no image
Privacy Level: Open (White)

Euphemia (Bruce) Kirkpatrick (aft. 1210)

Euphemia [uncertain] Kirkpatrick formerly Bruce
Born after in Scotlandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Wife of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Mother of
Died [date unknown] [location unknown]
Problems/Questions Profile manager: Scotland Project WikiTree private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 19 Mar 2014
This page has been accessed 2,803 times.
Scottish Clans
Euphemia (Bruce) Kirkpatrick was a prominent member of a Scottish Clan.
Join: Scotland Project
Discuss: Scotland

Biography

Euphemia Bruce was the daughther of Robert de Brus and Isabelle (Huntingdon) de Bruce.[1]

The wife of Ivone Kirkpatrick is said to be Euphemia, the daughter of Robert Brus, Lord of Annandale and Cleveland.[2][3] The identity of the wife of Ivone Kirkpatrick is, however, not completely proven but supported by a family tree that was at one time in the possession of James Bruce, 8th Earl of Elgin - see Research Notes below.

She married Ivone Kirkpatrick of Closeburn, son of William Kirkpatrick.

Child of Ivone Kirkpatrick of Closeburn and his wife:

Research Notes

Disputed parents: many editions of the Peerage give Robert de Brus (1206-1245) and Isabelle (Huntingdon) de Bruce (1199-1252) as the parents of the wife of Ivone Kirkpatrick of Closeburn and she has been previously identified as Euphemia Bruce. This, however, is not proven by beyond a doubt. Other reliable pre-1500 sources such as the The Scots Peerage don't mention a marriage between Euphemia, as daughter of Bruce, and Ivo Kirkpatrick.
Scots Peerage in 1904 makes no mention of Ivo of Kirkpatrick's wife. Ivo is named in at least 3 charters from William Bruce and Robert Bruce with no mention of his wife.[4] But one must consider that there was more than one Ivone (one the father of William Kirkpatrick and the other the son of William Kirkpatrick). Whether charters always named wives is an interesting question but as both the elder Ivone and younger Ivone had issue, one can be certain that they had mates and as the legitimacy of the children does not seem to be in question, these mates were likely wives. Therefore, if one accepts that they both had wives, the lack of their being mentioned in charters does not enter into whether the wife of the younger Ivone was or was not Euphame Bruce.

Sources

  1. Richardson, Douglas, "Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families", Salt Lake City: the author, 2013 Vol. I, p. 588
  2. Kirkpatrick, Richard Godman, "Memoir Respecting the Family of Kirkpatrick of Closeburn, in Nithsdale, with Notices of Some Collaterals", London: George Norman, 1858, Archive.org, p. 3
  3. Playfair, William. British Baronetage : Illustrative of the Origin and Progress of the Rank, Honours, and Personal Merit, of the Baronets of the United Kingdom, Accompanied with an Elegant Set of Chronological Charts, (London : T. Reynolds, and H. Grace, 1811) Vol. 3, part 1, page 339. Cites "family tree of the Bruces of Clackmannan, in the possession of the Earl of Elgin."
  4. Balfour Paul, James, Sir, The Scots Peerage (Edinburgh : D. Douglas, 1904) Vol. 1:231

See also:

  • Geni: Eufemia Bruce, which states: "The first mention of her name may have been made in the family history of Kirkpatrick of Closeburn that was published in London in 1858... The only evidence cited for the proposed marriage is a Bruce family tree said to be in the possession of the Earl of Elgin." (Cited above ref name=kirpatrick-3)




Sponsored Search by Ancestry.com

DNA
No known carriers of Euphemia's DNA have taken a DNA test.

Have you taken a DNA test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.



Comments: 28

Leave a message for others who see this profile.
There are no comments yet.
Login to post a comment.
Richardson, Douglas, "Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families", Salt Lake City: the author, 2013 Vol. I, p. 588 states that Robert de Brus and Isabel of Huntindon had "two sons . . . and on daughter, Euphame."

Richard Kirkpatrick cites a family tree from the Bruce family in support of Richardson as well as to identify her husband as Ivone Kirkpatrick.

posted by [Living Anderson]
Why does Scots Peerage not mention a Kirkpatrick/Bruce marriage? Richard Kirkpatrick published in 1858, well before Balfour Paul, so why doesn't Scots Peerage believe him? Does Richardson give us any proof that the daughter of Bruce married Kirkpatrick, or does he only say that Bruce had a daughter Euphemia?
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
I have the greatest respect for James Balfour Paul but he did make many errors including contradicting what he states in one volume in a different volume. When he lists children, he does a 'best effort' but I believe the intention is that it is not an exhaustive list unless he states an exact number or uses a word such as 'only.'
posted by [Living Anderson]
I have no idea why James Paul did not have this particular work. It might have been limited to only a handful of copies. Many such works had a press run of maybe two or three score with most going to relatives.
posted by [Living Anderson]
Yes, I agree. I was assuming that list on p589 was exhaustive.
posted by Nigel Parker
I know I'm repeating myself here, but ... what is the actual proof that Euphemia, daughter of Robert & Isabel, is the wife of Ivo?
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
I don't think we have any proof which satisifies pre-1500 source standards. The only source I know is the Richard Kirkpatrick source from 1858 which states the fact without proof.
posted by Nigel Parker
Actually, he states a point and cites a pedigree in the possession of the Earl of Elgin.
posted by [Living Anderson]
OK, we seem to have arrived at that Euphemia did exist. So her parents should be reinstated, citing Richardson. However her marriage depends on information in a family tree which is not currently available. I have searched online without result so far. Should we therefore detach the marriage, document its possibility, and await further developments?
posted by Nigel Parker
If one accepts that a family tree from the Bruce family in the possession of the Earl of Elgin is sufficient, then allow it to stand. I certainly do not know of a requirement that all references be online. Richardson's work, for example, is not on-line except for a subset of preview pages for earlier works.

It might be prudent to put any uncertainty in research notes for both profiles of the couple and possibly be sure to set the status for any children as 'uncertain' for the mother.

The Earl of Elgin at the time, was James Bruce, 8th Earl and it is possible that the current Earl, his great-grandson Andrew Bruce, 11th Earl has it in his possession. He looks to be age 97, so maybe one can contact his son Charles, Lord Bruce.

posted by [Living Anderson]
I wasn't suggesting that online availabilty is a requirement, only that it is the most covenient first place to look.

And on reflection, I think that the fact that a Bruce tree refers to a Kirkpatrick marriage makes it more credible than if it was a Kirkpatrick tree, given that the Kirkpatricks in the main held lands from the Bruces (excluding Closeburn).

But of course the crucial point is what the tree, if we could get hold of it, actually states.

posted by Nigel Parker
I just sent a message to Clan Bruce. Maybe something will turn up.
posted by [Living Anderson]
I know it is not a reliable source, bur for what it's worth, Burke also shows Euphemia as daughter of Robert Bruce of Annandale and wife of Ivone Kirpatrick.

Burke, John Bernard, "Burke's Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage, Baronetage, and Knightage, Privy Council, and order of preference" , London: Harrison & Sons, 1915, 77th ed., Archive.org, p. 1166

posted by [Living Anderson]
Burke seems to be the source which Richardson is relying on for "Euphame's' parentage. I've begun checking, and so far none of the other pedigrees which Richardson cites make any mention of her. It is also concerning that Richardson does not include her (at the bottom of his entry for Isabelle) among his list of the children.
posted by Jen (Stevens) Hutton
I've reattached the possible parents, and added the sources to help support the relationships. I also found an earlier iteration of the "family tree" held by the Earl of Elgin, this one published in 1811. If you should hear back from the Clan Bruce, it would be wonderful to know.

If either/both of you would like to check my work for errors, omissions or typos, I'd appreciate it.

posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
Do we know that she was a Brus? Or should she be Euphemia Unknown at this point?
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
I think she should remain Bruce so that anyone reading Burke's and looking at WT will find her, and see that Ivo probably never married a Bruce daughter.
posted by Nigel Parker
Thanks Nigel. Please review what I've done and let me know if you see any issues.
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
Thanks for removing the parents and the other additions Bobbie. I wonder if her marriage to Ivo should also be removed? Anyone coming directly to her profile will see that her existence is disputed, but looking at Ivo and Adam (his son) she looks legit. unless you click on her.
posted by Nigel Parker
Would you prefer that she be "Unknown Unknown"? We do know that Ivo had a wife, and that Adam had a mother, so she did exist. We just don't know her name (or anything else unfortunately). With the current info in her biography we've enumerated her disputed parents (and removed them) and shown what sources named her as such. We can certainly remove her given name and the "Formerly Bruce." But I do not think she should be removed as wife/mother as this allows us to show the disputed information so that Euphemia Bruce doesn't "reappear" in another form. I normally don't like "unknown unknown" but I do like to have a profile that contains source information, albeit incorrect sometimes.
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
As far as I can find out, this lady's existence is attested only by the various manifestations of the Peerage: I propose that she gets a
Research suggests that this person may never have existed. See the text for details.
template and be detached from her husband and father.
posted by Nigel Parker
edited by Nigel Parker
Before doing anything drastic, I'd like to know the content of the citation that thepeerage.com gives:

BP 2003 volume 2, page 2198. [Which is in full: Mosley, Charles, editor. Burke's Peerage, Baronetage & Knightage, 107th edition, 3 volumes. Wilmington, Delaware, U.S.A.: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 2003.]

posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
edited by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
I don't have access to the 2003 version, but the 1949 version contains the following (paraphrasing for clarity):
  • Robert Bruce (d1245) and Isobel of Huntingdon had issue, with a daughter Beatrice and an only son Robert Bruce (the Competitor). [p. cclxxxvii]
  • Ivone Kirkpatrick m. Lady Euphemia, dau. of ROBERT THE BRUCE, Lord of Annandale and Cleveland. [p 1145]
posted by Nigel Parker
I also note that there's no mention of Ivo of Kirkpatrick's wife mentioned in any of the charters of Bruce. There's a good writeup on him in The Annandale family book of the Johnstones, Earls and Marquises of Annandale., and nowhere is a wife mentioned. If she was a Bruce daughter, I would think she might be mentioned?

I'm now in agreement with you Nigel, failing someone being able to access what's in the 2003 edition of Burke's, I would suggest her detatchment, but please leave a = Disputed Parents = section with the unproven parents for future reference.

posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
OK, I have added the disputed parents paragraph. But I can't do the detachments because of the project protection.
posted by Nigel Parker
Richardson does list a daughter Euphame on p. 588
posted by [Living Anderson]
Bruce-3937 and Bruce-2279 appear to represent the same person because: Looks like these two profiles are the same person. If you agree please merge- thanks
posted by Maria Maxwell
I am the manager of Clan Bruce in the Scottish Clans Project. Please do me a favor and change the LNAB from "de Bruce" to simply "Bruce." It makes the name a little easier to sort and is in line with Wikitree's naming policies. Thanks very much!
posted by Michael Thomas

B  >  Bruce  |  K  >  Kirkpatrick  >  Euphemia (Bruce) Kirkpatrick

Categories: Scotland Project Managed Clan Profiles