William (Braose) de Braose
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William (Braose) de Braose (abt. 1224 - 1291)

Sir William "1st Lord Brewes" de Braose formerly Braose aka de Brewes
Born about in Englandmap [uncertain]
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married 1245 in Gower, Walesmap
Husband of — married 1268 in Cadbury, Somersetshire, Englandmap
Husband of — married before 1271 in Englandmap
Descendants descendants
Died in Findon, Sussex, Englandmap
Profile last modified | Created 23 Sep 2015 | Last significant change: 24 Mar 2021
14:36: Carol (O'Brien) McDonald posted a comment on the page for William (Braose) de Braose (abt.1224-1291) [Thank Carol for this]
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William de Brewes is in a trail badged by the Magna Carta Project to surety baron Richard de Clare (see text below).

Contents

Biography

William de Brewes, Knt., of Bramber, Sussex, England[1][2]

Son and heir of John de Brewes, Knt., William was of full age 15 July 1245 (so born about 1224). His mother was Margaret of Wales, daughter of Llywelyn, Prince of North Wales.[3]
William's first wife was Aline, daughter of Thomas de Multon and Maud de Vaux. They had a son:[1]
Aline died before 1267/8.[1]
William married second Agnes de Moels, daughter of Nicholas de Moels and Hawise de Newmarch. They had one son: [1]
In or before 1271, William married third Mary de Roos, daughter of Robert de Roos, Knt., and Isabel d'Aubeney.[1] Their children:
"Sir William de Brewes, 1st Lord Brewes, died at Findon, Sussex 6 Jan. 1290/1, and was buried at Sell, Sussex 15 January following."[1] (Findon is about 5 miles west of Bramber.[7])

Research Notes

Name

There are a variety of spellings of William's last name, and no single one is "right".
  • Richardson standardized to Brewes,[3] which is also the main heading in Cokayne's Complete Peerage, although the text for William spells it Breuse, noting that he was summoned "by writs directed Willelmo de Breuse, Brehuse, or Brewes. He is recorded to have sat in Parl. of Apr.-May 1290,... whereby he may be held to have been Lord Brewose."[8] Cawley uses Briose for the father and Breuse for William.[9]
  • Other sources prefer Braose, for instance:
    • The Calendars of the Close Rolls for the reign of Henry III[10]
    • Keats-Rohan's Domesday Descendants, referring to other members of the family[11]
    • The Victoria County Histories[12]
    • I J Sanders in his English Baronies[13]
  • Entries for the family in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography mainly use "Briouze [Braose]".[14]
  • Some sources are inconsistent, but mostly use the Braose form - for instance:
    • Farrer's Honors and Knights' Fees, which gives several spellings but mostly uses Braose, including for the William of this profile[15]
    • Frederick Lewis Weis's Magna Carta Sureties, which also uses more than one spelling but generally uses Braose for the family[16]

Marriages

Richardson does not give locations of William's three marriages, which the datafields show as Gower, Wales (for Aline, in 1245); Cadbury, Somersetshire, England (for Agnes, in 1268); and England (for Mary). Richardson gives a date only for William's third marriage: "in or before 1271". The date for his second marriage shown in the datafields (1268) is based on his first wife's death, which Richardson has as "before 1267/8". The date for his first marriage is based on William "being of full age" in 1245.[3]

Unsourced Child

Richardson does not list a daughter Eleanor, but does say that William and Mary had "two or more daughters", naming only Margaret.[3] Perhaps Eleanor was one of those other daughters.

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 Douglas Richardson. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City: the author, 2013), volume I, pages 532-4 BREWES 8.
  2. Richardson's entry for William in Royal Ancestry (I:532-4 BREWES 8) gives his name as "William de Brewes" with alternative spellings of Breuse, Brehuse, Breouse. Alternative spellings for his father's entry (I:530-2 BREWES 7) are "Breuse, Brause, etc."
  3. 3.00 3.01 3.02 3.03 3.04 3.05 3.06 3.07 3.08 3.09 3.10 Douglas Richardson. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham, 2nd edition (Salt Lake City: the author, 2011), volume I, pages 313-325 BREWES.
  4. Giles' first wife, Beatrice, was born c1272 and died 1 June 1298. Giles's second wife, Maud, survived him - he died "shortly before 7 Jan. 1305", Maud remarried "before 8 March 1321". ~ Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry (2013), III:43 FROME 9.
  5. Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry (2013), I:142-143 TETBURY 9.
  6. Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry (2013), II:67-68 CAMOYS 6.
  7. 4.7 miles/7.6 kms, according to Google Maps, accessed 22 March 2020.
  8. G. E. Cokayne, ed. V. Gibbs. The Complete Peerage, volume 2 (1912), pages 302-4; online at FamilySearch (sign-in required; accessed 23 March 2020).
  9. Charles Cawley, MedLands entry for John Briouse (accessed 23 March 2020).
  10. 'Index: B', in Calendar of Close Rolls, Henry III, Volume 11, 1259-1261, ed. A E Stamp (London, 1934), pp. 510-518, British History Online, accessed 23 March 2020: subscription required for full access; index freely viewable
  11. K S B Keats-Rohan. "Domesday descendants", Boydell Press, 2002, pp. 346-7
  12. The Victoria County Histories are available on British History Online
  13. I J Sanders. English Baronies, a Study of their Origin and Descent 1086-1317, Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1960 - numerous references to the Braose family, including the William of this profile (eg p. 108)
  14. See for instance Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, entry for 'Briouze [Braose], William de (d. 1211), print and online 2004, available online via some libraries
  15. For the William of this profile, see William Farrer, Honors and Knights' Fees, Vol. III, Manchester University Press, 1925, pp. 72 and 340
  16. Frederick Lewis Weis. The Magna Carta Sureties 1215, 5th edition, Genealogical Publishing Company, 1999
  • Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City: the author, 2013. See also WikiTree's source page for Royal Ancestry.
  • Richardson, Douglas. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. Salt Lake City: the author, 2011. See also WikiTree's source page for Magna Carta Ancestry.
  • Cokayne, G.E., Gibbs, V., ed. The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom (The St. Catherine Press, London, 1910-). See also WikiTree's source page for Complete Peerage.
  • Cawley, Charles. Entry for John Briouse, "Medieval Lands": A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families © by Charles Cawley, hosted by Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG). See also WikiTree's source page for MedLands.
See also:

Acknowledgements

Click the Changes tab to see edits to this profile. Thank you to everyone who contributed to this profile.

Magna Carta Project

This profile was reviewed and approved for the Project 22 March 2020 by ~ Noland-165 06:19, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
William de Brewes is a descendant of Magna Carta Surety Baron Richard de Clare in trails badged by the Magna Carta Project to the following Gateway Ancestors:
See Base Camp for more information about Magna Carta Project trails. See the project's glossary for project-specific terms, such as a "badged trail".




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With reference to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography – Briouze [Braose], William III [d. 1211] by Ralph V. Turner. “William IV, their eldest son, died in 1210 imprisoned with his mother. He married Matilda, daughter of Richard de Clare, earl of Hertford and they had four sons, who remained imprisoned in Corfu Castle until 1218. In 1219 Reginald was sued by the widow of William IV de Briouze and her eldest son John, recently freed from prison. John had gained possession of Bramber and some minor Briouse holdings, and he was seeking the family’s possessions on the Welsh marches, but Reginald held on to all of them except for Gower. Shortly after her release, Matilda de Clare was to marry Rhys Gryg a son of Lord Rhys of Deheubarth. John de Braose was accidently killed in 1232 and his widow, Margaret, the daughter of Llewelyn Fawr and Joan, the daughter of king John, married Walter Clifford. John de Braose and Margaret, were to have two sons, William I de Braose of Gower, whose male line became extinct with the death of his great grandson William IV de Braose. "

To add insult to injury William I de Braose, the elder of the two sons, and heir of John de Braose was held accountable for the debts of Reginald de Braose even having his cattle confiscated on account of those debts. Whilst he was refuting that he was the heir, he was still being held accountable by the exchequer two years later. Richard de Braose, William's younger brother married Alice le Rus, the heir of both parents and widow of Stephen de Longespee.

With reference to “The Fine Rolls Project of HIII”. ©2009 The National Archives and King's College London.

BRAOSE WILLIAM I Eldest son of John de Braose and Margaret of Gwynedd [CFR HIII] 14 May 1248. Woodstock. William de Breus’ gives the king 20 m. for having the record of a plea which is before the itinerant justices at Gloucester between Gladys de Mortimer, claimant, and the same William, deforciant, concerning Gladys’s dower that falls to her from the free tenement formerly of Reginald de Braose, sometime her husband, before the king (coram rege) at Trinity in three weeks, namely 10 m. at Michaelmas in the thirty-second year and at Easter next [CFR HIII] 23 January 1250 Bisham. Order to the barons of the Exchequer to place in respite the demand they make from William de Braose for the £52 which Reginald de Braose owed in the Jewry, as is said, until Easter next to come. [CFR HIII] 1 July 1250 Marlborough. Order to the barons of the Exchequer to place in respite, until the quindene of Michaelmas in the thirty-fourth year, the demand for £52 that they make by summons of the Exchequer from William de Braose for the debts which William, son of Reginald de Braose, whose heir he is not, as is said, owed the king, so that it may be discussed then by consideration of the Exchequer whether he ought to satisfy the king for that debt or not. They are to cause his livestock taken for this reason to be delivered to him in the meantime. [CFR HIII] 13 May 1251. Westminster. Order to the barons of the Exchequer to place in respite the demand for £52 which they make by summons of the Exchequer from William de Braose for the debts of Reginald de Braose until one month from Michaelmas in the thirty-fifth year. Because William says that he is not the heir of the same Reginald or has anything of his inheritance by which he ought to answer for the debts of the same, they are to cause Reginald’s heirs to come before them on a certain day, setting the same day for the above said William to discuss before them whether it is he or others who ought to answer the king for the aforesaid money. [CFR HIII] 9 June 1251. Clarendon. Order to the barons of the Exchequer to place in respite the demand for £52 which they make by summons of the Exchequer from William de Braose for the debts of Reginald de Braose until one month after Michaelmas. [CFR HIII] 20 August 1252 Woodstock. Order to the barons of the Exchequer to place in respite the demand that they make by summons of the Exchequer from William de Braose for £50 of the debts of Reginald de Braose, until the quindene of Michaelmas. [CFR HIII] 25 August 1253 Keniton’. The king has given respite to William de Breuse until the close of Easter next about-to-be from £52 which the king exacts from him of the debts of the king’s Jews and of 50 m. which he owes the king for a trespass of game and which are exacted from him by summons of the Exchequer. Order to the sheriff of Sussex to permit to cause them to have that respite.

This profile was reviewed and approved by Liz Shifflett on 22 Mar 2020.
posted by Traci Thiessen
edited by Traci Thiessen
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posted by Traci Thiessen
I recommend that the LNAB spelling be changed to Brewes (see #Research Notes). The only "Braose" that I could find was WikiTree & Wikipedia. The Wikipedia use appeared to be supported by Cokayne, but it's not. I thought perhaps Breuse would be a better choice, but the corrections page for Cokayne dissuaded me, since Brewes is listed there, but not Breuse - see http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/

Did I miss an authoritative source for "Braose"? If so, let me know. If not, I'll make the change for this profile & post to G2G about profiles for his family members.

Thanks! Liz

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Facts trump intuition. My intuition is that this was a Norman-French family and Braose sounds more French than Brewes. My gut feeling is that Richardson has a tendency to use English equivalent names for other families that I think would have used French names in practice. I like the sound of Braose and don't like the sound of Brewes, so I will be sad when Braose goes away.

All of this feeling stuff is irrelevent here! If the facts are that the family didn't use Braose, and that their name is best standardized to Brewes, then the LNAB should be Brewes! Go for it.

posted by Jack Day
edited by Jack Day
Looking through my personal database, I have this information quoted from the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography for William de Braose who is https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Braose-170 on Wikitree.

"Briouze [Braose], William (III) de (d. 1211), magnate, was a landholder of the Welsh and Irish marches, whose friendship with King John won him rich rewards, but whose dramatic fall from favour and relentless pursuit by John contributed to baronial distrust and fear of the king.

Norman origins The name derives from Briouze-St Gervais, near Argentin, where William held his ancestors' three fees until the loss of Normandy in 1203-4.

The article continues, but this is the pertinent information regarding the name. The sources for the article are: Chancery records · Pipe rolls · Chronica magistri Rogeri de Hovedene, ed. W. Stubbs, 4 vols., Rolls Series, 51 (1868–71) · Ann. mon., vol. 1 · Rogeri de Wendover liber qui dicitur flores historiarum, ed. H. G. Hewlett, 3 vols., Rolls Series, [84] (1886–9) · H. S. Sweetman and G. F. Handcock, eds., Calendar of documents relating to Ireland, 5 vols., PRO (1875–86), vol. 1 · D. Walker, Medieval Wales (1990) · GEC, Peerage · I. J. Sanders, English baronies: a study of their origin and descent, 1086–1327 (1960) · I. W. Rowlands, ‘William de Braose and the lordship of Brecon’, BBCS, 30 (1982-3), 122–33 · P. Meyer, ed., L'histoire de Guillaume le Maréchal, 3 vols. (Paris, 1891-1901) · Rymer, Foedera · T. D. Hardy, ed., Rotuli de oblatis et finibus, RC (1835) · F. M. Powicke, ‘Loretta, countess of Leicester’, Historical essays in honour of James Tait, ed. J. G. Edwards, V. H. Galbraith, and E. F. Jacob (1933), 247-72

Briouze is a commune in the Orne department of Normandy in northwestern France. With that in mind, the earlier generations, at the very least, should be spelled that way. Have any extant records been searched? I agree with Jack re: Richardson...

Maurice Boddy uses Briouze on his website: http://mauriceboddy.org.uk/Abergavenny.htm as does Project Medlands: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3.htm

This discussion should be held on G2G with hopes that Andrew, Joe, RJ, et al. might get involved...

posted by Darlene (Athey) Athey-Hill
edited by Darlene (Athey) Athey-Hill
Thanks everyone. Seems I missed a LOT of good sources - ODNB being just one. Braose it stays.

Cheers, Liz

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
I have expanded the research note on the name. Hope this is helpful.
posted by Michael Cayley
K S B Keats-Rohan, "Domesday descendants", Boydell Press, 2002, pp. 346-7, uses the Braose form for the family.

I J Sanders ("English Baronies, a Study of their Origin and Descent 1086-1317", Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1960) uses the Braose form in numerous references to members of the family, including some to William himself (eg p. 7, but there are a number of others).

Frederick Lewis Weis in "The Magna Carta Sureties" generally uses Braose for the family, but is not consistent.

The Victoria County Histories consistently use Braose.

The Calendars of the Close Rolls of the reign of Henry III index him under Braose.

William Farrer in his "Honors and Knights' Fees" is inconsistent for the family, but uses Braose more than other forms, including for the William of this profile - Vol. III (Manchester University Press, 1925), pp. 72 and 340.

We have the ODNB also using Braose as one of the main spellings.

As is frequently the case, there is no single standard form for the name, and no absolutely right answer. All one can do is give one form as LNAB, one as current last name, and any other commonly found variants as other names. It is important to make sure we keep de Braose as one form of the name. I do not regard Richardson as definitive on these occasions. The preponderance of good sources go for Braose. Whatever we do on the LNAB, I believe we need to keep de Braose as the current last name.

posted by Michael Cayley
edited by Michael Cayley
Is it our responsibility to edit wikidata? On another profile this morning where wikidata had wrong birth and death dates, and I had documentation from both Richardson and Cokayne, I simply marked it as a false suggestion and and said wikidata was wrong!
posted by Jack Day
That is the right way to proceed, Jack. We have absolutely no responsibility for wikidata. As Liz has said, there has been a huge import into wikidata of info from the peerage.com, much of which is wrong, dubious or unsourced. We have been told we can ignore the resulting wikidata suggestions while the Team work out a way of trying to screen them out. If I do anything on them, I have no hesitation in marking them false so they don't reappear.
posted by Michael Cayley
I've added a comment to the suggestion. The suggestion is "544 WikiData - Possible Mother on WikiData Help" - from what I understand about these types of suggestions, resolution requires someone to edit wikidata to include links to the WikiTree profiles mentioned. Wikidata recently imported database information from thepeerage.com, which generated a lot of these types of suggestions but they generally offer nothing of use (as in this case).
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
It is not our job as members of WikiTree to amend or correct Wikidata. Many members frequently ignore Wikidata suggestions - even more so following the recent import into Wikidata of things from The Peerage.com, which the team have said explicitly can be ignored. But if we want, when they come up as WT database suggestions we can mark them as false if they are wrong or unsourced etc etc.
posted by Michael Cayley
A suggestion needs resolution
posted by Jack Day
Hi! This profile in on a 'trail' from Gateway Ancestor Elizabeth Covert to Surety Baron Richard de Clare. The Magna Carta project will be updating this profile in line with project guidelines. See See Base Camp, contact person Anderson-35092
posted by Robin Anderson
555 Wikidata - Different birth date
The dates on this profile show he has been conflated with William Braose-151, son of John Braose and Margaret of Wales.

Eve Marshal and William Braose (the one who was hung by Prince Llewelyn) had only four daughters, which is why Eva managed her estates herself after her husband's death: there were no male heirs!

Please add a source (not a tree) to show William Braose as the son the of Eva Marshal, or enter into collaboration on removing this connection from her profile. Suggest adding him to John Braose as son and merging him into the son already there, Braose-151.

Discovered a third profile for William de Brewes:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Brewes-1

Merging this profile into the Braose-151 will add William's 2nd wife to his other two wives, and she will is already connected to her ancestors and descendants.

We can choose between Braose-151 or Brewes-1 or create a different spelling of the surname BUT could we please decide and merge these three?

thanks, April Dauenhauer

PS my vote is for Brewes-1 because Brewes is the preferred spelling in Magna Carta Ancestry by Douglas Richardson (with Breuse and Brause as alternates). It's his documentation that convinces me. Suggest other popular spellings be included in text of bio.

Other issues in merging:

the death date is 6 Jan 1290/1 and it needs to be written out that way in the bio - I'm not sure if it matter whether 1290 or 1291 is the choice for the vitals section, just need all to please speak up with their preference.
Discovered a third profile for William de Brewes:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Brewes-1

Merging this profile into the Braose-151 will add William's 2nd wife to his other two wives, and she will is already connected to her ancestors and descendants.

We can choose between Braose-151 or Brewes-1 or create a different spelling of the surname BUT could we please decide and merge these three?

thanks, April Dauenhauer

PS my vote is for Brewes-1 because Brewes is the preferred spelling in Magna Carta Ancestry by Douglas Richardson (with Breuse and Brause as alternates). It's his documentation that convinces me. Suggest other popular spellings be included in text of bio.

Why is Braose-158 and Barose-151 set as an unmerged match?

Does the biography and sources added today help resolve any issues so they can merged?

Why is Braose-158 and Braose-151 set as an unmerged match?

Does the biography and sources added today help resolve any issues so they can merged?

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