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Marared ferch Madog (abt. 1129 - abt. 1201)

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Marared (Margaret) ferch Madog aka verch Madoc, of Powys, of Gwynedd
Born about in Powys, Walesmap
Ancestors ancestors
Wife of — married in Aberffraw Castle, Ynys Mon, Gwynedd, Walesmap
Descendants descendants
Died about in Kingdom of Gwyneddmap
Profile last modified | Created 21 Mar 2011
This page has been accessed 4,042 times.

Categories: Cymru 742-1535 Project | Cymru 742-1535.

European Aristocracy
Margaret ferch Madog was a member of royalty, nobility or aristocracy in Wales in the Middle Ages.
Join: Cymru Welsh Royals and Aristocrats 742-1535 Project
Discuss: CYMRU

Contents

Biography

Marared[1] ferch Madog was born about 1130. She was called Margred, Marared, Marget, Marred, Marret, and Marvred in various records.

She was the daughter of Madog ap Maredudd, the Brenin of Powys. The place of her birth is not known, but she was of Montgomeryshire. The identity of her mother is not certain. It was probably Susanna ferch Gruffudd ap Cynan, although according to the FamilySearch Welsh Medieval Database, Bartrum does not list a name for her.[2] Lloyd gives Susanna as her mother[3] as does Dwinn.[4]

Margred married Iorwerth "Drwyndwn" ab Owain "Gwynedd" about 1163. They had two children:

  • Llywelyn "Mawr" ap Iorwerth "Drwyndwn", Prince of Aberffraw, Lord of Snowdon, "Llywelyn the Great", b. ca. 1173
  • Adda ap Iorwerth "Drwyndwn", b. ca. 1170

The date of Margred's death is not known, although some merged profiles, citing online trees, showed that she died 1196/1198.

Research Notes

Corbet Connection

Historians at one point speculated that the mother of Llewelyn the Great was a Corbet.
Stewart Baldwin, in his table of Llewelyn's ancestry, discusses this speculation:
"Llywelyn refers to a certain Walter Corbet as frater Willielmi Corbet avunculi mei [leading to the suggestion] that Llywelyn's mother was a Corbet. . . . However, as the source of JC.29 [for Margred ferch Madog] appears to have been written during Llywelyn's lifetime, and there are others ways in which an uncle-nephew relationship between William Corbet (an obscure individual) and Llywelyn could be explained, there seems to be no good reason to reject the statement of JC.29 regarding the identity of Llywelyn's mother."[5]
One of those other ways is that Margred married a Corbet who raised Llewelyn, as suggested by Sharon Kaye Penman. In her novel, Here Be Dragons, she has Llewelyn raised by a Corbet stepfather, with the following explanation in her author's note:
"Historians have long been cognizant of his kinship to the Corbet family; he often stayed his hand, spared Corbet lands, and a letter of his addresses William Corbet as 'uncle'. In researching the Corbet family, I was able to eliminate Robert Corbet without difficulty. His brother William was the 'uncle' of Llewelyn's letter. Walter Corbet was a monk. By the process of elimination, Hugh Corbet had to be Marared's second husband, Llewelyn's stepfather."[6][7]
Sir Arthur E. Turner-Thomas, whose Celtic Royal Genealogy is posted online in Rootsweb, includes the following on the entry for Llywelyn Fawr:
"He [Iorwerth ab Owain] married Marared ferch Madog ap Maredudd of Powys. and it is possible their son Llywelyn was brought up largely outside Gwyncdd (which in the 1180s may not have been a safe environment for a child with a claim to a share of land and power). Charter evidence suggests that Marared remarried into a Shropshire Marcher family, the Corbels [sic] of Caux. The Corbet lands abutted on Powys, and a Corbet might have seemed a suitable husband for a widowed Powysian princess. If Marared did marry into the Corbets, then Llywelyn may have received part of his upbringing and education in the March. Throughout his life. Llywelyn would show himself adept both at dealing with the Marcher lords, and with negotiating the complex world of English court politics. This could well be a by-product of an education in the mixed Anglo-Welsh world of the March.'"[8]

Biography: A Corbet Daughter who married Iorwerth ab Owain?

A duplicate profile (for Corbet-168), that duplicated much of the information already in this profile (ferch Madog-1), was merged 1 January 2018. It had marriage as married 1168 in Pontesbury, Shropshire, England and the following:

Many genealogies show a daughter of Simon Corbet who married Iorwerth ab Owain, father of Llywelyn ap Iorwerth. For instance, Augusta Corbet wrote in 1915: "One of (Thomas Corbet's) sisters became the wife of Jowerth, the father of the Great llewellyn ap Jowerth." [9]

This supposition appears to be based on a reference by Llywelyn to a certain Walter Corbet as frater Willielmi Corbet avunculi mei. If William Corbet was Iorwerth's uncle, then surely Iorwerth's mother was William's sister, an unnamed Corbet, as reflected in Augusta Corbet's conclusion. But there are other ways an uncle-nephew relationship can be established.

It is now well established that Llywelyn ap Iorwerth"s mother was Marared ferch Madog. Cawley reports that Marared ferch Madog was born about 1130 and was called Margred, Marared, Marget, Marred, Marret, and Marvred in various records. [10]

Yet there were clearly other signs of some Corbet connection. "Historians have long been cognizant of (Llywelyn's) kinship to the Corbet family; he often stayed his hand, spared Corbet lands, and a letter of his addresses William Corbet as 'uncle'. [11]

Penman concludes that in order for Llywelyn's reference to William as an uncle to be correct, Marared must have made a second marriage after Iorwerth's death in 1174. [12]

Who would Marared's second husband be? "In researching the Corbet family, I was able to eliminate Robert Corbet without difficulty. His brother William was the 'uncle' of Llewelyn's letter. Walter Corbet was a monk. By the process of elimination, Hugh Corbet had to be Marared's second husband, Llewelyn's stepfather."[11] [13]

Sources

  1. Marared m Iorwerth Drwyndwyn, Foundation for Medieval Genealogy database compiled by Charles Cawley (accessed Dec. 20, 2016).
  2. FamilySearch Welsh Medieval Database, FS Welsh note - FamilySearch reorganized its records and the link no longer works; as of June 23, 2017, the following FS biographies were found that pertain:
  3. Lloyd, Jacob Youde William. The History of the Princes, the Lords Marcher and the Ancient Nobility of Powys Fodog and the Ancient Lords of Arwystli, Cedewen and Meirionydd. London: T. Richards, 1881-1887. HathiTrust Vol. 1, Pages 119ff
  4. Lewys Dwnn, transcribed and edited with notes by Sir Samuel Rush Meyrick. Heraldic Visitations of Wales and Part of the Marches Between the Years 1586 and 1613. Llandovery: William Rees, 1846. InternetArchive , Vol. 2, Page 54
  5. Stewart Baldwin's table of Llywelyn's ancestry.
    • JC: Jesus College (Oxford) MS. 20, in EWGT, pp. 41-50. The manuscript itself is from the fourteenth century, but since the latest individuals mentioned in the manuscript are Llywelyn ap Iorwerth and some of his contemporaries, its source appears to date from the early thirteenth century (or perhaps a bit earlier - see the sources cited in EWGT, p. 41).
    • EWGT: Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts, edited by P. C. Bartrum (University of Wales Press, Cardiff, 1966).
  6. Gen-Medieval 1999 Rootsweb post, AJones
    Note - the Rootsweb post correctly quotes the author's note that calls her (incorrectly) "Marared ferch Meredydd", but when introduced in the novel (page 7), she is "Marared, daughter of Prince Madog ap Meredydd."
  7. see also Stewart Baldwin's Gen-Medieval 1999 Rootsweb post in the same thread.
  8. source one of the following (the first followed the entry; the second preceded it), probably the first one:
    • Kari Maund, The Welsh Kings, The Medieval Rulers of Cymru, Tempus, Stroud, 2002
    • Davies J, 1990, A History of Cymru, Penguin, London, ISBN 0-14-014581-8
  9. Augusta Elizabeth Brickdale Corbet. The family of Corbet, its Life and Times. London: The St. Catherine Press, 1915. Volume II, page 218 Jowerth Accessed October 23, 2017. jhd
  10. Charles Cawley. Foundation for Medieval Genealogy. Marared m Iorwerth Drwyndwyn Marared, Accessed Dec. 20, 2016).
  11. 11.0 11.1 Rootsweb: Gen-Medieval Archives Gen-Medieval 1999 Rootsweb post, A Jones
    Note - the Rootsweb post correctly quotes the author's note that calls her (incorrectly) "Marared ferch Meredydd", but when introduced in the novel (page 7), she is "Marared, daughter of Prince Madog ap Meredydd."
  12. Sharon Penman, Author's Note, Here Be Dragons. As a writer of historical fiction, does substantive research to make sure that the settings for her stories are as factually accurate as possible. Cited by A. Jones. Gen-Medieval List {http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/1999-10/0939744900 Llywelyn'd daughter Margaret and the de Braose Family] 12 October 1699. Accessed October 13, 2017. jhd
  13. see also Stewart Baldwin's Gen-Medieval 1999 Rootsweb post in the same thread.
See also:
The FMG database MEDIEVAL LANDS: A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families by Charles Cawley,© Foundation for Medieval Genealogy, 2000-2013.
For the Cymru project, see the Medieval Lands section on Wales.


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Collaboration

On 21 Dec 2016 at 04:31 GMT Liz (Noland) Shifflett wrote:

ap Iorwerth / ab Owain (see this G2G discussion)

On 21 Mar 2015 at 22:53 GMT Vic Watt wrote:

I have included Margred as one of the first profiles in the new Cymru project. Please take at look and tell me what you think. Additions and correction and suggestions for other resources would be appreciated. Vic

On 19 May 2014 at 20:37 GMT Michelle (Bairfield) Brooks wrote:

Madoc-18 and Ferch Madog-1 appear to represent the same person because: would be best to remove protected status to merge into the profile without the preposition.



Margaret is 26 degrees from SJ Baty, 28 degrees from Orville Redenbacher and 19 degrees from Victoria of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.

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