Oct. 7, 1483. Admon. of the goods of William Symmys of Bernesley granted to Margaret, his relict, and to Richard Symmys of Barnesley. (Ibid., v, 203)"[3] After William's death, she took the veil of the church on 5 Jan 1485 and did not remarry.[4][5]

Research Notes

John Ravilious, a medieval genealogist, initially though she was the daughter of Thomas Bosvile of Ardsley: "Note: she was not a coheiress; her father Thomas Bosvile was lord of Edderthorp, but was better known as Thomas Bosvile of Ardsley."[6] However, in a subsequent posting, he corrected that misunderstanding: "As given above, there is no direct evidence which states that the moiety of Edderthorpe was granted to Thomas Bosvile, son of John Bosvile of Ardsley." Further, "The problem then remains, where does Thomas Bosvile of Edderthorpe enter into the picture. We know that Thomas' daughter Margaret married William Symmes, son of Richard Symmes of Barnsley, on or about 25 November 1462 [5]. Their elder daughter Alice likely married Gerard Lacy, Esq. of Brearley Hall sometime ca. 1480, as their youngest daughter Joan was married to Robert Burton in 1484 or before [6]. Margaret Bosvile was herself likely born say 1444x1449, and aged say 13 to 18 (probably closer to the middle of this range) at the time of the marriage settlement. Based on the foregoing, one would expect that her father Thomas Bosvile was probably born within a comparatively wide range of say 1420 to 1430."[7]

Sources

  1. Boswell, J. J. History and Genealogical Tables of the Boswells: Their Ancient Alliances and Connections from the Founder of the Name in the Year 1066 to This Date 1906. Salt Lake City, Utah: Filmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah, 1959. p. 161
  2. Hunter, Joseph. South Yorkshire: The History and Topography of the Deanery of Doncaster, in the Dioceseand County of York. Vol. 2 of 2. (London: Printed for the author, by J.B. Nichols and Son, 1831). p. 447
  3. 3.0 3.1 Brown, William. Yorkshire Deeds. Volume 2. 1914. p. 20 and 22
  4. York, Eng, James Raine, John William Clay, and James Raine. Testamenta Eboracensia; Or, Wills Registered at York, Illustrative of the History, Manners, Language, Statistics, &C., of the Province of York, from the Year 1300 Downwards. Durham: Andrews & Co., 1865. p. 349
  5. A. E. Stamp, E. Salisbury, E. G. Atkinson and J. J. O'Reilly. "Inquisitions Post Mortem, Edward III, File 131," in Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem: Volume 10, Edward III, (London: His Majesty's Stationery Office, 1921), #252. British History Online, accessed July 8, 2021, http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol10/pp209-228.
  6. John Ravilious, "A New Plantagenet Descent, Via Lacy of Brearley", posted to Genelogy.com on 26 Dec 2004, https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/farrar/1892/
  7. John P. Ravilious, "Correction to 'Plantagenet Descent: Edward I to Symmes of Barnsley'", posted to list.rootsweb.com on 12/5/2007, 1:20:37 AM. https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/gen-medieval@rootsweb.com/thread/4749156/
  • Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families. 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City, Utah: Douglas Richardson, 2013. Vol. IV. p. 342, under 19. GERALD LACY




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Comments: 7

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I tried mapping out the profiles in this space (having read through the information here, in Glover's Visitation of Yorkshire and elsewhere) as they're still rather confusing. Unfortunately this system removes formatting, so a tree approach isn't possible, but here's an attempt long-hand:

Margaret Bosville (-10)

  • Sister of Helen Bosville (-662), who married Robert Pilley (-50)
  • Daughter of Thomas Bosville of Ederthorpe (-630) (#4 son, d.1474/5) and (Unknown)
  • Granddaughter of Thomas Bosville of Ardsley, Newhall and Gunthwaite (-630) (d.1490) and Isabel Hastings (-380)
  • Great-granddaughter of William Boswell (-626) and Maud Fitzwilliam (-291)
  • etc.


Married:

William Symmes (-148)

  • Son of William Symmes (No profile) and (Unknown)
  • Heir to his uncle Richard Symmes / Symson (Symson-17), (Catholic Priest (Vicar of Halifax))
  • Grandson of Richard Symmes (No profile) and (Unknown)


They begat:

  • William Symmes (-146) (No issue)
  • Isabel Symmes (-150) (Joint heiress) who married John Sayntpaule (St_Paul-5) and begat William St Paul (St_Paul_6)
  • Alice Symmes (-97) (Joint heiress) who married Gerard Lacy (-343) and begat:
    • Hugh (John) Lacy (Lacy-730) who married Agnes Savile of Newhall (Savile-21) and begat:
      • John Lacy (No profile) who married Anne Woodruffe of Woolley (No profile) (Additional generations in Glover's visitation of Yorkshire *, see also, 'The coats of arms of the nobility and gentry of Yorkshire' (J Horsfall Turner), which references their impaled arms ***)
      • Thomas Lacy (de_Lacy-123) (No issue)
      • Gerard Lacy (No profile) (Died young)
      • Gilbert (Lacy-1506) who married Maria Murgatroyd (daughter of John Murgatroyd (No profiles) and had eight children (see Glover's Visitation of Yorkshire)*
      • Margaret (Lacy-345) who married William Farrer of Ewood (Ferror-2), some of whose descendants went to the US
      • Alice (Lacy-1355) who married John Haldworth of Asden (Holdesworth-4) and had issue
      • Agnes (de_Lacy-118) who married Christopher Dighton of Winsby, Lincolnshire (Dighton-28), some of whose descendants emigrated to the US
      • Isabel (Lacy-1412) who married Jasper Blythman of Burton Abbey (Blythman-52) and had issue
      • Ellena (de_Lacy-121) who married John Deine of Deyne House (No profile)
    • Dunstan and Edward (Priests)
    • William (No profile)** who married (Unknown) and begat:
      • Agnes (who married a Richard Hills of London (no profile))
      • Margaret (Lacy-2153), who married Simon Fyfield Lowe (Lowe-9662) and begat:
        • Timothy (Lowe-12103)
        • Thomas (Lowe-9658 (Mayor of London in 1604))
        • John Lowe (Lacy-2154 (executed in 1586 and beatified in 1987))
    • Richard (No profile) who married a Greene (No profile)


Notes:

* https://archive.org/details/McGillLibrary-hssl_visitation-yorkshire_CS437Y4A2-19990/page/n353/mode/2up?q=brearley (see pp.330-1)

** William Lacy appears in the Visitation as the father of Margaret (p.331), but is referred to as Christopher Lacy (Lacy-2762) in other sources, which suggests that (Gilbert) Lacy-2763 is a 'duplicate' of Gerard Lacy (-343)

*** https://archive.org/details/coatsofarmsofnob00turnrich/page/216/mode/2up?q=woolley

posted by R Barker
edited by R Barker
I would say that Margaret's birth date is an estimate based on her marriage date, but she could easily have been married much younger than has been assumed.
posted by Alan Boswell
Can I ask why Margaret Bosvile had almost only ten years of differences between her and her grand mother, Isabelle Hastings ? I try to figure out but all the dates are so wrong...
I have proposed a merge of this profile with Bosvile-10. One could discuss at length what should be the LNAB, as the name was in transition from Bosvile to Boswell at this time, and different branches of the same family used different spellings. Whichever is chosen, the other should be cited as an other last name.
posted on Boswell-661 (merged) by Alan Boswell
Boswell-661 and Bosvile-10 appear to represent the same person because: Clear duplicate
posted by Alan Boswell
Unfortunately Ravilious is incorrect in asserting that Thomas Boswell of Ederthorpe is better known as Thomas Boswell of Ardsley. In fact, he was his son. See the sources quoted in their profiles.
posted by Alan Boswell
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/gen-medieval/2004-12/1102625497

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2005-08/1124200980

(Those links are now broken but the threads are still out there)


Mention here

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/VOKRv1Ary1w

(but the parents are wrong)


Test. Ebor. 3, ed. Raine, Surtees Soc. 45 (1864), p. 349 (1484/5 Jan 5).

posted by [Living Horace]

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Categories: Estimated Birth Date