Richard Draper
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Richard Draper

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Signed 23 Sep 2012 | 7093 contributions | 382 thank-yous
Communication Preferences: I am interested in communicating private message with anyone who shares the same ancestors. My family tree is here on WikiTree but it's private.
I have information farther back than what is on Wikitree. I posted as much as I thought I could handle. (And I had too much faith in myself! I don't get up into the WIkitree as often as I would like.)
The Rev. Richard T. Draper
Born 1940s.
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Profile last modified | Created 13 Sep 2011
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Hello Richard Draper! It looks like we are both Van Valkenburg Researchers. My ancestor Joachim Lambert Van Valkenburg did not have a son James who you created a profile for. His children were all born several years before your James so he could not be a son of my Joachim. It is possible that you descend from his son Harme who left New York to settle in Pennsylvania so since you reported that your James was born in Pennsylvania and not New York then it only makes sense that Harme may be your ancestor. Have you looked at the book entitled "Genealogy Of The Van Valkenburg Family In America" published by the Van Valkenburg Family Association? I'll be happy to help you figure out your Van Valkenburg Lineage if I can. I will soon be 77 years old so my life is running it's course. Are you older then me? Anyway God Bless cousin Richard. Please let me hear from you my e-mail address is foxy4401 @hotmail.com.
posted by William Fox Jr.
Hi, Richard. I don't think you looked carefully at the text sections of the profiles, or at my merge-proposal comment, before you rejected the merge of Van Houten-80 and Boelen-41.

These are not merely two girls born the same year. Both profiles claim that she was baptized in the New York church on 8 October 1662.

My merge comment said:

I think that Van Houten-80 is a mistake. There was only one child of any name baptized in the New York Dutch Church on the date given for baptism on both of these profiles. That child is Tryntie Boelen. I find no evidence for the existence of Roelof Corneliszen van Houten having a daughter Catherine.
As Leader, I could merge these profiles (basically merging Van Houten-80 out of existence), but I would like the contributor(s) to the Van Houten profile to weigh in if they have evidence for her that I have not discovered.

You created the Van Houten profile and you are still the only member who has contributed to it. The only cited source is the Ancestral File at https://www.familysearch.org/search/family-trees/results?q.afnId=G5VJ-FX . The Ancestral File is not a reliable source, there are no sources identified in the entries there, and the only data in those entries is the 8 October 1662 christening date. If you have some other sources or other evidence for Catherine Van Houten, please bring it forward. Without evidence for her, I have to conclude the data in the Ancestral File and on that profile is a mistake.

posted by Ellen Smith
Hello again, Richard.

After looking into the profile of Henry Van Houten that you created as the brother of Catherine van Houten, I am firmly convinced that a contributor to the Ancestry File (whose work was copied by additional Ancestral File contributors) mistakenly identified Tryntie Boelen as a child of Roelof Cornelissen, the progenitor of the van Houten family. Henry van Houten is another person who does not appear in any Van Houten documentation I have consulted, and the baptism record for Hendrick Boelen matches the record cited for Henry van Houten in the WikiTree profile and the Ancestral File. I have already changed the parents on the Henry profile and corrected his LNAB.

See my note at Boelen-174.

Thank you for creating these profiles back in 2011. The Ancestral File was a good starting place for creating genealogy in WikiTree, but we need to recognize that it is not a reliable source and sometimes is seriously erroneous.

posted by Ellen Smith
I agree with you on re. the unreliability of Family Search. Although the other information about the Van Houghton family makes her inclusion plausible, it could be inaccurate. It wouldn't be the first time for Family Search. But why MERGE them? I would think it better to just leave Catherine Van Houghton out there as a possibility. I have no other data about Catherine, so, if she does not exist, it will not lead anyone astray. The Van Houghton's are not likely to request child support and if non-existent, Catherine offers a legacy to no one. On the other hand, she MIGHT exist. My records say only that she was Christened in New York on that day. No church is named. Since there are two other children in the household about the same time, she may have been a twin - or a triplet and not even survived beyond that day. I won't fight you on this, because I see no reason for the effort, at least for my lineage. But somewhere, there may be connecting material we don't know about and I see no value in closing the possibility. I haven't done a lot of work on my Dutch ancestry in 25-30 years. I can say for sure that I have not encountered the Boelen family in my searches. So they were not likely to have comingled in my own files. Just be sure that Catherine's AFN didn't get imported. I don't find them to be of great use, but they could send someone on a wild goose chase if they ended up with Tryntie Boelen!
posted by Richard Draper
The idea that a merge was needed did not originate with me. It came from a member named VanHouten who posted https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1219085/vanhouten-79-and-vanhouten-80-not-van-houtens back in April. He was rather sure that Catherine and Henry Van Houten did not exist. I confess that I did not fully digest his G2G statement, but I did propose to merge the two profiles for Catherine/Tryntje baptized on the same date.

More recently, after reviewing some publications about the Van Houten family (and seeing no mention of Catherine or Henry), reviewing the New Amsterdam Dutch Church baptism records for the dates that Catherine and Henry were said to have been baptized, and checking the cited entries in the Ancestral File, it became very clear to me that someone had convinced themselves that the baptized children recorded as children of Boele Roelofszen were in fact the children of Roelof Cornelissen.

posted by Ellen Smith
edited by Ellen Smith
Good morning Richard,

Kim Williams and I have been researching Elizabeth Hawes the daughter of Edward and Eliony Hawes (Hawes-342) She can not find Elizabeth mentioned as a daughter of Edward Hawes in a printed book with births in Dedham which she posted a link to on Elizabeth's page. I can not find it in Familysearch.org in a handwritten register of births in Dedham. She is not mentioned in Edward's will, which is transcribed on his person page. In Familysearch someone had given her a birth date in 1656, but John Hawes was born two months before that. We would like to remove Elizabeth from Edward and Eliony's family. I see you are active in Wikitree, and so I thought I would give you a chance to reply before we did it. Perhaps you have information we did not find.

posted by Cindy (Hawes) Van Dam
Hello Cindy! Elizabeth is not my direct ancestor, so I have not done much to research her. In my records, she does fit logically into the birth sequence. I'm not one to say that absence of record is evidence of nonexistence. Things were not as orderly 370-some years ago. Sometimes things did not get written down - or they got written down somewhere else we have not discovered. I do know that at that time Anglican clergy often took the records with them when they moved to a new parish. If there were not also court records, some things could be lost. Since Elizabeth is only in my records as a collateral, I have no huge objections, but if you delete her, it may interfere with someone else's research later on - if it proved to be only clerical error. Why not just find a way to flag her records in a way that will easily show up stating that you have your doubts about the linkage? Rick Draper (Draper-310)
posted by Richard Draper
Hi Richard, please check the "Suggestions" list for ways to refine the profiles that you manage.

https://wikitree.sdms.si/function/WTWeb/Suggestions.htm?UserID=2816169

I have just finished viewing your compact tree and your surnames list. It seems my husband and I share several ancestors' surnames with you. Mine seems to start with Susanna Byram Edson down through Dutch settlers in NY. My husband seems to start in Dutch NY also.

I am new to WikiTree so I am not sure if I am doing things correctly.

Hello Richard Draper are you a direct descendant of senator Henry Clay? have you uploaded your DNA to GEDmatch ?

Keith Winstead

posted by [Living Winstead]
I am also looking for a descendant of Henry Clay. I am also looking for descendants of Sarah "Sally" Hall. Thank you.

Christy

posted by Christy Porter
Hi Debra - I guess I have to wait to hear from other managers. I have addressed the ones I have heard so far. Some of the children may still need to get sorted out. I may not have all of the information necessary to get it all unsnarled by myself. We'll see who claims who. Katherine (Chapin) Marshfield will need to be merged as well, it appears.
posted by Richard Draper
Richard, in reply to your post on the profile-I agree. "Bliss-4761 and Bliss-50 appear to represent the same person because: Errors of an earlier merge have been corrected. Bliss-4761 and Bliss-50 are the same guy." Unfortunately, some of the other profile managers disagree. If you could possibly get the others to agree, I will be happy to merge the profiles.
posted by [Living Hudnall]
That's what I was attempting to do, Cheryl. My records record Dorothy's last name as Wheatley. Wheatley-7 was the one I was working with. Is there another?
posted by Richard Draper
Hi Richard,

I note you added Dorothy Wheatlie as the wife of Thomas Bliss-1. You'll see the note at the top of the profile of Bliss-1 that there were 3 different Thomas Blisses in New England at that time (per AnneB's research) Wheatly- was the wife of Thomas Bliss-709. Will you please make this fix and add Dorothy Wheatlie to the correct husband? Thanks.

Hi. Starting a conversation in G2G about providing the proper mother for Frances St George
posted by C. Mackinnon
Hi Rick,

I have started a G2G for Teunis and the connection to his correct parents now to make sure everyone is ok with the change of parents. You can find a link to that G2G at his profile.

Thanks for your help and enthusiasm !

Bea :)

posted by Bea (Timmerman) Wijma
Hi and thank you Richard for sharing all that info, there indeed were several different van der Poel families or family members.

And yes Teunis or Anthoni Cornelis van der Poel was one of them, but the problem is, he is from a different family, so he is not the son of Gerrit van der Poel and his wife Cornelia Wynants, but the son of Cornelis Corneliss van der Poel and his wife Neeltgen Hendricks van Tieland.

So we now can connect him to the correct parents if you agree and would like to have this corrected as well of course, if he was a son of Gerrit his patronymic would also have been Gerrits or Gerritsz, but his patronymic was Cornelis or Cornelisz, there are many Notarial deeds for his parents and siblings and the one where he was mentioned (+ his very likely brother in law) is added to his profile and no hurry, so just take your time.

Greets and have a wonderful weekend and thanks for the kind help !

Bea :)

posted by Bea (Timmerman) Wijma
Hi: Thanks for getting back to me regarding Shara Ormsbee Bliss...Marie
posted by Marie Chantigny
I came to that same conclusion Ots-toch was a full blooded Mohawk and cornelius Antonsen Van slyke are cornelius Mother and father, i'm sure there are other children Jaques cornelius is my 9 times great grandfather and started our family line.
posted by [Living Blair]

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