Avice (Clare) de Toeni
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Avice (Clare) de Toeni

Avice de Toeni formerly Clare aka de Clare
Born [date unknown] [location unknown]
Daughter of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Wife of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died in Stafford, Staffordshire, Englandmap
Problems/Questions Profile manager: PE Rosner private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 18 Feb 2011
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Biography

European Aristocracy
Avice Clare was a member of the aristocracy in England.

Peter Stewart has remarked:[1]

She was mentioned without name in the pipe roll for 1130, Rotul Scacc Henr I 82 (expanded here): Et idem Ricardus [Basset] reddit compotum de .xxxv. marcis argenti pro terra matris Nicholai vicecomitis de Statford. According to Eyton (1880) 16 ‘This is probably but the residuary account of a somewhat antique Fine’, but he gave no evidence for this; in any case, the mention of her may mean only that the land in question had passed to Nicholas on his mother’s death and does not necessarily imply that the lady herself was still living. There is no contemporary evidence for the name or family of Robert’s wife. She was called ‘Avice de Clare’ in a verse history kept at Stone priory in 1537, Monast Angl vi/I 230–231 Cartae ad prioratum de Stone, in agro Staffordiensi, spectantes no 2, ‘The Copie of the Table that was hanging in the Priorie of Stone, at the time of the Suppression of the same’:
‘In the time of the Conquest was the lord of Stafford
Baron Robert, which here was chief lord ...
And when that he had builded this place,
Then he dyed as God’s will was,
In the entry of the cloyster he was buried sekerly,
And Avice de Clare his wife lyeth him by.’
This goes on to describe the burial place of Robert’s namesake grandson and the latter’s wife, also Avice, both of whom we know from better evidence to have been actually buried at Stone
[...]
since we know from better evidence that Robert the Domesday lord of Stafford was almost certainly buried at Evesham, where he had become a monk in his last illness [...], and that his grandson Robert was buried at Stone with a wife name Avice, it seems likely that the two had become confused by the mid-15th century or later, whenever this doggerel was composed (after October 1438, if it is even genuine to that period), and then doubled up by the versifier. Whether or noteither Robert’s wife belonged to the Clare family is unknown, and it is worthless to speculate about possible connections on such a flimsy basis.

Charles Cawley, writes on the MEDLANDS website:[2]

A table (obviously of late composition because of the language), hanging in Stone priory at the time of the dissolution of the monasteries, names “Avice de Clare” as the wife of Robert and records their burial at Stone. It is far from certain that this information is accurate. No person of that name has yet been identified, and the name "Clare" only appears to have been used by the descendants of Robert de Brionne from the early 12th century

Sources

  1. Peter Stewart, http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bobwolfe/gentxt/Origin_and_early_generations_of_the_Tosny_family.pdf
  2. Charles Cawley, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL2.htm#RobertStafforddied1088B




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Comments: 11

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Hello, sometimes these are confusing, but I don't think there is any possibility this Avice was a daughter of Richard fitz Gilbert and Rohese Giffard. According to Medieval Lands, a site I have a lot of confidence in, they did have a daughter named Avice de Clare, but she was born decades later, and married Raoul de Fougères, who died in 1124 (almost 40 years after this Avice died); and they had three named children at least. Maybe this lady was a sister or cousin of Richard or Rohese, but we'll probably never know.
posted by Joel Rane
Hi Joel, if you are pre-1500 certified here on wikitree, you can make corrections or adjustments to this profile. I can not. If you aren't , then you can go to the G2G forum here on wikitree and request someone with the proper certification to make the changes. Thanks!
posted by PE Rosner
Thanks! I will do that. I can add, I'm a librarian so I'm always skeptical of this site, and of course Wikipedia, MyHeritage, FamilySearch, and Find-a-Grave are even worse. However, this error seems particularly egregious.
posted by Joel Rane
Have the following:

Avise de Clare was born circa 1044 Clare Suffolk England.

posted by Rod Piper
This Avice de Stafford (Clare-59) is daughter of Richard Fitz Gilbert de Clare (Clare-15). Her LNAB should be FitzRichard. She is wife of Robert de Toeni/Tosny de Stafford (Toeni-30). Thank you!
posted by Clare Bromley III
edited by Clare Bromley III
Checked both women and Avice de Clare her father being identified as Earl of Clare.
posted by Rod Piper
Yes, Richard FitzGilbert de Clare (Clare-15) was Earl of Clare, appointed such by King William, accompanying William on his Norman invasion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_fitz_Gilbert#cite_note-CPIII242-3 and references 11 and 12 there. The pedigree from 12 is posted on this profile. Additional information is found on pages 239-240 especially references on 240 re Avice. 45 Generations - Ancestors of Val W Smith & Alberta J Matelena. by Brian A. Smith, D.C., Publication date 2020-07-25. https://archive.org/details/2020-the-ancestors-of-val-w-smith-alberta-j-matelena-compressed/2020%2045%20Generations/page/238/mode/2up
posted by Clare Bromley III
Date discrepancies don't necessarily invalidate but dates need to be looked at. Rohese born 1036, Avice born 1044, Nigel born 1065.
posted by C. Mackinnon
Clare-503 and Clare-59 appear to represent the same person because: same person.
posted by Steve Selbrede
It is unclear why the unmerged match exists, since they seem to be the same person. I will remove the unmerged match and try again.
posted by Steve Selbrede
Clare-490 and Clare-59 do not represent the same person because: Sisters. Corrected given name.
posted by Sunny (Trimbee) Clark

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