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Elizabetha (Fleenor) Ehrhardt (bef. 1749)

Elizabetha Ehrhardt formerly Fleenor aka Ehrhard
Born before in Germanymap [uncertain]
Daughter of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Wife of — married 1767 [location unknown]
Died [date unknown] [location unknown]
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Profile last modified | Created 28 Jun 2017
This page has been accessed 237 times.
The Birth Date is a rough estimate. See the text for details.

Contents

Biography

The Birth Date is a rough estimate. See the text for details.

Elizabetha (Fleenor) Ehrhardt was born before 1749 in Germany.

Elizabetha married Georg Ehrhardt (<1746 - ) in 1767. Their children were:

  1. Johannes Ebrhardt (1768 - )
  2. Anna Elizabeth Ebrhardt (1770 - ).

Based on the date of birth of her first known child, this Elizabetha (___) was probably born before 1749, possibly in Germany. Her origins are disputed.

She married Georg Erhardt by 1767.

The date of her death is unknown. Some, without source, give a death date of 11 January 1825.

  • St Peters Record at Rocky Hill. This is the record from St Peter. I believe they make a TYPO on the year here. But the birth month and day are right on. Thats why I believe they are twins with one dieing in Lebanon Co. They leave right after their daughter dies and in mid winter travel to Maryland. Their other twin is babtised in Jan 25, - bertsdad118 originally shared this on 07 Feb 2015 - Photo of Elizabetha Fleenor Staub Ehrhardt contributed by Debbie Ferguson - Ancestry Sharing Link of Elisabetha and Georg Erhardt include at least:
  1. Johann, b. 22 Nov 1768, bp. 4 Jun 1769
  2. Anna Elisabetha, b. 19 Oct 1770, bp. 25 Jan 1772
  3. Georg Jacob, b. 20 Aug 1773, bp. 30 Apr 1775
  4. Magdalena, b. 1 Jan 1776, bp. 26 May 1776
  5. Heinrich, b. 15 May 1778, bp. 13 Sep 1778

Research Notes

Distinguishing Elisabetha Ehrhardt and Staub

This profile represents the Elisabetha (___) who married Georg Ehrhardt/Ehrhard. She is not the same person as the Elisabetha who married Peter Staub. The St. Peter's Rocky Hill Parish Registers, 1769-1889 (available on Ancestry.com here) show that both couples were having children and getting them baptized at the same church at the same time.

For further details, including a table summarizing the relevant parish records, see the following Free Space page: Distinguishing Elizabetha Ehrhardt and Elizabetha Staub

Disputed Origins

Many researchers identify her parents as Johannes Flinner and his wife Anna, although researchers also frequently conflate Elisabetha Ehrhard and Elisabetha Staub. The parish records do show that Johannes and Anna Flinner acted as godparents at St. Peter's Rocky Hill Lutheran Church in Frederick County, Maryland, for both couples, but others also acted as the godparents for both of them. Thus, it is unclear what if any family relationship existed between the Flinners and either Elisabetha. In the absence of further evidence establishing the nature of that relationship, the claim that Elisabetha, the wife of Georg Ehrhardt was the child of Johannes and Anna Flinner remains speculative.

For further details, including a table summarizing the relevant parish records, see the following Free Space page: Distinguishing Elizabetha Ehrhardt and Elizabetha Staub

Some of the relevant records are included here:

  • Elisabetha Staub discovered in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013 - Ancestry Sharing Link - [1]
  • Elisabetha Ehrhardt discovered in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013 - Ancestry Sharing Link - [2]
  • Elisabeth Stab discovered in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013 - Ancestry Sharing Link - [3]
  • Elisabeth Ehrhard discovered in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013 - Ancestry Sharing Link - [4]


Sources

  1. Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013: Historical Society of Pennsylvania; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Historic Pennsylvania Church and Town Records Ancestry Record 2451 #2106738033 Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013:
    Name:Elisabetha Staub
    Gender:Female
    Spouse:Peter Staub
    Child:Nicolaus Staub
  2. Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013: Historical Society of Pennsylvania; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Historic Pennsylvania Church and Town Records Ancestry Record 2451 #2106738054 Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013:
    Name:Elisabetha Ehrhardt
    Gender:Female
    Spouse:Georg Ehrhardt
    Child:Anna Elisabetha Ehrhardt
  3. Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013: Historical Society of Pennsylvania; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Historic Pennsylvania Church and Town Records Ancestry Record 2451 #2106738122 Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013:
    Name:Elisabeth Stab
    Gender:Female
    Spouse:Peter Stab
    Child:Joh Jacob Stab
  4. Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013: Historical Society of Pennsylvania; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Historic Pennsylvania Church and Town Records Ancestry Record 2451 #2106738006 Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013:
    Name:Elisabeth Ehrhard
    Gender:Female
    Spouse:Georg Ehrhard
    Child:Johann Ehrhard




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Comments: 16

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This profile needs some merge clean up. We know that Johannes Flinner and his wife Anna acted as godparents for the children of two different Elisabethas -- the one who married Georg Erhardt and the one who married Peter Staub -- and these were not the same person because they were both having children at the same time. So it is not correct to identify her as Elizabetha "Staub Ehrhardt" -- that is conflating the two Elisabethas.

Since there are now two different profiles for Elisabetha Fleenors, and we don't know which (if either) of those Elisabethas was actually the daughter of Johannes Flinner and his wife Anna-- I suggest that (1) we make one of these profiles the Elisabetha who married George Erhardt & the other the Elisabetha who married Peter Staub; and (2) we detach the parents for both of them, and add a Research Note explaining about the baptismal records that suggest one or the other might have been the daughter of those parents. I think both Elisabethas should have a LNAB of "Unknown"

posted by Scott McClain
As just posted on Fleenor-411, we don't really know whether either or both Elisabethas were actually the daughter of Johannes and Anna Flinner, but we do know that they are two different people, one who married Georg Erhardt & the other who married Peter Staub. Based on that, since the other Elisabetha (Fleenor-411) is currently attached as the mother of Staub children, and this one (Fleenor-165) is currently attached as the mother of Ehrhardt children, I suggest that we make that other Elisabetha (Fleenor-411) the profile for the Elisabetha who married Peter Staub, and this Elisabetha (Fleenor-165) the profile for the Elisabetha who married Georg Ehrhardt. We can leave them both as (uncertain) children of Johannes & Anna Flinner for now, and just include a Research Note explaining the issue. If everyone agrees with that approach, I can take a first crack at doing it. Please weigh in if anyone objects.
posted by Scott McClain
Doing the Relationship finder there is one so far that has DNA Confirmation we could start there and see how far we get?

Brenda and Michael are 6th cousins Brenda (Fleenor) Haynie and Michael McClain are both descendants of Johannes Flinner (abt.1720-aft.1789).

1. Brenda is the daughter of Walter Fleenor [unknown confidence] 2. Walter is the son of Robert Dee Fleenor (1876-1939) [unknown confidence] 3. Robert is the son of Robert Lee Fleenor (1848-1918) [unknown confidence] 4. Robert is the son of John Fleenor (1823-) [unknown confidence] 5. John is the son of Isaac Fleenor Sr (1790-1869) [unknown confidence] 6. Isaac is the son of Nicholas Fleenor (abt.1746-abt.1812) [unknown confidence] 7. Nicholas is the son of Johannes Flinner (abt.1720-aft.1789) [confident] This makes Johannes the fifth great grandfather of Brenda.

1. Michael is the son of Ruby Mae (McHenry) McClain (1911-2002) DNA confirmed 2. Ruby is the daughter of Minnie Ann (Hubbard) McHenry (1872-1937) DNA confirmed 3. Minnie is the daughter of Martin Hubbard (1840-1920) DNA confirmed 4. Martin is the son of Ary (Fleener) Hubbard (1820-1856) [confident] 5. Ary is the daughter of Samuel Fleener (1780-1854) [confident] 6. Samuel is the son of Jacob Fleenor (abt.1753-aft.1808) [confident] 7. Jacob is the son of Johannes Flinner (abt.1720-aft.1789) [confident] This makes Johannes the fifth great grandfather of Michael.

posted by [Living Johnson]
Well, I've done some digging based on this suggestion and unfortunately I don't think the DNA evidence is going to help. Of the DNA kits attached to this profile, Michael (who's my dad) is a descendant of Johannes' son Jacob; Brenda is a descendant of Nicholas; and Patricia & Michelle are both descendants of Michael. At this distance (7+ generations), autosomal DNA matches are hit or miss, but there is a 7.5 cm between Michelle and my Uncle Mark on CHR 15 -- with further work, that might ultimately lead to a triangulation with a third kit on the same segment which could confirm the relationships of Jacob and Michael to Johannes. However, for DNA to help, we'd need to have a kit from a proven descendant of Elisabetha, and then triangulate that against the kits of at least two descendants Johannes from two of his other children. So far, we don't have any kits from any proven descendant of either Elisabetha.

In looking at AncestryDNA ThruLines matches for my father Michael and his brother Mark, I am getting many DNA matches to claimed descendants of Johannes' sons Jacob, Adam, Nicholas, Casper & Michael - but none to any Elisabetha.

Until any further evidence comes to light, I think we need to detach the Elisabethas and include Research Notes on their profiles noting the baptismal records but stating that their relationship to Johannes and Anna Flinner remain uncertain.

posted by Scott McClain
edited by Scott McClain
I just realized there are more kits attached to Johannes, but went thru those and none are claimed descendants of either Elisabetha either. One tree is private - the tree for Linda Crouch -- so I will send her a message and see if she is a descendant of Elisabetha.
posted by Scott McClain
Flinner Fleenor Fleiner-1 and Fleenor-165 appear to represent the same person because: Found this duplicate while adding more family. There are many spelling variations for Fleenor, we use Fleenor based on tombstone spellings.

The dates, locations, and relationships are the same.

posted by [Living Johnson]
Flinner Fleenor Fleiner-1 and Fleenor-165 do not represent the same person because: Peter Staub and Georg Erhardt were married to two separate individuals, both named Elisabetha Fleenor who were most likely cousins. Dates for the two women have been interchanged numerous times but Rocky Ridge church birth records show a birth for Staub and one for Erhardt within months of each other making it impossible for one woman to have birthed both babies.
posted by Jeanie (Houston) Watts
Flinner Fleenor Fleiner-1 and Fleenor-165 appear to represent the same person because: Found this duplicate while adding more family. There are many spelling variations for Fleenor, we use Fleenor based on tombstone spellings.

The dates, locations, and relationships are the same.

posted by [Living Johnson]
Flinner Fleenor Fleiner-1 and Fleenor-165 appear to represent the same person because: Found this duplicate while adding more family. There are many spelling variations for Fleenor, we use Fleenor based on tombstone spellings.

The dates, locations, and relationships are the same.

posted by [Living Johnson]
Elisabetha - daughter of Johannes and Anna is not the wife of Peter Staub. There were two Fleenor families, likely brothers or cousins who settled in the same area at the same time. Both had daughters named Elisabetha. Unfortunately the names of the second family are unknown. If you review the Rocky Ridge records of the birth of children for Elisabetha and Peter as well as those for the other Elisabetha and Georg you can see the dates make it impossible for the same woman to have birthed the children. Peter is my maternal 5x great grandfather and I happen to live in Frederick County. I have visited the churches and cemeteries for the family and have conducted extensive research as has my uncle regarding this line. Peter and Elisabetha had 4 children-all sons.

These are the notes I have made previously- Elizabetha - most likely Fleenor/Flinner There were two Flinner/Fleenor families who emigrated to the new country at the same time, possibly even on the same ship. According to the historian for the Fleenor family the two families were headed by two brothers. Both had daughters named Elisabeth/Elisabetha/Elizabeth/Elizabetha. The two cousins married only once each. There are countless trees that indicate Peter's wife in fact married Hans Georg Eberhardt at some point and had children with him. This is 100% inaccurate and has been disproven with church records and through extensive research by the Fleenor family. "Our" Elizabetha's burial location has not been located at this time. It is entirely possible that she is attached to the wrong set of parents.

    • Check the dates of birth, baptism and marriages for both families and this will clarify why it isn't possible for both Elisabetha's to be the same person married twice but rather two women married on
posted by Jeanie (Houston) Watts
What is the basis for attaching Hans Ebrhardt as a spouse?
posted by Scott McClain
Second husband

Elisabetha Staub Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013

posted by [Living Johnson]
Got it, I had not seen that first name Hans before but now I understand. However, there appear to be two different Elisabethas at Peter Rocky Hill Lutheran Church in Frederick County, Maryland -- one married Georg Erhardt & the other married Peter Stab/Staub. They are not the same person because the St. Peter's Rocky Hill Parish Registers, 1769-1889 (available on Ancestry.com here show that both couples were having children and getting them baptized at the same church at the same time. They are both connected to Johannes & Anna Flinner somehow because Johannes and Anna acted as godchildren for some of the children of both couples, but it's possible that one or the other (or even both) were just family friends rather than daughter and son-in-law of Johannes & Anna Flinner. I have created a spreadsheet that shows the overlapping baptism patterns and am happy to send you a copy if you want to review it (just private message me and I will email it to you).
posted by Scott McClain
Flinner-91 and Fleenor-165 appear to represent the same person because: There is no evidence that Johannes Flinner/Fleenor/Fleener & his wife Anna had more than one daughter named Elisabetha so these profiles appear to be duplicates. The only cited evidence of a daughter Elisabetha are the church records cited in Fleenor-165.

Flinner, Fleenor, and Fleener are all common spellings of this last name at birth (LNAB)

posted by Scott McClain
The profile for George Springer says he was born in 1763 so he obviously could not have married Elisabeth Flinner in 1763. I plan to detach that relationship.
posted on Flinner-91 (merged) by Scott McClain
It is unclear what this source is referring to. What is the basis for the claim that she is the daughter of Johannes and Anna Flinner?
posted on Flinner-91 (merged) by Scott McClain

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