no image
Privacy Level: Open (White)

Unknown (Graham) Drummond (abt. 1267)

Unknown [uncertain] Drummond formerly Graham
Born about in Scotlandmap [uncertain]
Ancestors ancestors
Wife of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died [date unknown] in Scotlandmap [uncertain]
Problems/Questions Profile manager: Scotland Project WikiTree private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 21 Feb 2011
This page has been accessed 4,988 times.
Medieval Scotland
Unknown (Graham) Drummond was an inhabitant of Medieval Scotland.
Join: Scotland Project
Discuss: Scotland
The Birth Date is a rough estimate. See the text for details.

Contents

Biography

Unknown (Graham) Drummond is a member of Clan Graham.

Birth

Unknown daughter Graham may have been born after 1267[1] (see research notes 1) and was the alleged daughter of Sir Patrick Graham of Kincardine and Dundaff and Annabella (see John M Sutherland-Fisher research notes 2), the likely daughter of Robert, Earl of Strathearn.[2] From this marriage, Unknown daughter, as well as three sons were born: Patrick, David, and John,[2] confirmed in a 1272 charter that referenced the donation of the village of Aleuth church to Cambuskenneth priory, subscribed by Lord Patrick Graham [and] John, his son.[3] No primary sources have been located to affirm the parentage of Patrick or Unknown daughter.

Marriage

Unknown daughter was married to Sir Malcolm Drummond, 9th Thane of Lennox, by whom she had a son Malcolm Drummond[4] and, according to Balfour Paul, a granddaughter, Margaret Drummond, who was secondly married in 1363 to David II, king of Scotland. Given that David II divorced Margaret Drummond on 20 March 1370 for not producing issue, she may still have been of child-bearing age at this time and thus likely in her 20s or 30s at the time of her second marriage.[2][5][6] This would place her date of birth around 1330 to 1340. Given that Unknown daughter's brother David fought in the battle of Dunbar in 1296,[7] even if only 16 years old at this time, his date of birth would have been 1280.

Death

Unknown daughter's date of death is unknown, as is the location of her burial. No sources have been located from which one could even surmise an estimated date of death.

Research Notes

1. Unknown daughter Graham's d.o.b based upon her brother David's estimated birthdate:

While David's date of birth is uncertain, it can be estimated based upon his military service in the Battle of Dunbar (1296),[7] where according to The Society for Medieval Military History, boys as young as 16 occasionally served in battle, although the forensic evidence indicates that the average age of medieval soldiers was 29.2 years.[1]With this range in mind, it suggests that David may have been born between the years 1267 and 1280, with his death occurring between the ages of 50 and 63. It is unlikely that he would have been born much earlier than 1267, as at the Battle of Dunbar, David would have been by this time 29, which may have placed his father around age 54, probably nearing the end of his fighting days. It is also improbable that David, if born before 1280, would have been of age to engage in the Battle of Dunbar. No sources have been located to corroborate David's approximated dates-of-birth range.

2. POMS vs Douglas accuracy: From John M Sutherland-Fisher Scottish Clans Protocol Team Leader: There seems to be a conflict among a number of authors as to the identity of leading members of the Graham family from the reign of Alexander II through to that of Robert the Bruce. Some of the marriages etc. detailed in the People of Mediaeval Scotland simply defy logic, so I have taken the family and listed it generation by generation as detailed by Sir Robert Douglas in his Peerage of Scotland published in 1764. Sir Robert Douglas only mentions Sir Patrick Graham having 2 sons David and John and makes no mention of any daughters. Most gedcoms do not name the wife of Sir Malcolm of Drummond.

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 Alvarez, S. (3 March 2014). Teenagers at war during the middle ages. Retrieved from De Re Militari (Available online); accessed 20 December 2020.
  2. 2.0 2.1 2.2 Balfour Paul, J. (1909). The Scots peerage: Founded on Wood's ed. of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom (Vol. VI, pp. 207, 208). Edinburgh: D. Douglas. Retrieved from Internet Archive (Available online); accessed 4 December 2020.
  3. Cawley, C. (21 September 2020). Scotland untitled nobility (Graham, David II de Graham, sec. 1. a.). Retrieved from Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (Available online); accessed 4 December 2020.
  4. Drummond, W. (1889). The genealogy of the most noble and ancient House of Drummond (p. 260). Compiles in the year 1681. Glasgow: Privately printed. Retrieved from Internet Archive (Available online); accessed 9 January 2021.
  5. Weir, A. (2008). Britain's royal families, the complete genealogy (p. 212). London: Vintage Books. Retrieved from the personal library of Pamela Moen; accessed 7 January 2021.
  6. Penman, M. A. (2001). The Scots at the Battle of Neville's Cross, 17 October 1346. The Scottish Historical Review, 80, 2: No. 210, 157-180. Retrived from (Available online); accessed 9 January 2021.
  7. 7.0 7.1 Balfour Paul, J. (1909). The Scots peerage: Founded on Wood's ed. of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom (Vol. VI, pp. 208-211). Edinburgh: D. Douglas. Retrieved from Internet Archive (Available online); accessed 9 January 2021.




Is Unknown your ancestor? Please don't go away!
 star icon Login to collaborate or comment, or
 star icon contact private message the profile manager, or
 star icon ask our community of genealogists a question.
Sponsored Search by Ancestry.com

DNA
No known carriers of Unknown's DNA have taken a DNA test.

Have you taken a DNA test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.



Comments: 10

Leave a message for others who see this profile.
There are no comments yet.
Login to post a comment.
Graham-623 and Graham-620 appear to represent the same person because: Graham-623 was intended to be the spouse of Malcolm Drummond-496, but was attached in error to her son Malcolm's profile. She needs to be merged into Graham-620.
posted by Jen (Stevens) Hutton
Done, thanks Jen. Please review the merged profile for anything I might've missed.
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
The birth location came in with the merge, and I didn't notice. Should it be removed?
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
I'm going to be doing some heavy editing anyway, because several generations have been confused here. It may take a few days to get it all straightened out as I need to pull a few more references. This is a huge rabbit hole I fell into while updating David II and trying to document both of his queens! Thanks for completing the merge.
posted by Jen (Stevens) Hutton
Annabell is being detached from her parents - David had two known sons and no daughters per Cawley, Scotland untitled nobility- David [V] de Graham. Foundation for Medieval Genealogy
posted on Graham-623 (merged) by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
I have a question.

When I looked up the castle "Dundaff Castle" in Wikipedia, it gave me the name of Sir John de Graham as being born there. I went to his link and came across the issues. Followed John, Earl of Menteith. I found a daughter by Margaret Graham, Countess. She had 4 marriages and one is listed as "Sir Malcolm Drummond", but no link. However, in the text is shows the name as Sir John Drummond of Concraig. Is Malcolm Drummond (husband) the same as Sir John? Is this Margaret the same as this person here?

posted by Dina (Holman) Gebhart
De Graham-6 and Graham-620 appear to represent the same person because: Looks like same person, can´t be mother and wife of Malcolm Drummond; if DOB is correct, she must be his mother
posted by Jorge Gubbins
Graham-3651 and Graham-620 appear to represent the same person because: Graham-3651 has no name, no spouse, no children. It seems it might be a good idea to merge it away. If not, then please add a spouse and any known children to the profile. Thanks.
Graham-3652 and Graham-3651 appear to represent the same person because: dups with same father and same siblings
posted on Graham-3651 (merged) by N Gauthier
Trathbogie-1 and Graham-623 are not ready to be merged because: These people have different names, different birth dates and different parents
posted on Graham-623 (merged) by Jess Wallace