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Edward Gilman (bef. 1557 - bef. 1621)

Edward Gilman aka Gyllman
Born before in Caston, Norfolk, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
[spouse(s) unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died before at about age 64 in Caston, Norfolk, Englandmap [uncertain]
Profile last modified | Created 31 May 2009
This page has been accessed 8,610 times.
U.S. President Direct Ancestor
Edward Gilman was a direct ancestor of a US President.
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Contents

Relationship to Abraham Lincoln

We know that Bridget's father was Edward, but, we have no proof that it was this Edward. I have marked Bridget Gilman's profile in that manner. Lee-5956 19:17, 18 December 2015 (EST) US Presidents Project Lead

Disputed Associations

No historical support has been found to suggest that this Edward Gilman was the grandson of Edward Gilman (abt.1500-1525) and his wife, Unknown (Unknown) Gilman (1504-).

Biography

Edward Gilman was baptized Caston, Norfolk, England, of Hingham, 20 April 1557, [1] [2][3]
[1557] Edward Gyllman ye sonn of Edward gyllman was baptised ye xxth day of Aprill A[nn]o predicto

He was the son of Edward and Rose (Rysse) Gilman of Caston,[2] See Research Notes.

A record of his death has not been proven. Walter Goodwin Davis (1963) thought he might have been (so not proven) the Edward Gilman buried Caston, 15 May 1621. This seems likely the burial record indexed by FindMyPast as 15 May 1619.[4] See Research Notes.

He married by about 1581 (birth of child, 1582), but his wife's name has been lost from official records.[2][5]

Children of Edward Gilman and his wife, _____.[6][7][2]

  1. [Bridget] Gilman, born about 1582; married Edward Lincoln of Hingham. See Research Notes.
  2. Edward Gilman (known as “the Emigrant"), born about 1587 (he was age 50 in 1637);[8] married Mary Clark:
  3. Robert Gilman son of Edward Gylmmynne of Hingham, married (1) in Hingham, May 14, 1611, Rose Hawes; married (2) widow, Mary Bruen. See Research Notes
  4. John Gilman, married Ann Guerney:
  5. Mary Gilman, born 1599, married Nicholas Jacob:
  6. Margaret Gilman, baptized Hingham, Norfolk, 1 August 1602.
  7. Sarah Gilman, baptized Hingham, 4 October or December 1603.[9]

Several of Edward's descendants emigrated from England to America.

Research Notes

See also,

Ancestry. According to Walter Goodwin Davis (1963), the earliest proven ancestry for this line begins with Edward Gilman (abt.1525-bef.1573). See Walter Goodwin Davis, The ancestry of Abel Lunt, 1769-1806, of Newbury, Massachusetts (Portland, Me. : Anthoensen Press, 1963), 153-160 (Gilman, of Exeter) at 153; digital images, Hathi Trust.

Evidence for his parents as Edward and Rose (instead of Robert) was entered by BKM):

Edward Gilman was the father of Edward the Emigrant (7), instead of Robert, his brother, as stated in the records of Samuel Hayhoe Le Neve Gilman. The late Charles E. Banks, Genealogist, discovered a deposition made by Edward the Emigrant in 1637 at the age of 50, shortly before he left England, referring to his father as Edward. An incomplete list of children is furnished by Mr. Torrey, Genealogist.[10]

Birth. A prior version of this profile reported he was born Caston, Norfolk, 22 June 1555 and baptized there 20 April 1557. Evidence regarding his baptism is found as "'England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975,' database (IGI, Index only), FamilySearch"; "'England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975'; FindMyPast Transcription (subscription required ...); Edward Gyllman ..."). No references was provided on WikiTree for the birth, but this date is found elsewhere in Internet family files (rdavis, Bobbi Stockton) and on FamilySearch FamilyTree profile (PID KNSK-BVJ), only sometimes referring to entries in a family bible, for which no historical reference seen.[citation needed] As to published accounts, only baptismal dates are reported in the record of Edward and Rose's children,

  • Gilman (1864): Writes that the 1573 will of Edward Gilman is evidence that Edward left four sons and five daughters, naming only three. Fails to include son Edward in those named, but makes no claim regarding family bible records for those who were named
  • Ames (1950). Includes reprint of Torrey's published/corrected account, saying only that Edward was born in Caston, and baptized 20 April 1557; no mention of family bible records.
  • Davis (1963): "Edward^2 Gilman ... was baptized in Caston ... April 6, 1557 ..." No mention of family bible records.

Death. Without references, a prior version of this profile reported his death in the data field as in Caston, "6 March 1613," and in the narrative as "Edward died in 1613 in Hingham, England, where he had moved earlier with his brother Robert.

This date bears an uncanny similarity to "6 March 1631/2," otherwise the burial date for his brother, Robert Gilman, with whom Edward's identity had once been confused/conflated.

Robert's burial record is found as (1) Norfolk Record Office; Reference: PD 158/1, FindMyPast Image - FindMyPast Transcription (accessed 26 January 2022); (2) "Norfolk, England, Church of England Baptism, Marriages, and Burials, 1535-1812," Norfolk > Caston > 1539-1720, Ancestry Sharing Link - Ancestry Image ...

Walter Goodwin Davis (1963) thought he might have been (so not proven) the Edward Gilman buried Caston, 15 May 1621.

Daughter Bridget. Baptism of Thomas Lincoln at Hardringham 7 November 1603 calls the parents Edward and Bridget. Presuming she was the mother of this Thomas, then her name is Bridget. See Thomas Lyncolne 7 November 1603 baptism, "England, Norfolk, Parish Registers (County Record Office), 1510-1997," Record Office, Norwich.; images, FamilySearch, FHL Digital Collection, DGS 004033226, image 18 of 1975 (or England, Norfolk, Parish ...Record Office), 1510-1997, Hardingham, Baptisms, Marriages, Burials, 13 of 133). "15 [1603] Thomas filius Edwardi Lyncolne et Birgittae uxoris eius Batpiz: --- septimo die Novembris" ("15" being an entry number).

Son Robert. This son is included in the list of children published by Walter Goodwin Davis.

No evidence Gary Boyd Roberts named a wife. A prior version of this profile reported, "Evidence for the wife's name of Mary Hawes is Gary Boyd Robert's Notable Kin. Whether he cites a source I do not yet know. There seems to be no other solid evidence for the name."

Research suggests this is not the case. WikiTree collaborators have reviewed published accounts about Edward Gilman in 1994, 1995 and 2009. In all of these accounts, his wife was "_____." See the answer posted on G2G, 2022, here, and the answer and comment posted there, here and here.

Work by Charles Edward Banks. Inline citation to Clarence Almon Torrey, "English Origin of Edward^1 Gilman" (TAG 11:127) includes the statement, "Citing work by Charles Edward Banks, so there is an earlier reference." Separately there are two items attributed to Banks.

  • Charles Edward Banks, "The Emigrant Ancestor and Ancestress of Abraham Lincoln," New York Genealogical and Biographical Record 60 (1929):115-117 at 116; digital images via FamilySearch Catalog, DGS 8131626, images 1131-1132 of 1355.
  • Reference to further research by Banks about the deposition of "the younger Edward, made in 1637, when ... he was fifty years of age." See Edward in Clarence Almon Torrey, "English Origin of Edward^1 Gilman" in The American Genealogist, 11 (1934):137-138, at 137, 137n; digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors. The footnote reports, "Col. Banks' reference for Edward Gilman's deposition is Court of Requests, Bundle 27, pt. 2, Charles I." Also includes "For permission to use this deposition and also Gilman items from Caston and Hingham parish records, from the manuscript of Col. Banks, acknowledgement is made to his daughter, Mrs. Alfred Brinkler."

Possible useful archives.

  • The Clarence Almon Torrey archives are held by NEHGS, Boston, cited by Gary Boyd Roberts as "C. A. Torrey's mss. collection, SG TOR 5 (147)."
  • The Charles E. Banks archives, at least in part, are held by the Library of Congress, Rare Book & Special Collections Reading Room (Special Collections).

Wife Margaret James. Edward Gilman's wife was Margaret James, daughter of Robert James, yeoman, of Hingham, Norfolk, England.

Robert's will was written on 6 March 1601/2 and proved in the Archdeaconry Court of Norfolk on 21 January 1602/3.[11] In that will, Robert clearly identifies that he has a son-in-law, Edward Gilman, and a granddaughter, Bridget Lincoln, who is the wife of Edward Lincoln. From the research and analysis of Charles Banks and Clarence Torrey, as reported in The American Genealogist, it is known that Bridget Lincoln's father was Edward Gilman.[2] Thus Edward Gilman, father of Bridget, was married to a daughter of Robert James.

A full transcript of his will is available, but the relevant extracts are:[11]

  • I give and bequeath unto Bridget Lyncolne the wife of Edward Lyncolne, my grandchild, twenty shillings of lawful money of England to be paid unto her within three months next after my decease
  • ... except all such debts as Edward Gylmine my son in law doth owe me by bond or without
  • These being witnesses: Edward Gyllmyne...

The first name of Edward Gilman's wife is contained in Letters of Administration granted upon the death of Leonard James in the Archdeaconry Court of Norfolk on 14 January 1608/9.[12] One of the administrators of his estate was Edward Gilman, identified as being the husband of Margaret Gilman alias James, sister of Leonard James. The full record is (translated from Latin):[12]

The fourteenth day of the month of January in the year of Our Lord, according to the computation of the Anglican Church, one thousand, six hundred and eight above-mentioned, by the authority of the Archdeacon above-mentioned, administration of all and singular the goods, issues and credits of Leonard James, clerk, late of Rockland St Peter, deceased intestate, was entrusted to Henry and Samuel James, natural and lawful brothers of the said deceased, Edward Gyllman, the husband of Margaret Gyllman alias James, natural and lawful sister of the deceased, and Robert Jenipy, natural and lawful brother of Margaret (sic) James, widow, relict of the deceased, during the minority of Robert, Benjamin, Sarah, Mary and Ann James, natural and lawful children of the said deceased, lawfully sworn

Sources

  1. Baptism: "Norfolk, England, Church of England Baptism, Marriages, and Burials, 1535-1812"
    Norfolk > Caston > 1539-1720 > image 8 of 36 Norfolk Record Office; Norwich, Norfolk, England; Norfolk Church of England Registers
    Ancestry Sharing Link - Ancestry Image (accessed 25 January 2022)
  2. 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 Clarence Almon Torrey, "English Origin of Edward^1 Gilman" in The American Genealogist, 11 (1934):137-138, at 137; and 193-194; digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors. Citing work by Charles Edward Banks, so there is an earlier reference.
  3. "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NB91-FFH : 18 September 2020), Edward Gyllman, 1557.
  4. Edward Gilman, 15 May 1619 burial, Caston, Norfolk, Norfolk Burials, Parish Burials, Norfolk Record Office PD 158/1; digital images by subscription, FindMyPast.
  5. NEHGS NEXUS: New England Across the United States, 1994, Vol. 11, p. 204.
  6. Walter Goodwin Davis, The ancestry of Abel Lunt, 1769-1806, of Newbury, Massachusetts (Portland, Me. : Anthoensen Press, 1963), 153-160 (Gilman, of Exeter) at 157-158 digital images, Hathi Trust.
  7. Massachusetts and Maine Families in the Ancestry of Walter Goodwin Davis. Vol. II. Gardner-Moses. "Gilmans of Exeter"; this was otherwise published as Walter Goodwin Davis, The ancestry of Abel Lunt, 1769-1806, of Newbury, Massachusetts (Portland, Me. : Anthoensen Press, 1963), 153-160 (Gilman, of Exeter) at 157; digital images, Hathi Trust. .
  8. Citing "Public Record Office, Court of Requests, Charles I, Bundle 27, part 2," Walter Goodwin Davis, The ancestry of Abel Lunt, 1769-1806, of Newbury, Massachusetts (Portland, Me. : Anthoensen Press, 1963), 153-160 (Gilman, of Exeter) at 158-59, 159n; digital images, Hathi Trust.
  9. Sarah Gilman 1603 baptism, Parish register transcription, Caston, Norfolk; digital images, FamilySearch, FHL Digital Collection, DGS 7763895, image 485 of 902.
  10. Constance LeNeve Gilman Ames, The Story of the Gilmans and a Gilman Genealogy (Yakima, Washington: Shields Ranier Printing Co., 1950), 36; digital images, Hathi Trust.
  11. 11.0 11.1 Court of the Archdeaconry of Norfolk, Register copy wills, v. 35 (Offwood), 1602-1604, fol. 201 recto, will of Robert JAMES of Hingham, proved 21 January 1602/3; images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ : accessed 7 May 2022) DGS no. 8045773, image 210 of 468 (can be viewed at Family History Centres and Affiliate Libraries); Norfolk Record Office. Will Transcript
  12. 12.0 12.1 Court of the Archdeaconry of Norfolk, Act books, v. 1-2 1541-1610, fol. 65 recto, letters of administration of Leonard JAMES of Rockland St Peter, granted 14 January 1608/9; images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ : accessed 7 May 2022) DGS no. 7904822, image 460 of 501; Norfolk Record Office.
See also--
  • Charles Edward Banks, "The Emigrant Ancestor and Ancestress of Abraham Lincoln," New York Genealogical and Biographical Record 60 (1929):115-117 at 116; digital images via FamilySearch Catalog, DGS 8131626, images 1131-1132 of 1355.
  • Constance LeNeve Gilman Ames, The Story of the Gilmans and a Gilman Genealogy (Yakima, Washington: Shields Ranier Printing Co., 1950), 36-37; digital images, Hathi Trust, includes sections, Clarence A. Torrey, "The Lincoln-Gilman Ancestry," and "Corrected Ancestry of Edward the Emigrant as stated by Mr. Clarence Torrey, Genealogist, Dorchester, Mass."
  • Alexander Gilman, Searches into the History of the Gillman or Gilman Family … (London, E. Stock, 1895), 141-164 (Gilmans of Norfolk); digital images, Hathi Trust].
  • Arthur Gilman, The Gilman Family … in England and America (Albany, N.Y. : J. Munsell, 1869, rpt 1969), 31 (Edward Gilman m. Rose Rysse), 65 Children of Edward Gilman and wife _____); digital images, Hathi Trust.


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Comments: 25

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I have added discussion about Edward's wife to the end of the Research Notes section. She has been identified through a will and admon as being Margaret James, daughter of Robert James of Hingham. If there are no objections, I would like to create a profile for her and attach it to her husband and children.
posted by Nic Donnelly
Fabulous research Nic. We're getting there and I think it helps identify 2 other emigres Francis and Phillip James.

Ann

posted by Ann Browning
FYI, this information (and the identity of the Jameses you mention) is in an article I submitted to the New England Historical and Genealogical Register about a year ago. It has been accepted for publication, but not yet scheduled. This represents some of the tension generated by print vs. electronic publication. IMHO, important discoveries about immigrants (i.e., discoveries that affect the ancestry of many people) are best submitted to peer-reviewed publications rather than immediately being placed online. To do the latter forestalls the former. But that's just my 2 cents.
posted by Robert Battle
Robert, thanks for letting me know. This is a very unfortunate situation. The hard work that you and others do to publish your research in peer-reviewed journals is much appreciated. Wikitree members frequently cite peer-reviewed research when developing high-quality profiles, so the last thing I would want to do is undermine this process. I appreciate your perspective and it is something I am reflecting on. Thank-you for all your work on our shared ancestors/relatives.
posted by Nic Donnelly
No harm done. :-) I don't want to undermine or deter your research (or that of others) either, by any means. You are performing a public good by putting discoveries you make here. I *would* encourage you and others to consider submitting significant discoveries, especially on ancestors of general interest (immigrants, Presidential ancestors, etc.) to journals such as the New England Historical and Genealogical Register, The American Genealogist, The Genealogist, etc. They are always interested in hearing from new contributors; and doing so also functions as a sort of clearing house if there are others who are also working on the same family.
posted by Robert Battle
If there are no objections, I plan to update the data regarding his death. Specifically, I plan to remove "about 6 Mar 1613 in Caston, Norfolk, England (uncertain)," as that date can not be verified; but for a possible transposition, it may have been disproven. In its place will add, "21 May 1621, Caston ... (uncertain), citing Davis (p. 157) and remarking that the author was unable to prove the identity of the Edward then buried, saying this date and location was "a possibility."

For the notice of the unsourced 1613 date, see the comment here.

Working with the English Project team, we have been unable to find historical support for the burial date, 6 March 1613. Given that Edward and his brother Robert were at one time conflated, but for a possible transposition error, this date could otherwise be the burial date for that brother, Robert Gilman (bef.1559-1631), Gilman-29, whose was buried 6 March 1631. See Norfolk Record Office; Reference: PD 158/1, FindMyPast Image - FindMyPast Transcription (accessed 26 January 2022), Robert Gillman burial on 6 Mar 1631 in Caston, Norfolk, England.

Edited to add: Have completed this work.

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
As it appears that only you and I are working this profile, please go ahead with any changes that you feel are necessary.
posted by Robin Lee
FYI only. I have rec'd some notes from others on the trusted list--both thankful and approving of the updates we are making. --Gene
posted by GeneJ X
Wonderful, and thanks so much for all your efforts!
posted by Robin Lee
The English Project has begun to catalog some relevant English Gilman Wills. While more have been identified, a select few of those identified have been listed on a free space page, Gilman Wills.

In the process, a question about relevant Lincoln wills came up. Do we know how many English Lincoln wills have been cataloged? --Gene

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
As the US Presidents project is only responsible for 4 generations of ancestors, we really have not done a lot of work with Lincolns in England. We only got involved in this case, as we try to protect and proven ancestry.
posted by Robin Lee
The US Presidents Project has removed the incorrect wife and mother of the children of Edward Gilman per the discussions on G2G. We have also removed the children that were unproven. If someone has sources to prove any of the data removed should be added back in, please let us know.
posted by Robin Lee
What is the historical support and analysis by which we have his death as "Caston, Norfolk, England" about 6 March 1613?

This date has an uncanny similarity to "6 March 1631/2," otherwise the burial date for his brother, Robert Gilman, with whom Edward's identity had once been confused/conflated

Walter Goodwin Davis thought he might have been (so not proven) the Edward Gilman buried Caston, 15 May 1621.

https://hdl.handle.net/2027/wu.89061963823?urlappend=%3Bseq=175%3Bownerid=13510798885647087-177

Edited to add: Have completed update regarding this research.

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
Thank you for supporting WikiTree.

What is the source for this birth as "22 Jun 1555" (as opposed to his baptism 20 April 1557)? --Gene

posted by GeneJ X
Still hopeful that someone, somewhere has a historical record to support this date of birth.

We know of several sources for his baptismal date.--Gene

Edited to add: Have completed profile update regarding this item.

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
". . . no record of [Edward's] burial. There is a possibility that he was the Edward Gillman buried in Caston on May 15, 1621, and that ___ Gilman, widow, buried in Hingham on November 28, 1639, had been his wife." Davis, W. Goodwin. (1963). The ancestry of Abel Lunt, 1769-1806, of Newbury, Massachusetts. Portland, Me.: Anthoensen Press.
This appears to be the book that some are using and it totally changes the picture as Edward is not the son of Edward and Rose,... https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=GDBMAAAAMAAJ&rdid=book-GDBMAAAAMAAJ&rdot=1
posted by Robin Lee
Any number of apparent errors were published in the reference work, Arthur Gilman, The Gilman Family … in England and America (Albany, N.Y. : J. Munsell, 1869, rpt 1969); catalog entry, Hathi Trust.

The author recognizes the marriage of Edward Gilman and Rose Ryse (p. 31), but recognizes only three sons to this man as (a) John Gilman, (b) Robert Gilman and (c) Lawrence Gilman, further claiming Edward and Rose's son Robert--married (1) Rose Hawes and (2) Mary ___--was the father of the immigrant, Edward Gilman (married Mary Clark) see p. 35.

More modern research by Charles E. Banks, Clarence Almon Torrey (a descendant) and Walter Goodwin Davis have worked to correct the earlier errors in print.

In particular, see

  • Walter Goodwin Davis, The ancestry of Abel Lunt, 1769-1806, of Newbury, Massachusetts (Portland, Me. : Anthoensen Press, 1963), 153-160 (Gilman, of Exeter) at 157; digital images, Hathi Trust.
  • Constance LeNeve Gilman Ames, The Story of the Gilmans and a Gilman Genealogy (Yakima, Washington: Shields Ranier Printing Co., 1950), 36; digital images, Hathi Trust, for sections credited to Clarence A. Torrey, "The Lincoln-Gilman Ancestry" and "Corrected Ancestry of Edward the Emigrant as stated by Mr. Clarence A. Torrey ..."
  • Clarence Almon Torrey, "English Origin of Edward^1 Gilman" in The American Genealogist, 11 (1934):137-138, at 137; digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors.

Separately, one or more WikiTree profiles make the claim that Gary Boyd Roberts reported the immigrant's mother was "Mary Hawes," but no support for that attribution has been found. See the G2G answer, here.

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
I presume no one here has been able to find Nadine Gilman's two thick books? At some point, if people are going to keep adding Mary Hawes as wife to Edward, it will be nice if they would cite a source.
posted by BK McDonald
Recent changes to this profile show Mary Hawes (who was married to Edward's brother, Robert [Gilman-29]) as Edward's wife. From everything I have read Edward's wife's last name at birth is not known. In any case it was quite a marriage lasting close to 20 years after both died,

In addition, new duplicate profiles of Robert Gilman and Mary (Hawes) Gilman's sons have been added as children of Edward Gilman.

posted by Bob Tonsmeire
profile managers would you consider changing the marriage date. If Edward was baptized in 1557, I don't see him getting married 8 years later. I would guess the marriage would be closer to the birth of their first child.
Edward is the 6th Great Grandfather of President Abraham Lincoln and my 10th Great Grandpa, making Lincoln my 7th cousin 4x removed with 222 common ancestors. Is it possible to add a Direct Ancestor badge to Edward for Abe Lincoln?
posted by Renee Malloy Esq
BK, if you're following the work I've been doing trying to clear up the confusion about the two Mary Gilmans who emigrated to New England in 1633 and 1638 (one a sister the other a daughter of Edward the immigrant), you may have seen on G2G that the generations above Edward are all messed up. He's currently linked as son of Robert when as you know he should be son of this Edward. (I'm certain this resulted from incorrect merges.)

I'm terrified to try to fix this without seeing a more definitive genealogy of the Gilmans. And that seems to be the 1950 book you have. I don't want to make matters worse. Can you help? Thanks.

posted by Jillaine Smith
There are a couple of merge requests for Robert Gilman. This would seem to be over the idea that his wife was Mary Hawes. I do not know of Gary Boyd Roberts' source for this woman as the wife of Edward Gilman. To me, that source should be investigated before any merges are made.
posted by BK McDonald

Rejected matches › Robert Gilman (bef.1559-bef.1632)

G  >  Gilman  >  Edward Gilman

Categories: Caston, Norfolk | US President Direct Ancestor