John Brown

John Percival Brown (1895 - 1990)

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John Percival Brown
Born in Plumstead London Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married in Woolwich Londonmap
Descendants descendants
Father of , , , [private daughter (1920s - unknown)] and
Died in Darlington, Durham, Englandmap
Profile last modified | Created 28 May 2012
This page has been accessed 1,476 times.

Categories: Plumstead, Kent | British Army in World War I.

Biography

England flag
John Brown was born in England.
John Brown served in the British Army in World War I
Service started:
Unit(s): 6th Battalion of the Border Regiment
Service ended:
1901 living at 17 Station Road Plumstead
Registration district: Woolwich Sub-registration district: Plumstead East ED, institution, or vessel: 08 Piece: 573 Folio: 41 Page Number: 8 Household schedule number: 57
Household Members:
Name Age
John Henry Brown 39 Examiner of shot and shell born Plumstead Kent
Eliza A Brown 42 born Plumstead Kent
Henry G Brown 19 Machinist fuse worker born Plumstead Kent
Chas F Brown 19 Machinist bullet worker born Plumstead Kent
Sidney C Brown 12 born Plumstead Kent
Ethel M Brown 10 born Plumstead Kent
Agnes H Brown 8 born Plumstead Kent
John P Brown 6 born Plumstead Kent
Albert L Brown 4 born Plumstead Kent
Archibald Hampton 24 boarder, bricklayer born Essex East Grinstead
1911 Street address: 112A Chesnut Road, Plumstead S E
Registration district: Woolwich Registration District Number: 30 Sub-registration district: Plumstead East ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Piece: 2906
Household Members:
Name Age
Eliza Ann Brown 52 Dressmaker born Plumstead Kent (married 30 years, 8 children born, 7 living)
Henry George Thomas Brown 29 Gardener born Plumstead
Ethel Maud Brown 20 Dressmaker born Plumstead Kent
Agnes Honor Brown 18 Dressmaker born Plumstead Kent
John Percival Brown 16 School born Plumstead Kent
Albert Leslie Brown 14 School born Plumstead Kent
Florence Clara Laidlaw 20 Boarder born Plumstead Ken
1939 Brown Household (7 People) 15 Sandhurst Road , Bexley M.B., Kent, England
Donald J Brown 13 Sep 1924 Male None Yet Single 157 5
John P Brown 14 Jan 1895 Male Manager Tobacco Warehouse Co-Op S Married 157 1
Lily E Brown 24 Jun 1896 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 157 2
Joyce I McIlroy (Brown) 18 Nov 1916 Male Clerk Grocery Warehouse Office Co - Op Single 157 3
Plus three closed records
1933-c1962 15 Sandhurst Road Bexley Kent
1964 - 1985 Hastings Sussex
1985 - 1990 Darlington Co. Durham

He won a scholarship to Haberdashers Askes School in Hatcham, Lewisham. He fought in the 1st World War, and was gassed with various gasses, including mustard gas, but survived.

Probate - John Percival Brown of Raydaleside Stanhope Road South Darlington died 20th April 1990 24th August not exceeding £115000 probate Llandaff 9080702538H

Memories of John's life based on a recording he made in 1985

(Some of this account is in the first person, some is as summarised by another.)

John Percival Brown 1895-1990

This account is largely based on a recording John made in Darlington in 1985

John was born on 14 January 1895 at 17 Station Road, Plumstead, which was then in Kent. One of his earliest memories was being called in from playing in the street to say goodbye to his eldest sister Lilian who died on 31 March 1900, one day after her 14th birthday. He says the cause was rheumatic fever

Other early memories include seeing Queen Victoria inspecting the troops at Woolwich Barracks and also the troops wearing funeral badges on the day of her death in 1901. He went to Conway Road infants’ school in Plumstead and remembers being taught plain knitting and hemming, although not much good at either. In 1906 he sat the London County Council junior scholarship and was successful. This meant that he went to the Haberdasher’s Aske’s School, Hatcham SE 14, in September that year. This is the Pepys Road site in part of London now more commonly called New Cross Gate.

In 1911 John passed the London University Matriculation examination which allowed him to continue at the school for a further two years. But in November 1912 the American company H J Heinz approached the school and he went for an interview with them for the post of industrial chemist. He was at that point studying for an intermediate science degree but accepted the post. This meant working in Brayards Road, Peckham, at a site which previously belonged to a company called Batty & Co. This was apparently Heinz’s first site in the UK which opened in 1905. The work John was given to do was not very challenging. He was testing the acidity of vinegars and measuring the capacity of various containers. As this was not what he really wanted he was transferred to the head office, which was in Farringdon Road, in central London. He worked there for 18 months (1914?) and then decided to find a position nearer home. At this point he would have been living at 112 Chestnut Road, Plumstead (now Chestnut Rise). John worked in the shop clerical department of the Western Electric Company in North Woolwich until March 1915 when he decided to enlist in the army pay corps. He was transferred to Fulwood barracks near Preston.

While still at school, John had started courting Lily Ethel Henwood who was a member of the Sunday school at the Woolwich Baptist Tabernacle. There were no doubt other social activities, and in December 1914 they got engaged. They got married on 7 August 1915. A few months later, Lily joined John in Fulwood and she found employment at the army pay office. She became pregnant in February 1916 and his first child, Joyce, was born on 28 November in Preston. But just before Joyce’s birth, instructions were issued by the War Office that the pay corps should be transferred to infantry battalions. John was required to go even though he wore spectacles. But the warrant officer in charge managed to delay his transfer to Freeze Heath, in Shropshire, until after Joyce’s birth.

At this time, Lily, Joyce and John were living in 3 Fenton Road, Fulwood, a small red brick terraced house in a cul-de-sac.

As well as infantry training – marching, assault course and bayonet fighting – John was also engaged in a stretcher bearer’s course. Owing to heavy losses in France, John was sent there in March 1917 and joined the 6th battalion of the Border Regiment. After a toughening up at the Bull Ring in Etaples, he arrived at the battalion HQ. A position as medical orderly came up and he applied. He had to organise sick parades and dole out prescriptions made by Dr McDermot.

After several periods in the front line trenches, his company was stationed in dugouts on the Ypres canal. In July during the middle of the afternoon a shell landed in the dugout and the wounded were brought to the dressing station. While dressing one man, John inhaled some mustard gas with which the shells had been filled. He was violently sick and had pains in his eyes. He was evacuated to hospital in Boulogne and spent two weeks there. A big attack was being prepared at Passchendaele, in Belgium, they decided to clear the hospital and he was moved to Brighton. The treatment meant he was unable to use his eyes for a couple of weeks, but he eventually recovered his sight although his breathing was bad.

John was transferred to a large house in East Grinstead where he had a pleasant time. Then he was transferred to a convalescent depot at Heaton Park, Manchester. He was still being treated and had very light duties for several months.

Then John was transferred to Carlisle Castle which was the HQ of the Border Regiment. After some weeks he was moved again to the Reserve Battalion at Crosby, near Liverpool. The war on the French front was going very badly and the Germans made a heavy attack in spring 1918. John was shipped out again to join the 11th Battalion of the Border Regiment in France. On 8 August 1918 his battalion was rushed down from Amiens to the front as part of a flying column. They pressed on and the Germans were in retreat. They followed them at a safe distance and John says he never fired a shot in anger. John’s position in the early days of November 1918 was quite near Mons where the first big battle of the war took place in 1914. He was there to hear the mayor of the town announce that the armistice had been signed.

John’s battalion pressed on gradually towards Germany and crossed the Rhine in Cologne. From there he was sent to Bonn, and then to a bathing establishment like Baden Baden. After spending a pleasant few weeks there, orders came through that John and another colleague who came from the pay corps be returned to Wimereux near Boulogne to help with demobilisation. He objected on the grounds that he thought he would be retained in the army for a long time. But after a few weeks he was moved back to Crystal Palace (before it burnt down in 1936). He was however told by his Sergeant Major that anyone who had a job to go to could be demobilised at once. He took advantage of this, but was not sure he had a job to go to. When he went to Western Electric he was told he had left without permission and they were under no obligation to take him back.

On demobilisation troops were given a small sum of money and, if they needed it, a suit. As John did not need one, he was given 30 shillings (£1.50) in lieu. He went to the Woolwich employment exchange. While waiting to register, he heard that the Woolwich Arsenal Cooperative Society was recruiting for people to help with its annual stock-take in the summer of 1919. He went down and was taken onto the temporary staff for some time, and then in February 1920 he was taken onto the permanent staff.

In September 1920 there was a vacancy for a clerk in charge of the office in the grocery warehouse. He applied and was successful in obtaining it on the salary of £5 per week. He was living with his wife and baby in Chestnut Road, Plumstead. But in April 1920 he was successful in renting a five-roomed house, at the cost of 11 shillings (55p) a week. This was fortunate as Lily was expecting a second baby who was born on 2 May: Roy. Four years later Lily had another boy, Donald, on 14 September 1924. Donald contacted pneumonia when he was about four years old. That year we bought a house on the Bostall estate which was owned by the Royal Arsenal Coop Society. The house we bought on Howarth Road, Abbey Wood, for £300 with a fifty five year lease.

The family lived in Howarth Road until 1927, when they had another daughter, Audrey, born on 20 November 1927. They moved to another house in Vaughan Road, Welling, bought for £550. This was more difficult for John to get to work, until he bought his first car in 1929 which was a 1923 12-horsepower Citroen. After a year he exchanged it for a Morris Oxford, which had more room for the family. However in 1930 he had to give up motoring due to financial circumstances.

Their fifth child, Geoffrey, was born on the 26 December 1930. In 1931 there was a reorganisation in the Royal Arsenal Cooperative Association (RACS) and the tobacco department was separated off. John was placed in charge, at a salary of £8 per week. During this year Roy got his scholarship to Dartford Grammar School. He did well there and in 1937 he entered the Erith Library Service.

In 1938 Britain was having trouble with Hitler, and war was declared in September 1939 when Hitler invaded Poland. In the years of the war both Joyce and Roy got married. Joyce’s son Stuart was born in 1943 and Elizabeth, Roy and May’s first daughter, in 1944. The war years were difficult for business, and after the Dunkirk withdrawal the Local Defence Volunteers was set up. I joined, but when it became the Home Guard, with a military connection, I withdrew and took up a voluntary driver position for an ambulance. In the year before the war, Audrey passed her examination to go to Dartford Girls School, but when the war started John withdrew her from there and sent her to the Bexleyheath Technical School which was nearer home. Audrey always regretted the consequences when it came to furthering her career as a nurse.

John Brown’s life story recording peters out at this point but he does answer some questions put to him by Simon Siddle, the son of Audrey’s next door neighbours in Darlington. Simon was interested in John’s experience of the war, and he found that John was far from a traditional hero. In fact he was a pacifist.

The interview ran as follows:

Would you have joined up if you had known what was going to happen?
“No”.
What is your opinion of conscientious objectors?
“After the end of the First World War, I was absolutely anti-militaristic. I believed in the League of Nations which was then formed to police the world. Consequently my eldest son was denied military toys and when, as a member of the OTC at his school he was to be instructed in bayonet fighting, he resigned. He was eventually called up in 1941 and he objected. He was tried and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment, of which he served three months.”
What is your opinion of junior officers?
“Mixed.”
And senior officers?
“Unmentionable.”
And the military strategists, like field marshals and generals?
“The earlier ones treated the infantry as cannon fodder.”
Did you experience gas?
“Yes.”
And what did you think of it?
“Terrible.”
And barbed wire?
“No.”
What about family feelings?
“As a young man with one child I was very anxious to get back as soon as possible and get the war finished as soon as possible.”
And religious feelings?
“Neutral. Both sides believed God was on their side.”
Did you have contact with a Padre and if so what did you think of it?
“I had no personal contact, but many of them did a very good job.”
Were you aware of any underage conscripts?
“No.”
Can you recall your feelings when actually going into action?
“Just hope.”
Were you wounded or shell shocked at all?
“No.”
Did you experience others who were shell shocked?
“No.”
What weapons were you issued with? :

“I had two periods on the western front. On the first one I was a medical orderly, that in charge of the doctor’s shop and issued out the medicines asprescribed by the MO. On account of this I received mustard gas when attending to a comrade who had been hit by a mustard gas shell.”

What was medical support like?
“Very good as far as conditions allowed.”
What was your impression of the Germans as fighters?
“They varied as does all humanity.”
Was there any fraternisation between the two sides at any time?
“Not in my experience.”
Can you describe living conditions in the trenches?
“Fairly regular but occasionally supplies were difficult to get up from the support lines. We had to wait a day or two days to get a supply of bread.”
Did you or others ever think about mutiny?
“No.”
Were you decorated for your service?
“No.”
Were you ever informed about how the war was going generally?
“No.”
Were you given any details of the strategy that your unit was a part of?
“No. That was confined to the officers of the battalion.”
Did you feel patriotic?
“Yes.”
Did you feel you were doing the right thing? Or did despair overrule all your thinking?
“No.”
How did you feel about going out and killing people?
“I did not relish the thought but fortunately the occasion did not arise.”
Did you fight in the Second World War?
“No. I was in the Local Defence Volunteers there.”
Did you enjoy anything about the First World War?
“The comradeship.”
What sort of reception did you receive on your final return to England?
“On my final return to England I was retransferred to the army pay corps to help with the demobilisation.”
Have any of your feelings changed as the time has passed?
“No. I am still a pacifist.”
How do you feel about it all now, looking back?
“A terrible waste of human life.”
Has it influenced your feelings towards governments, politicians and King and Country?
“I am a humanitarian and therefore I think that by some means probably in future generations a method of living together internationally will be found.”
How do you feel about Germans and Germany now?
“I have no antipathy at all.”
What did you think about the other allied armies?
“The French were very obstinate particularly in their defence of Verdun.
Have you any other comments you would like to add?
“Pax vobiscum!”
John’s life after the Second World War

Soon after the war, John and Lily must have moved to 15 Sandhurst Road in Bexleyheath, near Danson Park. They were living in this house up until the 1960s, and after retirement they moved to 33 Parkstone Road in Hastings. They had a bungalow with a garden and a greenhouse which had an open outlook across school playing fields. Later, perhaps due to financial reasons, they moved into a flat above a shop and then in about 1984 Lily died. To be near family, John moved to an old people’s home in Darlington, Co Durham, close to his daughter Audrey. John died on 1 April 1990 and was cremated at Carmel Road Crematorium on a fine spring day.

Philip Lightowlers, April 2015

Sources

  • Births BROWN, JOHN PERCIVAL (Mother TILLIDUFF ) GRO Reference: 1895 M Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 1345
  • Marriages Sep 1915 Brown John P Henwood Woolwich 1d 3599 Henwood Lily E Brown Woolwich 1d 3599
  • Death Name: John Percival Brown Birth Date: 14 Jan 1895 Date of Registration: Apr 1990 Age at Death: 95 Registration district: Darlington Volume: 1Page: 792


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It may be possible to confirm family relationships with John by comparing test results with other carriers of his Y-chromosome or his mother's mitochondrial DNA. However, there are no known yDNA or mtDNA test-takers in his direct paternal or maternal line. It is likely that these autosomal DNA test-takers will share DNA with John:

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Images: 15
John Percival Brown aged about 17
John Percival Brown aged about 17

John Percival Brown Image 2
John Percival Brown Image 2

John Percival Brown with Joyce, Roy and Donald
John Percival Brown with Joyce, Roy and Donald

John Percival Brown and Lily
John Percival Brown and Lily

John Percival Brown Image 6
John Percival Brown Image 6

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John is 29 degrees from Judy Garland, 31 degrees from Mindy Silva and 19 degrees from Victoria of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.

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