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Piers FitzHerbert (abt. 1163 - bef. 1235)

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Piers "Lord of Blaen Llyfni in Wales" FitzHerbert
Born about in Blewleveny Castle, Blaen Llyfni, Brecknockshire, Walesmap [uncertain]
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married about Nov 1203 (to before 1225) in Clavering, Essex, Englandmap
Husband of — married about 1225 [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died before in Buried at Reading Abbey, Berkshire, Englandmap
Profile last modified 15 Sep 2019 | Created 11 Jul 2014 | Last significant change: 15 Sep 2019
03:47: Liz (Noland) Shifflett posted a message on the page for Piers FitzHerbert (abt.1163-bef.1235). [Thank Liz for this | 2 thank-yous received]
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Illustrious Men
Piers FitzHerbert was one of 16 Illustrious Men, counselors to King John, who were listed in the preamble to Magna Carta.
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Contents

Biography

Piers FitzHerbert was a member of aristocracy in the British Isles.

Peter Fitz Herbert of Blaen Llyfni (in Cathedine), Breconshire, Wales...Keeper of Pickering Castle, Sheriff of Yorkshire[1]

Piers "Peter" Fitz Herbert, son of Herbert FitzHerbert and his wife Lucy of Hereford daughter of Miles of Gloucester,[2] was born about 1163 in Blewleveny Castle, Blaen Llyfni, Brecknockshire, Wales[citation needed] (adult by 1204[1]).
Peter Fitz Herbert married twice:
  • He married first, (marriage settlement 28 Nov 1203)[1], Alice of Warkworth, daughter of ROBERT FitzRoger of Warkworth & his wife Margery de Chesney.[1][3] in Clavering, Essex, England[citation needed]
  • He married 2nd, Isabel de Ferrers, widow of Roger Mortimer and daughter of Walkelin de Ferrers.[1][4][5][6][7] (Lady Wigmore de Ferrers),[citation needed] married in or before 1225. They had no known issue.[1]
By his first wife Alice, Peter was the father of Herbert (knight), Reynold (aka Reginald) (knight), and Lucy, who married William de Roos.[1]
Peter Fitz Herbert died shortly before June 6, 1235 and was buried at Reading, Berkshire.[1]

Not found in primary Source

  • There is no evidence that Peter Fitz Herbert married Sibyl de Dinham, as listed at Geni.[13]

Notes

Piers Fitz Herbert, son and eventual heir, seen 1204, d. shortly bef. 6 June 1235, buried at Reading, through mother, heir to a 1/3 interest in the barony of Miles Fitz Walter of Gloucester, Earl of Hereford; m. (1) settlement dated 28 Nov 1203,[1] Alice de Warkworth, daughter of Robert Fitz Roger, 2nd Baron of Warkworth (father of John Fitz Robert); m. (2) in or bef. 1225, Isabel de Ferrieres, d. shortly bef. 29 Apr 1252[1], widow of Roger de Mortimer[1], daughter of Walkelin de Ferieres, seigneur of Ferrieres-Saint-Hilaire and lord of Oakham, co. Rutland.[15]
Peter Fitz-Herbert, Baron of Barnstable in Devonshire, the honor of which he obtained from King John with fifteen knight's fees, part of the lands of William de Braose, and he was made Governor of Pickering Castle in Yorkshire, and Sheriff of that county by the same monarch. This Peter was one of the barons named in Magna Carta and, by his signature, fourth in rank amongst the barons. He m. first, Alice, dau. of Robert Fitz Roger, a great baron in Northumberland, Lord of Warkworth and Clavering, and sister of John, to whom Edward I gave the surname of Clavering, Lord of Callaly in Northumberland. By this lady he had a son and heir, Reginald Fitz Peter.[16] Peter Fitz Herbert married about 1225, for his second wife, Isabel Ferrers, daughter of Walkelin de Ferrers (and widow of Roger de Mortimer who died in 24 June 1214).[1] They had no children, and Peter predeceased his second wife who died about 29 April 1252.[1]
He fortified his castle of Blenlevenny, and, dying in 1235, was s. by his son, Reginald FitzPeter, Lord of Blenlevenny.[17]
Peter Fitz-Herbert, who, being very obsequious to King John, was reputed one of that prince's evil counsellors. In 1214, he was constituted governor of Pykering Castle, co. York, and sheriff of the shire; but afterwards falling off in his allegiance, his lands at Alcester were seized by the crown, and given to William de Camvill. Returning, however, to his duty upon the accession of Henry III, those lands were restored to him. [18]

Illustrious Man

"The preamble to Magna Carta lists "Illustrious Men", barons who were counselors to King John, immediately after listing the bishops ("venerable fathers"). William Marshal, Earl of Pembroke, was named first, even before King John's half brother William Longespee, Earl of Salisbury. It is known to history that William Marshal and others of the king's counselors advised him to put his seal to the document."[19]
See this translation that lists the illustrious men.

Notes and Sources on Parent conflict for Isabel

The following quotes have been edited from the above "Notes" section. The sources used have been superseded by more recent research by Douglas Richardson, author of Magna Carta Ancestry (2011) and Royal Ancestry (2013), Frederick Lewis Weis, author of Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists (1999) and The Magna Charta Sureties 1215 (1999), and others.
"He m. secondly, Isabel, dau. and coheir of William de Braose, and widow of David Llewellin, Prince of Wales, and by the alliance acquired the lordships and castle of Blenlevenny and Talgarth in the county of Brecknock, with other possessions in Wales. [20]
"He m. 1st, Alice, dau. of Roger Fitz-Roger, a great baron in Northumberland, but by her had no issue; and 2ndly, the 3rd dau. and co-heir of William de Braose, Baron of Brecknock, and d. 1235, leaving a son, Herbert Fitz-Peter.[21]"
There is an excellent discussion of why Isabel (de Ferrers) Fitz Herbert was not the daughter of William de Braose, and not the widow of David Llewellin, in Notes and Queries, Oxford University Press, (1881), page 313. See also Antiquities of Shropshire, Volume 7, pages 153-155, author: Robert William Eyton, pub. J.R. Smith, (1858), digital copy at Google Books.

Sources

  1. 1.00 1.01 1.02 1.03 1.04 1.05 1.06 1.07 1.08 1.09 1.10 1.11 1.12 1.13 1.14 1.15 Royal Ancestry, FITZ HERBERT #4, Vol II, pp 621-622 (Richardson
  2. Royal Ancestry, FITZ HERBERT #3, Vol II, p 620 (Richardson
  3. Cawley. Entry for Piers FitzHerbert in Medieval Lands database: "The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified."
  4. Cawley. Entry for Isabel Ferrers in Medieval Lands database.
  5. Fine Roll C 60/22, 9 HENRY III (1224–1225): 53 & 154 [1]
  6. Fine Roll C 60/27, 12 HENRY III (1227–1228): 289 [2]
  7. Fine Roll C 60/28, 13 HENRY III (1228–1229): 177 [3]
  8. Cawley. Entry for Piers FitzHerbert in Medieval Lands database: first son of Piers and his first wife, Alice:
    • Herbert FitzPiers of Blaenllyfni (-before 27 May 1248). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified.
  9. Cawley. Entry for Piers FitzHerbert in Medieval Lands database: second son of Piers and his first wife, Alice:
    • Reynold FitzPiers (-4/5 May 1286). "Reginald son of Peter" was granted rights in "demesne lands in Lechamstede, co. Berks" dated 26 Sep 1257[509].
      • [509] Calendar Charter Rolls Henry III, Vol. I, p. 474.
  10. this page has quite a collection of quoted material from various sources, including references to son Reginald)
  11. Royal Ancestry, ROOS #6, Vol IV, p 489 (Richardson)
  12. Find a Grave memorial #72325963 for Piers "Peter" FitzHerbert;
    Find a Grave memorial #146916898 for Lucy (FitzPiers) de Ros
  13. Geni, Piers FitzHerbert
  14. the profile for Joan m Nicholas Verdun may be a muddle of information & became attached to Piers FitzHerbert through the profile of Isabell de Braose being incorrectly attached as his wife. This blog mentions a Joan (Joanna), Sir Nicholas Verdun (and wife Clementia), and the de Braose family.
  15. Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, 7th Edition, by Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Shippard Jr., 1999 (Page: 262-29)
  16. John Burke, History of the Commoners of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. IV, R. Bentley, London, 1834, p. 728, Jones, of Llanarth (from Piers FitzHerbert on Geni)
  17. John Burke, History of the Commoners of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. IV, R. Bentley, London, 1834, p. 728, Jones, of Llanarth (from Piers FitzHerbert on Geni)
  18. Sir Bernard Burke, Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages, Burke's Peerage, Ltd., London, 1883, p. 206, Fitz-Herbert, Baron Fitz-Herbert
  19. from the Magna Carta project's category page, Illustrious Men
  20. John Burke, History of the Commoners of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. IV, R. Bentley, London, 1834, p. 728, Jones, of Llanarth (from Piers FitzHerbert on Geni)
  21. Sir Bernard Burke, Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages, Burke's Peerage, Ltd., London, 1883, p. 206, Fitz-Herbert, Baron Fitz-Herbert
See also:

See the Changes page for the details of edits (click on links to profiles other than FitzHerbert-81 to see edits to those profiles before they were merged into this one.


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Collaboration

On 15 Sep 2019 at 03:47 GMT Liz (Noland) Shifflett wrote:

Jane, b 1178, m Verdun, is probably not his daughter (first marriage was c1203).

On 12 Sep 2019 at 15:28 GMT Michael Cayley wrote:

On 26 Jan 2017 at 23:28 GMT April (Dellinger) Dauenhauer wrote:

I added two sources with commentary on why Isabel Ferrers wife of Peter (Piers) Fitz Herbert was not the daughter (corrected) of William de Braose, or the widow of David Llewellin, as is erroneously reported in several older peerage volumes.

The Vital section of Piers' biography was correct, but the errors were perpetuated in the body of the text. Rather than deleting them, since they were documented with sources, I created a new section and moved that part of the biography there with notes and sources for the correction, that Isabel was the daughter of Walkelin de Ferrers and the widow of Roger de Mortimer. That brings the profile into agreement with itself:)

I hope this meets with the approval of the profile managers. If there is anything I wrote they see that needs revision, please do so - with sources of course {smile}.

On 22 Jan 2017 at 04:07 GMT Anonymous (Holland) Carroll wrote:

Source: "Royal Ancestry" D. Richardson, 2013, Vol. II. p. 620-621.

"Peter" FitzHerbert, was an adult by 1204. He married (1st) 28 Nov. 1203 Alice FitzRobert, daughter of Robert FitzRoger, by Margaret, daughter of William de Chesney. They had two sons, Herbert, Knt., and Reynold, Knt., and one daughter, Lucy. His wife, Alice, died before 1225. He married (2nd) in or before 1225 Isabel De Ferrers, widow of Roger de Mortimer (died 24 June 1214), and daughter of Walkelin de Ferrers. They had no issue. Peter FitzHerbert died shortly before 6 June 1235. His widow, Isabel, died shortly before 29 April 1252.

Thank you!

On 27 Aug 2016 at 23:40 GMT Liz (Noland) Shifflett wrote:

P.S. If you have any questions for me, please post to my profile page or send me a private message - if you post on this profile page, I won't see it (I'm not a manager, nor on the trusted list).

Thanks!

On 27 Aug 2016 at 23:39 GMT Liz (Noland) Shifflett wrote:

In response to a request posted in the Magna Carta project's Google Group, I've edited this profile for an "Illustrious Man" to bring it closer to the project's standards.

Ann is researching brother William to see if she can find a source.

I think Joan somehow might be related to Isabel de Braose, whose profile I detached as Peter's wife.

I selected "confident" for the relationship between Peter & his mother. Richardson calls her Lucy of Hereford, daughter of Miles of Gloucester, but the profile attached as his mother (Gloucester-49) is Lucy, daughter of Miles, and so I'm pretty sure it's right to mark the relationship confident even though I didn't research what her LNAB in WikiTree should be.

Cheers, Liz

On 3 Aug 2016 at 21:20 GMT Darlene (Athey) Athey-Hill wrote:

I've taken care of deleting those categories from the profile, Maria. Thanks.

On 3 Aug 2016 at 21:17 GMT Maria Maxwell wrote:

Folks, Can we delete Category:England and Category:Wales from this profile please. Both are high level categories and should not have personal profiles linked to them. A review of all profiles currently linked to Category:England is currently under way !!

Thanks, Maria

On 6 Oct 2015 at 14:57 GMT Darlene (Athey) Athey-Hill wrote:

FitzHerbert-96 and FitzHerbert-81 appear to represent the same person because: same person; please merge.




Piers is 26 degrees from Tanya Lowry, 20 degrees from Charles Tiffany and 10 degrees from Henry VIII of England on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.

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