John Gilbert (abt. 1580 - abt. 1657)

Hi. This is a book I acquired. I believe it was written by someone doing family research/documentation. I'm going to post a few pages from it.

Hi All,

My name's Tanna Hiser. I'm a Gilbert descendant. I have a handwritten book titled Gilbert Genealogy. It's 110 pages all hand-written from the 1700's that has a very detailed accounting of the family lineage. There appears to be some confusion concerning Jane Rossiter's relationship to Hugh Rossiter. According to this book, Jane was NOT married to Hugh, but she was his daughter. Contact me [email address removed] if you'd like to see a copy of the pages concerning Jane or any other Gilberts from Taunton.

[continuation and ending comments of earlier post, which was restricted by length]

Children by first wife:

?. Twins MARY and JOAN, bapt. 4 Aug. 1603, Bridgwater; buried there 5 and 9 Aug. Parentage not stated, but they may have been daughters of John and Mary, born prematurely. ?. MARY, bapt. 19 Aug. 1604, Bridgwater. Parentage not stated; if a daughter of John, she probably died young, as she could hardly have been the Mary listed below. Children by second wife:

?. ELIZABETH. The will of Emma Escott of Bridgwater, widow, dated 10 Nov. 1632, mentions “Elizabeth daughter of Mr. John Gilbert” (Somerset Wills, 2nd series, p. 96). Nothing further is known of her. i. THOMAS, b. probably about 1612, perhaps in Trull, Somerset; d. about 1676, England. ii. JOHN, b. about 1614, and probably the “Joan” bapt. 19 Aug. 1614, Bridgwater; prob. also the John who d. there 10 Feb. 1691. Children by third wife:

iii. MARY. Mentioned in John’s will as Mary Norcross. Her husband was probably Rev. Nathaniel Norcross, bapt. in 1619 in London; in America 1638 to about 1649-50; d. 10 Aug. 1662, London. If this identification is _______________

• Colket, idem.

• • Boston Record Commissioners, Fourth Report, pp. 14-15.

[page 237]

correct, Mary was probably born in the early 1620’s and married in the early 1640’s.

iv. GILES, b. perhaps about 1627 (apparently under military age of 16 in 1643); d. 8 Jan. 1717-18, Rehoboth, Mass. v. JOSEPH, b. perhaps about 1629; migrated from Taunton to North Carolina. This paper is intended to be primarily factual, but I should like to end it on a note of conjecture regarding two Gilbert questions that still await an answer. One of these has already been implied. Now that we know who Winifred was, what are we to do about her granddaughter, Elizabeth Peaslee?

The other relates to Jane Rossiter, who married John’s oldest son Thomas in Taunton on 23 March 1639-40. The ancient statement that she was a daughter of Hugh Rossiter has been shown by Colket to be baseless. The most probable alternative is that she was Hugh’s widow.* If so, whose daughter was she?

I think that both birds can be killed with one stone. My evidence so far is circumstantial, but it is still coming in, and it makes at least a very plausible story. I hope to present it eventually, either in another paper in this journal or in the “John Gilbert Genealogy”, of which I am at present a co-compiler. Meanwhile I should like to stake my claim to the “discovery”, and invite rebuttal.

I believe that Jane Rossiter was the widow of Hugh, and that Hugh died in 1638 or 1639, leaving her with an infant daughter Elizabeth. She was also Hugh’s first cousin. She was the daughter of Winifred Gilbert, and the stepdaughter of John Gilbert. She was stepsister of her second husband, Thomas Gilbert. Her maiden name was Joan Combe.

As for Elizabeth of the illegible surname, it should be pointed out that the illegibility must be blamed on the clerk who at an uncertain date transcribed the will into the Plymouth records. The will itself has perished. Instead of burdening Winifred with an unaccountable Pester relative (Pester is fully as logical a reading as Peaslee**) can we not assume that the clerk slipped, and that the word written by John was something like Roseter or Rocester? If so, the conjecture is just about set up. Winifred was a Rossiter herself, but the only way she could have had a Rossiter grandchild would be by marrying a daughter to a Rossiter. We have an available daughter in Joan (Jane is a mere variant), and an available Rossiter in Hugh. What more do we need?

What became of young Elizabeth? I think I know that, too. She makes one more brief appearance, in the Thomas Gilbert inventory.*** She is referred to as “the daughter of Mr. Thomas Gilbert”,

_______________

• Colket, idem.

• • Plym. Col. Records, Wills, vol. 2, pp. 46-7. See also the printed version in The Mayflower Descendant, vol. 14, 1912, p. 114, which gives it as Pester.

• • • Plym. Col. Records, Wills, vol. 3, pp. 78-9.

[page 238]

and perhaps she was, by adoption. Anyway, she did not share in the estate. She had married Thomas Starr, Jr. and died before 1677.

I am still new at this site, please pardon me if what I post does not contribute much, or is redundant.

I believe the following would be appropriate info to include in "comments," it adds depth to the discussion

Source: Geoffrey Gilbert, “The Wives of John Gilbert of Dorchester, Mass.,” New England Historical and Genealogical Register 61[1957]. [page 234]

John Gilbert of Bridgwater, Somerset, one of the original purchasers of Taunton, Mass., brought with him to Dorchester, in or about 1635, a wife Winifred, four sons, and a daughter. He was born in 1580, and in January 1602-3 he married Mary Street, both in Bridgwater. Mary has been considered the mother of the two older sons, Thomas and John, Jr., who were “well grown youths” in 1636. The two younger sons, Giles and Joseph, and probably the daughter Mary, have been assigned more or less doubtfully to Winifred. As to the identity of Winifred, the only clue has been a clause in John’s will referring to his wife’s grandchild Elizabeth —-; the surname has been variously deciphered as Peaslee, Peslee, Peter, and Pester. This clause has been the basis for a guess that Peaslee or a variant was the name of Winifred’s first husband, and she has appeared in some genealogies as “widow Peaslee”, though obviously this would only be true if Elizabeth were the child of a son of Winifred, not of a daughter.

Somewhat later, restudies of the Bridgwater records suggested that there might be still another wife. A daughter Joan was born in 1614 to John and Alice Gilbert and Alice, wife of John Gilbert, died in 1618. It was not considered certain that these records related to John, the immigrant, but on the other hand evidence was uncovered that a John Gilbert, who later became mayor of Bridgwater, was born about 1614, and there is reason to suppose that the Joan of the 1614 baptism is really this John. If so, he is in all likelihood the second son of John, the immigrant, who is known to have returned permanently to England in 1645, after about ten years in America.

In the late 1920’s, [the author's] my father, Philip H. Gilbert, engaged an English genealogist, Mr. H. Tapley-Soper, of Exeter, to try to uncover further

[page 235]

details about John Gilbert, Sr., and his antecedents. The Chancery Reports, neglected by earlier workers, yielded several pieces of information about John and his father Giles. One in particular, a suit brought against John in 1610 by one Valentine Babb, clears up the question of the second wife. It shows that John married Alice Hopkins, daughter of Thomas Hopkins of Bristol, in September 1606; a reference to Nicholas Street as John’s father-in-law removes all doubt as to his identity. In all probability a Mary Gilbert who was buried in Bridgwater in October 1605 was John’s first wife, and beyond any doubt the Alice who died in 1618 was the second. Alice must certainly have been the mother of the sons Thomas and John, Jr.

The Babb document reads in part as follows:

Chancery Proceedings C.2 James I, B.26-7.

26 April 1610. Complaint of Valentine Babb of Trull, co. Somerset, yeoman, that whereas one John Gilbert of Trull, gent., by virtue of the last will of Giles Gilbert his father deceased ….. was possessed of a lease ….. called Peasehay containing 80ac in Baudripp, co. Somerset ….. said John Gilbert about 29 Nov. last in consideration of £600 ….. did sell to orator said premises ….. Since then there hath been a paper book made embodying the contract, which paper book was made by one Nicholas Street, gent., fatherinlaw to Gilbert ….. Gilbert refused to ….. perform the covenants of the agreement.

15 June 1610. Answer to John Gilbert, gent. He ….. made an agreement with the complainant ….. but 3 years before the time of the agreement he, in consideration of a marriage then shortly after to be had between him & Alice his now wife, which was then very shortly after solemnized, by his writing indented between him & Thomas Hoptkins & William Hoptkins of city of Bristol, merchants, & Richard Winter, gent. of same city dated 1 Sept. 4 Jas.I.1606 conveyed his interest in the premises to them for the jointure of Alice now his wife being daughter of said Thomas Hoptkins, & at the time of the agreement he thought he would procure and get the good liking of Alice & her trustee to relinquish the same assurance ….. but cannot succeed ….. and as this was the case Gilbert was unable to sign the agreement.

Mr. Tapley-Soper also found two other documents which, taken together, definitely establish the identity of the third wife, Winifred. The first is the will of Joseph Combe of Combe St. Nicholas, Somerset, proved in April 1620. It mentions among others wife Winifred, daughter Joan, and “brother” Edward Rossiter. It has been printed in two collections of Somerset wills, and reprinted in an important article by Colket.*

The other document is as follows:

Feet of Fines, Somerset, Easter, 11 Charles I. 1635.

“Nicholas Rossiter gent. querent & John Gilbert gent. & Winifred his wife deforciant of a moiety of 15 ac of land & 8 ac of meadow in Combe St. Nicholas which John & Winifred granted to Nicholas to hold for life of Winifred & of Joan Combe daughter of Winifred & for the life of the longer liver of them”.

This suit establishes the identity of Winifred Gilbert with widow

_______________

• Colket, Meredith B., Jr.; “Edward Rossiter, his Family, and Notes on his English Connections”, American Genealogist, vol. 13, 1937, pp. 145-51.

[page 236]

Winifred Combe, but it does considerably more. It is no doubt a fictitious suit, and merely indicates that John and Winifred were selling their land to Nicholas Rossiter. Nicholas, in the Colket list, was a son of Edward, probably the oldest. He is thought to have been in America from about 1630 to 1635.* The transaction goes far to reinforce the conclusion that when Joseph Combe referred to Edward Rossiter as “brother” he meant brother-in-law, and that Edward was a brother of Winifred. It also gives an approximate date for the Gilbert departure for America; in spite of various traditions that include them in the passenger list of the Mary and John, I know of no evidence of their presence earlier than January 1635-6.** It gives us still another piece of information, to which I shall revert below; it shows that in 1635 Joan Combe was a still unmarried member of the Gilbert family.

Incorporating the above facts, we get the following outline for John Gilbert of Dorchester:

JOHN GILBERT, son of Giles and Joan (Pearce) Gilbert, was baptized 30 Aug. 1580 in Bridgwater, Somerset; died 1657 in Taunton, Mass. (will signed 6 April 1656, proved 3 June 1657). He married (1), 17 Jan. 1602-3, in Bridgwater, MARY STREET, bapt. 22 March 1578-9 in Taunton, Somerset; probably she who was buried 25 Oct. 1605, in Bridgwater; daughter of Nicholas Street. He married (2), in September 1606, perhaps in Bristol, ALICE HOPKINS, buried 25 April 1618 in Bridgwater; daughter of Thomas Hopkins of Bristol. He married (3), in or after 1620, WINIFRED (ROSSITER) COMBE, widow of Joseph Combe of Combe St. Nicholas, Somerset, and sister of Edward Rossiter of that place.

Children by first wife:

?. Twins MARY and JOAN, bapt. 4 Aug. 1603, Bridgwater; buried there 5 and 9 Aug. Parentage not stated, but they may have been daughters of John and Mary, born prematurely. ?. MARY, bapt. 19 Aug. 1604, Bridgwater. Parentage not stated; if a daughter of John, she probably died young, as she could hardly have been the Mary listed below. Children by second wife:

?. ELIZABETH. The will of Emma Escott of Bridgwater, widow, dated 10 Nov. 1632, mentions “Elizabeth daughter of Mr. John Gilbert” (Somerset Wills, 2nd series, p. 96).

wife's name may have been, Winnifred Peaslee.

Taken directly from the booklet, "The 'Mary and John'", A story of the founding of Dorchester, Massachusetts, 1630 by Maude Pinney Kuhns, published by Charles E. Tuttle Company, Rutland, Vermont:

"John Gilbert was born about 1580. (In 1643 he was over sixty years of age and not subject to military duty). He was the son of Giles Gilbert (d. June 17, 1595) of Dunweare Parish of Bridgwater, Somersetshire, England, who married in St. Mary's Church, Aug. 10, 1571, Joan Pearce (d. Apr. 18, 1597). Both are buried in St. Mary's churchyard.

Susanna Gilbert, sister of John, was baptised Dec. 9, 1584; married Jan. 18, 1602, Nicholas, son of Nicholas and Mary Street, and was the mother of Rev. Nicholas Street, who came to New England. Susanna died at the birth of her son, and was buried Feb. 22, 1603.

John Gilbert married (1) Jan. 17, 1602, in St. Mary's Church, Mary, daughter of Nicholas and Mary Street, baptised Mar. 22, 1578, in Taunton, England. She died before 1630, as when John Gilbert came to America in 1630, he had with him his second wife, widow Winnifred Peaslee. The first wife was probably the mother of Thomas and John Gilbert, who are described by Savage, as "well grown youths." She may also have been the mother of Elizabeth, who is mentioned Nov. 16, 1632, in the will of Emma Escott of Bridgwater, England, but is not mentioned in the will of John Gilbert.

In 1637, John Gilbert and his two sons were members of an incorporated body of forty who purchased of Sachem Massasoit about 162 acres of land lying west of Plymouth, which was named Taunton. Here the family established itself, and here descendants were to be found for over 140 years. John Gilbert was made freeman of Taunton, Dec. 4, 1638, and was constable in 1640. In 1641 he received a grant of land from the town, with others, "for their great charges in attending courts, laying out lands and other occasions for the town."

http://www.otal.umd.edu/~walt/gen/htmfile/10618.htm

THE WILL OF JOHN GILBERT, SR. [of Taunton] MD 14:2; Plymouth Colony Wills & Inventories [Provided by Robert Davenport, Sep. 2002.]

The will of "Mr John Gilbert senir" was probated at Plymouth 3 June, 1657, on the testimony of "Mr Nicholas Street And Captaine Willam Pole"

The will of "John Gilbert of Pondsbrooke in Taunton" was written "the tenth Day of May in the yeare .... one thousand six hundred fifty and foure" and ordered my body to bee buried heer by my house att Pondsbrooke upon the hill neare the pine tree seven or eight foot Deep att the least;"

Bequests were made as follows:

"unto my son Gyles my farme att Pondsbrooke Containeing one hundred acres with with the house and houses and Commons therto belonging" also "ten acres of the meadow lying in Scadingsmore" also "one yoake of my 2cond bigest oxen Named Colliar and Browne" also "two Cowes named Cherry and Colly" also "my two steers Named Summer and winter" also "one feather bed one bolster two pillowes my green rugg a paire of blankett and a paire of my best sheets" also "my best brasse pot or Crocke my best brasse pan one pewter platter and one pewter porrenger one pewter Chamberpott" also "my best bedsteed with the curtaines and vallence" also "my Cubbert" also "one halfe of my bookes of which hee shall make his Choise" also "two Chists or trunkes of which hee shall make his Choise" also "my best suite of apparrell;"

"unto my son Josepth all that my great lott att Pondsbrooke lying on the otherside of the brooke next the towne of Taunton aforsaid Containing thirty acres with the Devisions not yet layed out adjoyning therto" also "five acres of meadow in Scadings more lying or to bee layed out together att the further end of the fifteen acres in Scadingsmore aforsaid to be layed out att the Descretion of the overseers of this my last will;" also "my two bigest steers named Duke and buttler" also "my Cow called Bunne and one heifer Called gentle and my two steer yearlings" also "one feather bed one bolster one pillow one paire of blanketts and one paire of sheets with one bedsteed;" also "my 2cond best brasse pott or Crocke my 2cond best brasse pan one pewter platter and one pewter porrenger & one pewter Chamberpott" also "the other halfe of my bookes" also "one Chest or trunke;" also "my 2cond best suite of apparell;"

To "my son Thomas my best sowe hee to make his Choise"

To "my son John one shilling to bee Delivered in silver"

"unto my wives grandchild Elizabeth Pester my blacke-sowe and that one of her piggs which already is given her and shee hath made Choise of"

"I give ten bushells of Indian Corn unto such as have most need of corn in the Towne to bee Desposed by the Descretion of the two Deacons of the Church of Taunton;"

To "my Daughter Mary Norcrosse my great ffurnace or brewing kettle if shee bee liveing or otherwise unto her Daughter Mary the furnace to bee sold by my overseers and the vallue to bee Imployed to Increase somthinge untill the Child bee of Age;"

"if either of my said sonnes Gyles or Josepth Die before they or either of them are married that then all the lands goods or whatsoever soe given to either shall Decend bee and remaine unto the Surviveer"

"I give all my goods unbequeathed unto my Wife Winnefred and my will is that shee shall have the use and profitt of the one moyety or halfe of the farme with my son Gyles During her life if she remaine in Widdowhood or will live upon it; And Doe make and appoint her my exequitrix .... And Doe Constitute and appoint my welbeloved frinds in Christ Nicolas Street and Richard Williams overseers of this my last Will and Testament and Doe give unto each of them foure bushells of wheat for and Towards theire paines and Christian Care they shall use in this behalfe"

"Upon the fift Day of Aprill 1656 the said Testator John Gilbert Desired this his last Will to bee Attested unto by Witnesses after hee had caused it to bee read before his wife and sonnes and they expressed their good liking of It This wee whose names are heerunder written Doe Testify Nicolas Street Willam Pole"

The inventory of the estate of "Mr John Gilbert" taken by Richard Williams, Walter Deane and James Wyate, was presented at the court held 3 June, 1657, on the oath of "mis Wennefred Gilbert". Joseph Hackett and John Bryant were indebted to the estate

Gilberd-1 and Gilbert-615 appear to represent the same person because: same person

I can't remember for sure, but I know the part that son Thomas wife Jane Rossiter as the daughter of Hugh Rossiter is incorrect. She was shown to be daughter of Edward Rossiter. This page is on several profiles, including John, son Thomas, Jane Rossiter etc.

Chris Hoyt, regarding your message below. I can't tell if the disproven information was removed or not. I think it should be, if it's the one that's still attached.

Should we remove the image on this page from an old text that contains information that has been disproven?

Please add Winifred as last wife of Gilbert-615. She was executrix of his will as already noted here. Winifred is Rossiter-17. Widow of Joseph Combe. 3rd wife of John Gilbert.

"Genealogical and Personal Memoirs Relating to the Families of the State of Massachusetts", 1910. Volume IV. Pages 2093-2095. Gilbert extract. by William Richard Cutter, Historian, New England Historic-Genealogical Society.

https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/46813182 (pdf) "John Gilbert, immigrant ancestor, was a resident of Dorchester, Massachusetts, as early as 1636...brought with him 'two well grown youths,' his sons Thomas and John. He and his two sons were among the first purchasers of Taunton and removed there." This extract record lists John and many of his descendants, particularly through the line of his son Thomas.

Needing additional confirmation/help.

I believe that the 1st wife of John Gilbert is Mary Street-245. Am I correct?

See: 1) Parentage of Rev. Nicholas Street.[1]

2) The Wives of John Gilbert of Dorchester. [2]

3. Great Migration [3]

I've completed what I can do on the biography of John Gilbert.

You will notice discrepancies with the data section:

1) I found no source that indicates a wife named Jane Unknown.

Unless sources can be found that profile will need to be detached with a note left in the bio.

2) Anderson does not identify the mother of John Gilbert. She will need to be detached unless a source more current than Anderson is found that identifies her as his mother.

If there are no objections I will change John Gilbert's birth to August 30, 1580 and his death to before June 3, 1657.

I will add his 1st and 3rd wives.

Hello, I see that John Gilbert has a featured article in Anderson's "Great Migration."

I added the PGM project box, since he is eligible.

I will write a biography based on Anderson and will attempt to included all information that is presently on this profile, if it is based on scholarly sources and does not conflict with Anderson.

Gilbert-1318 and Gilbert-615 appear to represent the same person because: Brothers with same parents, same name, and same spouse. Birth date on the one matches the other (the less specific one simply states "before..." which does not prevent them being the same.) There does seem to be a conflict in death dates, where the incorrect death date is listed for one.

Gilbert-2131 and Gilbert-615 appear to represent the same person because: Same parents, birth, death. Issue of spouses would need to be resolved.