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Thomas Green (bef. 1600 - 1667)

Thomas Green aka Greene
Born before in Toppesfield, Essex, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Son of and
Brother of , , , , and
Husband of — married before 8 Sep 1625 in Colchester, Essex, Englandmap [uncertain]
Husband of — married 1629 in Essex, Englandmap [uncertain]
Husband of — married 5 Sep 1659 in Malden, Middlesex, Massachusetts Bay Colonymap
Descendants descendants
Father of , , , , , , , , , and
Died after age 67 in Malden, Middlesex, Massachusetts Bay Colonymap
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Profile last modified | Created 12 Jul 2010
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There are disproven, disputed, or competing theories about this person's parents. See the text for details.
The Puritan Great Migration.
Thomas Green migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1621-1640).
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Disambiguation: More than one Thomas Green(e) was born or baptized at England around the same time as the early Massachusetts Bay immigrant. As well, multiple Thomas Greens were early of Massachusetts Bay. These various men, and their wives, are frequently confused in different pedigrees on the internet; errors about the family genealogy are found in print.

Contents

Biography

The identity of Thomas Greene was documented by Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn in 2000. He was baptized at St. Margaret's, Toppesfield, Essex, England, [3 or 18, or 4], say 3 February 1599/1600, son of William Greene[1][2][3] and his second wife, Christian,[4] whose maiden name and parentage are not known. She was the widow of Thomas Bateman, with whom she had at least two children, proved by parish registers and by her own will bequeathing to her son Samuel Batemen and her daughter Mary Batemen Grip's children as well as to her Green children. Thomas is the same man who was deposed Middlesex County, Massachusetts Bay, 16 (2) 1662, then "aged about 62."[5] Thomas died at Malden, Middlesex County, 19 December 1667,[6] leaving a will dated 22 November 1667.[7]

This origin and identity was followed by Robert Charles Anderson in 2003 who referenced the baptismal date and wrote, "Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn identified the English origin of the eldest Thomas Greene of Malden ..."[8]

His father, William Green, was buried at St. Margaret's, Toppesfield, 27 June 1632, leaving a will dated 25 January 1631[/2].[9]

Immigration

The details of the family's immigration are not known. Thomas, and at some point, his wife Elizabeth and at least five of their English-born children, Thomas, John, Elizabeth, William and Henry, immigrated to Massachusetts Bay sometime after Henry's baptism at Toppesfield, 13 January 1638/9.

At Massachusetts Bay

Thomas did not appear in his mother's 1642 will so there is speculation that he was already in New England by that date. His 1662 deposition stated: Tho: Greene aged about 62 years testifieth that about 16 or 18 years agoe living at my Lady Moodeys Farme in Lin, the Farme of Mr. Humphreys adjoyning to the foresayd Farme...&c[9] (citing Middlesex Court Files folio 32) showing that he was in Lynn by about 1644-46.

They were in Malden by 1649 per a deposition of Thomas' son John:

John Greene Senr aged 63 years or thereabouts testifieth that in the year 1649 or thereabouts his father Thomas Green entered as a tennant on Mr. George Bunkers farme in Maldon...&c (see source and notes on John in the "Children" section below).

At Malden, 28 October 1651, his wife Elizabeth and daughter of the same name, signed a petition to the general court concerning the Rev. Marmaduke Matthews.[10][11] That there was a 3rd Elizabeth Green signing this petition is confirmed in the "Vinton Memorial". This was Elizabeth Newman of Strood, Kent, wife of James Green who is not known to be closely related to this family.[12]

Samuel Stillman Greene's "Genealogical Sketch" of this family, while wrong in the particulars of his English origins, provided much information about Green's life in Massachusetts including the following:[13]

  • His 63 acre farm was in the northern part of Malden that was later made part of Melrose.
  • He was selectman of Malden in 1658 and was several times on the grand jury of the County of Middlesex
  • He also notes the 1651 "Marmaduke" petition signed by mother and daughter Elizabeth Green described above.

Thomas died December 19, 1667 in Malden, Middlesex, Massachusetts Bay.[14]

His will was written 22 November 1667, proved 15 January 1667/8. It mentions no wife; he makes bequests to his "eldest son" Thomas, sons John, William, Henry, Samuel, and daughters (given names only) as Elizabeth, Mary, Hannah, Martha, and Dorcas. Sons William and Henry were appointed executors. "John Wayt" and "John Linde" were witnesses. His inventory was made January 1667/8 (£285.18.2). His will and inventory were published by Smith and Sanborn (2000),[15]

Family

Thomas was married three times and was the father of eleven children. He married (1), at England, before 1625 (birth of child, 1625), Mary _____. She may have been the Marie Smith who married at St. Nicholas, Colchester, Essex, 28 June 1624, Thomas Greene,[16] possibly also the Mary Smith baptized St. Margaret's, Toppesfield 17 January 1606/7, daughter John Smith.[17] As Mary Greene, "w. Thomas" she was buried at St. Margaret's, Toppesfield, 8 September 1625,[18] the same day her daughter, also Mary, was baptized.

Thomas and Mary Green were the parents of one child,

  1. Mary Green, baptized St. Margaret's, Toppesfield, 8 September 1625.[19] No further record, "Kempton" presumes that she died young. See Research Notes.

Thomas married (2), at England, say 1629 (birth of child, 1630), Elizabeth _____. She was born, probably England, about 1610 (birth of first presumed child, about 1630) and died at Malden, (6) 1658 [August 1658], "Elizabeth Greene wife of Th. Greene senr."[20]

Thomas and Elizabeth Green were the parents of ten children; the first five born England, all of whom migrated to New England--records of them are found there and each is named in Thomas' will.[21]

  1. Thomas Green, born England, about 1630; named the "eldest son" in his father's will.
  2. John Green, baptized St. Margaret's, Toppesfield, 6 December 1632;[22] "John Greene, Senr" testified at Cambridge, Massachusetts Bay, 10 September 1695, then "age 63 years or thereabouts."[23]
  3. Elizabeth Green, baptized St. Margaret's, Toppesfield, 30 November 1634.[24]
  4. William Green, baptized St. Margaret's, Toppesfield, 15 December 1636;[25] died Malden, 30 December 1705, aged 70 years.[26] Executor of his father's will.
  5. Henry Green, baptized St. Margaret's, Toppesfield, 13 January 1638/9;[27] died at Malden, 19 September 1717, age 78 years, 8 months.[28] Executor of his father's will.
  6. Samuel Green, born at Massachusetts Bay, about April 1645 (died at Malden, 31 October 1724, aged 79 years, 7 months and 19 days).[29]
  7. Mary Green, born at Massachusetts Bay, about 1647. It is possible that there was only one Mary (born 1625), but this is unproven; "Kempton" believes they were separate people. See Research Notes.
  8. Hannah Green, born at Massachusetts Bay, say 1649. See Research Notes.
  9. Martha Green, born at Massachusetts Bay, say 1651.
  10. Dorcas Green, born Malden, 1 May 1653.[30]

Thomas married (3), at Malden, by Capt. Marshall, 5 September 1659, Frances Cook,[31] the widow of both Isaac Wheeler and Richard Cook. She was born about 1612 (deposed Middlesex, Massachusetts, 5 October 1652, aged 44).[32] As Frances Watson, she married (1) at Cranfield, Bedfordshire, England, 9 April 1635, Isaac Wheeler.[33] Frances married (2), perhaps Charlestown, between 16 May 1648 (she was Frances Wheeler in a petition to the court) and before about August 1648 (birth of child, 1649), Richard Cook, who was listed as "of Charlestown" by Savage. After Thomas Greene's death, Francis married (4) Lieutenant Joseph Wheeler.

Research Notes

See also the Thomas Green Free Space Page collecting records,sources and analysis performed while researching this family and other Thomas Greens.

Other Thomas Green(s) of Malden. According to Samuel Stillman Green[13]there were two other Thomas Greene in the town. This Thomas was recorded as senior, and his son, as junior, the "other Thomas left without a suffix."

Not born 1606, Leicetershire. Samuel Stillman Green (1858) published a genealogy suggesting Thomas was born about 1606, perhaps of Leicestershire; [13] this and other genealogically significant claims in his work are out of date. See the more complete, modern genealogy by Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn.[9]

Not the son of John, Thomas or Arthur of Hertfordshire Thomas was not the son of John Green and Ann Almey, nor was he the son of Thomas Greene of St. Albans, Hertfordshire, or of Arthur Green, also said of Hertfordshire.

Baptism date transcription differences. Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn (2000) published his baptismal date as 3 February 1599/1600; this date was published again by Robert Charles Anderson (2003), but the same record has also been transcribed as 4 February 1599/1600 (FreeReg) and 18 February 1599[/1600] (Barnes and Morant, 1905). See the filmed image of the parish register page, FamilySearch.

Not aboard the Planter, Hopewell or Speedwell. He was not the Thomas Green, age 15 (born about 1620), who enrolled at London on 2 April 1635 for passage aboard the Planter; or 3 April 1635 aboard the Hopewell.[34][35][36] Thomas Green baptized 1599/1600 should also not be confused with the 24-year old man (born about 1611) aboard the Speedwell (1635), bound for Virginia.[37]

First Wife Mary: The Colchester marriage to Mary Smith is certainly possible and there was an age-appropriate Mary Smith born in Toppesfield, but why a couple both of Toppesfield would get married 20 miles away at Colchester is uncertain. Arguing against the Colchester marriage is a second christening found there on 17 Jan 1626 (double year not stated) of Thomas Greene, son of Thomas Greene and Mary.[38] This is after the 8 Sep 1625 Toppesfield burial of Mary (below). But just to make it interesting, this christening was at St. Botolph which was apparently an Augustinian (Catholic) church and the marriage of 28 Jun 1624 was at St. Nicholas (Church of England). So maybe the Anglican couple of Toppesfield married at St. Nicholas Colchester, and the Catholic couple of Colchester married there at St. Botolph. Sadly young Thomas was buried at St. Botolph on 23 Nov 1626 (findmypast.co.uk Reference D/P 203/1/1) so was definitely NOT the later son of Thomas Green of Toppesfield with second wife Elizabeth. Further, a Thomas Greene and Eunice had a child James christened at St. Botolph on 6 Apr 1628 (findmypast reference D/P 203/1/1), maybe the same Thomas with a different marriage? In any case, Thomas Greenes were apparently thick on the ground at Colchester.

Second Wife Elizabeth was ...

  • Not Elizabeth Swindells Elizabeth Swindells, a spinster, married at Prestbury, Cheshire, England, 5 July 1627, John Greene, by license dated 26 June 1627.[39][40][41][42] A Thomas Green was bondsman for the marriage license. Possibly someone mis-recorded the groom's name in the process of transferring data. John and Elizabeth (Swindells) Greene may be the couple who lived at Adlington, a village in the parish of Prestbury. Perhaps also the parents of Edward, baptised 27 January 1627/8, and buried 20 May 1636; and Ellen, baptised 10 June 1630. [See G2G.]
  • Not Elizabeth Newman. Elizabeth Newman was mis-identified as the wife of the immigrant, Thomas Green, in a 2004 release of Judy Parsons Smith's Windows into Our Past.[43] This work also mis-identified the origin and parentage of the immigrant, reporting Thomas Greene was born "St. Albans, Hartfort," England, about 1600, died "16 April 1674," the son of an Arthur Green. Elizabeth Newman is otherwise presumed the wife of James Greene of Charlestown. See Thomas Bellows Wyman, The genealogies and estates of Charlestown.[44] and William H. Whitmore, "The Wing Family."[45] See Frederick A. Virkus, The Abridged Compendium of American Genealogy (1925)[46] An entry for James Green-Elizabeth Newman appears just above the entry for Thomas Green-Elizabeth _____. It is possible this Elizabeth (Newman) Green became mistakenly associated with Thomas by someone transferring data.
  • Not Elizabeth Lynde. Information about her is generally conflicted; her name, more often than not, is given as Elizabeth Lynde Swindells, Family files usually report her birth at Presbury, Cheshire. She is at times said daughter of Dea. Thomas Lynde. Her husband is described as Thomas Green, born/baptized St. Albans, Hertfordshire, 3 August 1600, son of John Green and Ann Almey Scargell. The Green-Lynde marriage is said at St. Albans, Hertfordshire, 26 June 1627 (same date as the Green-Swindells Cheshire license). No historical records were found at Prestbury or St. Albans to support these various claims. (One Thomas Greene was baptized Stevenage, Hertfordshire, 3 August 1600, son of Thomas.)[47] [See G2G.]

No marriage to Lynde. A prior version of this profile reported "He married 26 JUN 1627 Hertfordshire, England as Thomas UNKNOWN to Wife Elizabeth Lynde." English records could not be located to support any of these claims. The English record was located for a Thomas Greene, baptized Stevenage, Hertfordshire, 3 August 1600, son of Thomas.[48] See also "Not Elizabeth Swindells," "Not Elizabeth Newman" and "Not Elizabeth Lynde."

Daughter Mary. There is very little concrete knowledge about the one or two daughters named "Mary." The main argument for there being two is the order of daughters listed in the will (Mary after Elizabeth indicates she was younger and therefore born in Massachusetts). While Smith and Sanborn (2000) suggest the first Mary, christened 1625 died very young, so that a second Mary was born at Massachusetts about 1647; these may be the same person. The other Green publications cited here (Hanaforth, Mohawk-Hudson) say nothing of her. Samuel Stillman Greene (1858) says, in error, she married Captain John Waite before 1656, but his wife was Mary Hills, daughter of Joseph Hills. The error likely arose because Thomas Green (jr) called John Waite "brother" in his will leading people to think that Waite married Thomas Green's sister Mary. The reality is that Rebecca Hills, wife of Thomas Jr. and Mary Hills, wife of John Waite were sisters making Thomas Green and John Waite brothers-in-law. As is well-known, "brother" in those times also stood in for "brother-in law" just as "cousin" could mean nephew or niece.[49] This is further proved by the will of Joseph Hills calling John Waite "son" aka "son-in-law" in his will.[50] The fate of Thomas Green's daughter or daughters, Mary, is an open issue.

Daughter Hannah. She was still living in 1667 when mentioned in her father's will. "Kempton" speculated that she may have been the Hannah who married Thomas Knowlton of Ipswich and Charlestown on 24 Nov 1668[51] or the Hanah Unknown who married Abraham Skinner by 1681 at Malden.[52]

Samuel S. Greene asserted that she married Joseph Richardson of Woburn on 5 November 1666[53] and died 20 May 1721[54] He points to the "Vinton Memorial" [12] for further reading. All three of these marriages are documented in Massachusetts Vital Records so clearly further research is needed as there was more than one Hannah Green of marriageable age in the area at the time.

Roxbury. WIP --- Records reportedly found in Roxbury, Massachusetts (See "Mohawk Genealogy" below) and another Thomas Green of Malden who married Margaret Call and seemingly Elizabeth Webb have been mixed in with this Thomas Green .... The validity of the Roxbury records are uncertain and bear further research; some research has also indicated a "Widow Green" of Roxbury.

Errors in Print.

  • Cuyler Reynolds, Hudson-Mohawk Genealogical and Family Memoirs (1911) published an unsourced biography, including speculation about various Green lineages. The author included sons Nathaniel ad Jabez in Thomas' family.
  • Mary Elisabeth Neal Hanaford, Family Records of Branches of the Hanaford, Thompson ... is a mish-mash of Green information. She states in three consecutive paragraphs that Thomas Jr came to America with his father. that he was a passenger for Virginia on the 1635 Speedwell, and that Thomas Green was of Ipswich, Massachusetts, 19 December 1648 (possible but unsourced and could have been the Thomas Green who married Margaret Call). Her presentation could lead to an erroneous understanding of these various families; she has simply listed a string of "Green" facts about different people in different places and times (as opposed to a linear narration of the family of Malden, Massachusetts.
  • Another mash-up of Green information is found in Samuel S. Greene's "A Genealogical Sketch...&c"[13] This work states (all unsourced) that Thomas of Malden was born about 1606 (ignoring his own deposition stating he was born 1600), that there was "probably reason to think" they came from Leicestershire (but matching the children with those born in Toppesfield, Essex), states a daughter Mary born about 1633 who married John Waite in 1655 (Thomas had a daughter Mary b. 1625 who seems to have died at birth and another who was likely born about 1647 and Torrey says that John Waite married Mary Hills, daughter of Joseph Hill, NOT Mary Green) and it goes on. He does agree with the later marriage to Frances Cook/Wheeler but this publication should be treated with care.

Sources

  1. ↑ As baptized 18 February 1599[/1600], H. B. Barnes and Philip Morant, The register of baptisms, marriages and burials at St. Margaret's, Toppesfield Parish, Essex Co., England : 1559-1650 ... (Topsfield, Mass. : Merrill Press, 1905), 19; digital images, InternetArchive.
  2. ↑ Thomas Green 1599 baptism, "Baptisms, 1559-1692 ..." in "Parish registers for Toppesfield"; digital image, FamilySearch, FHL film 857,071, Item 5, DGS 4,298,449, image 539 of 615 (recto).
  3. ↑ As baptized 4 February 1599/00, Essex : Toppesfield : St Margaret of Antioch : Register of unspecified type : "Parish Register"; database, FreeREG, viewed 18 Nov 2021.
  4. ↑ As baptized 3 February 1599/1600, Dean Crawford Smith, Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed., The ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908 in 4 parts (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-310, at 300; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).
  5. ↑ Citing "Middlesex Court Files, folio 32," Dean Crawford Smith, Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed., The ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908 in 4 parts (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-304, at 300; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).
  6. ↑ Citing "Malden VR 346," Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed, The Ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908, in 4 parts, (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-304, at 300; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).
  7. ↑ Citing "Middlesex Probate 5:270-275, also original papers in #9840," Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed, The Ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908, in 4 parts, (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-304, at 301-302; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).
  8. ↑ Robert Charles Anderson, Great Migration: Immigrants to New England, 1634-1635, Volume III, G-H (2003), 150; digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors.
  9. ↑ 9.0 9.1 9.2 Citing "Commissary Court of London, Essex & Herts. Division 51:11," Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed, The Ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908, in 4 parts, (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-310 (Green), at 296-97; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow); transcription of the will appears.
  10. ↑ Citing MBCR:3:236, 250, 257, 294, Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed, The Ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908, in 4 parts, (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-310 (Green), at 301-302; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).
  11. ↑ Nathaniel B. Shurtleff, ed., Records of the Governor and Company of the Massachusetts Bay in New England, 5 vols. in 6 (Boston, W. White, printer to the commonwealth, 1853-54), 3:236, 250, 257, 294; digital images, Hathi Trust].
  12. ↑ 12.0 12.1 The Vinton Memorial, Comprising a Genealogy of the Descendants of John ...by John Adams Vinton Publication date 1858 p. 395
  13. ↑ 13.0 13.1 13.2 13.3 A Genealogical Sketch of the Descendants of Thomas Green of Malden, Mass. (Henry W. Dutton & Son, Boston, 1858) by Greene, Samuel Stillman, 1810-1883 Page 8
  14. ↑ Corey, Deloraine Pendre, Births, marriages and deaths in the town of Malden, Massachusetts, 1649-1850 (Cambridge, MA: Printed at the University Press for the City of Malden, 1903) p. 346.
  15. ↑ Citing "Middlesex Probate 5:270-75; also original papers in #9840," Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed, The Ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908, in 4 parts, (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-310 (Green), at 301-304; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).
  16. ↑ Greene-Smith 1624 marriage, "England Marriages, 1538–1973 "; database (only), FamilySearch, St Nicholas. Coldchester, Essex, England in IGI Batch M137953.
  17. ↑ Mary Smith 1606 baptism, H. B. Barnes and Philip Morant, The register of baptisms, marriages and burials at St. Margaret's, Toppesfield Parish, Essex Co., England : 1559-1650 ... (Topsfield, Mass. : Merrill Press, 1905), 21; digital images, InternetArchive.
  18. ↑ Mary Greene (wife) 1625 burial, H. B. Barnes and Philip Morant, The register of baptisms, marriages and burials at St. Margaret's, Toppesfield Parish, Essex Co., England : 1559-1650 ... (Topsfield, Mass. : Merrill Press, 1905), 60; InternetArchive.
  19. ↑ Mary Greene (child) 1625 baptism, H. B. Barnes and Philip Morant, The register of baptisms, marriages and burials at St. Margaret's, Toppesfield Parish, Essex Co., England : 1559-1650 ... (Topsfield, Mass. : Merrill Press, 1905), 31; digital images, InternetArchive.
  20. ↑ "Births, Marriages and Deaths in Malden, Massachusetts," New England Historical and Genealogical Register, 10 (1856):162; digital images, InternetArchive.
  21. ↑ Citing "Middlesex Probate 5:270-275, also original papers in #9840," Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed, The Ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908, in 4 parts, (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-304, at 301-302; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).
  22. ↑ John Greene 1632 baptism, H. B. Barnes and Philip Morant, The register of baptisms, marriages and burials at St. Margaret's, Toppesfield Parish, Essex Co., England : 1559-1650 ... (Topsfield, Mass. : Merrill Press, 1905), 35; digital image, InternetArchive.
  23. ↑ Citing "Middlesex Court Files, folio 179," Dean Crawford Smith, Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed., The ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908 in 4 parts (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-310, at 301; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).
  24. ↑ Elizabeth Greene 1636 baptism, H. B. Barnes and Philip Morant, The register of baptisms, marriages and burials at St. Margaret's, Toppesfield Parish, Essex Co., England : 1559-1650 ... (Topsfield, Mass. : Merrill Press, 1905), 36; digital image, InternetArchive.
  25. ↑ William Greene 1636 baptism, H. B. Barnes and Philip Morant, The register of baptisms, marriages and burials at St. Margaret's, Toppesfield Parish, Essex Co., England : 1559-1650 ... (Topsfield, Mass. : Merrill Press, 1905), 37; digital image, InternetArchive.
  26. ↑ Citing "Malden VR 346," Dean Crawford Smith, Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed., The ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908 in 4 parts (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-310, at 304; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).
  27. ↑ Henery Greene 1638 baptism, H. B. Barnes and Philip Morant, The register of baptisms, marriages and burials at St. Margaret's, Toppesfield Parish, Essex Co., England : 1559-1650 ... (Topsfield, Mass. : Merrill Press, 1905), 39; digital image, InternetArchive.
  28. ↑ Citing "Malden VR 346," Dean Crawford Smith, Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed., The ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908 in 4 parts (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-310, at 305; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).
  29. ↑ Citing "Gravestone, Bell Rock Cemetery ..." and "Malden VR 346," Dean Crawford Smith, Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed., The ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908 in 4 parts (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-310, at 305; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).
  30. ↑ Corey, Malden VRs, p. 32.
  31. ↑ Corey, Malden VRs, p. 237. (Archive.org); also available on Hathi Trust.
  32. ↑ Charles Henry Pope, The Pioneers of Massachusetts ... (1900), 116 (Richard Cook); digital images, InternetArchive.
  33. ↑ Parish registers for Cranfield, 1600-1972 FHL film 952401 Item 1, FamilySearch.
  34. ↑ Citing "Hotten 45" and "Hotten 46," Robert Charles Anderson, Great Migration: Immigrants to New England, 1634-1635, Volume III, G-H (2003), 150-51; digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors.
  35. ↑ James Camden Hotten, The original lists of persons of quality ... (London, Empire State Book Co. 1874),45-46 (Planter), 46-47 (Hopewell), 49 (Hopewell); digital images, Hathi Trust.
  36. ↑ Anne Stevens, Hopewell; web content, PackRatPro, cites, in part, "Coldwell pages 132-133"; includes significantly more detail than Hotten, reports the 15 year-old passenger, Thomas Greene" was of Duffil, Derbyshire and "son of George."
  37. ↑ Anne Stevens, Speedwell (1635 Passenger list); web content, PackRat Pro.
  38. ↑ Colchester parish regiser 17 Jan 1626 christening of Thomas Greene findmypast.co.uk Reference D/P 203/1/1 $subscription
  39. ↑ Greene-Swindells 1627 marriage, James Croston, ed., Record Society for the Publication of Original Documents relating to Lancashire and Cheshire, 109 vols. ([S.l.] : The Society, 1879-1965), 5 (Prestbury 1560-1636):260; digital images, Hathi Trust.
  40. ↑ Greene-Swindels 1627 marriage, "Parish registers for Prestbury, Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1560-1636, 1637-1685 ..." in "England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000"; images, FamilySearch, courtesy of Cheshire Record Office; FHL film 2093600 DGS 4018873, image 131 of 481.
  41. ↑ Green-Swindells 1627 marriage license, William Ferguson Irvine, ed., Marriage Licences in the Diocese of Chester 1624-1632, 8 vols. ([Edinburgh & London] : Printed for the Society, 1907-1924), in The Record Society for the Publication of Original Documents related to Lancashire and Cheshire 3 (vol. 57):98; digital images, Hathi Trust.
  42. ↑ Greene-Swindles 1627 marriage license, "Marriage licences, 1624-1631, 1639-1644, 1661-1673" in "England, Cheshire, Marriage Bonds and Allegations, 1606-1900"; database and images, FamilySearch (database, indexed as Johnem Greene and Elizabetham Swindles, 26 Jun 1627) and FamilySearch (digital image, Latin), courtesy of Cheshire Record Office, Chester, FHL film 1,885,391, DGS 4,018,557, image 118 of 285 (sixth entry, verso).
  43. ↑ Judy Parsons Smith, Windows Into Our Past, Volume 6 ... (1 January 2004), 76; digital images, Issuu.com (download), citing "Information from Appalachian Ancestors, 2002 [by E-mail from darlene (email address removed/privacy)].
  44. ↑ The Genealogies and Estates of Charlestown ..., 2 vols. (D. Clapp, Boston, 1879), 1:437 (James Green, 12); digital images, IntenetArchive.
  45. ↑ William H. Whitmore, "The Wing Family," The New England Historical and Genealogical Register, 38 (1874):376-378, at 377; digital images, InternetArchive.
  46. ↑ Frederick A. Virkus, The Abridged Compendium of American Genealogy, multiple vols. (Chicago, A.N. Marquis & company, 1925), 1:978; digital images, Hathi Trust.
  47. ↑ Thomas Greene 1600 (Stevenage) baptism, "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"; database only, FamilySearch.
  48. ↑ Thomas Greene 1600 (Stevenage) baptism, "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"; database only, FamilySearch.
  49. ↑ Waite-Hills 1656 marriage, New England Marriages prior to 1700 multiple vols. (2015), 3:1577; database and digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors.
  50. ↑ William Sanford Hills and Thomas Hills, ed., Genealogical data relating to the ancestry and descendants of William Hills (Boston, Press of A. Mudge & son [1902]), 69-72 (Joseph Hills),72 (Hills-Clark child list), 72-73 (Mary Hills), 74 (Rebecca Hills); digital images, Hathi Trust].
  51. ↑ Essex Institute, Vital Records of Ipswich, Massachusetts, to the year 1849 (Salem, MA: Essex Institute, 1910), Vol. II, p. 265.
  52. ↑ (Online database. AmericanAncestors.org. New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2008.) Originally published as: New England Marriages Prior to 1700. Boston, Mass.: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2015. Hannah Unknown, Abraham Skinner Malden marriage by 1681 Vol 2. p. 1382 (AmericanAncestors.org by subscription).
  53. ↑ Johnson, Edwin, Woburn, Massachusetts, Records of Births, Deaths, and Marriages From 1640 to 1873, 3 vols. (Woburn, MA: Andrews, Cutler & Co., 1890-1891) Vol. 3, Marriages 1640-1873, p. 226
  54. ↑ Johnson, Woburn Records, Vol. II, Deaths 1640-1873, p. 158
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It may be possible to confirm family relationships with Thomas by comparing test results with other carriers of his Y-chromosome or his mother's mitochondrial DNA. However, there are no known yDNA or mtDNA test-takers in his direct paternal or maternal line. It is likely that these autosomal DNA test-takers will share some percentage of DNA with Thomas:

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M Cole
I've attempted to integrate the Disputed Associations into the Research Notes, although there is probably still some duplication and probably could use another round or edits and perhaps consolidation reorganization. I've left the Disambiguation note at the top. When someone has time to identify the specific profiles which can cause confusion a Nav box should be added: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Easily_Confused
posted by M Cole
Gillam-558 M. A. (Gillam) Old
I have the wife Elizabeth as Elizabeth Barton b. abt 1806 d. Jun 1658 before coming to Massachussets. Source: Everett Rankin Clark Bay Colony.....On July 5 1649 he m. Frances Waston, widow of (1) Isaac Wheeler and (2) Richard. Cook..... Thomas Green d. 19 Dec 1667 in Malden. His will dated 12 Nov. and probated Jan 15 1668 bequeathed to the eldest son, Thomas,to sons, John, William, Henry and Samuel; to daughters, Elizabeth, Mary, Hannah, Martha, Dorcas and to his wife. Thomas Green was a farmer....63 acres consisting of meadow, broken upland and marshland. He was selectman of Malden in 1658 and several times on the Middlesex Co. grand jury. Not a good source, but perhaps somethiing to persue.Gillam-558
posted by M. A. (Gillam) Old
Hill-11959 S (Hill) Willson
She died after he married Frances Waston? and after he came to New England? This doesn't seem to make sense.
posted by S (Hill) Willson
GeneJ X
Daughter Mary.

Cross posting a comment on the profile of linked daughter, Mary (Green) Waite (abt.1647-), who WikiTree reports as both Thomas' daughter and John Waite's wife.

Hi Stephanie,
As Brad's research showed (see his comment on the profile bio), Torrey called John Waite's wife Mary Hills. I suspect a family relationship between Thomas^2 Green's wife and John Waite's wife might explain why Thomas^2 Green referred to John Waite in the way he did, but, we should have that documented.
See current "New England Marriages prior to 1700"* (the third supplement was done by Melinde Lutz Sanborn), for the list of works consulted by Torrey, "Warner-Harrington 642; Reg. 24:103, 26:82, 28:89, 31:161, 32:189, 51:299, 301, 57:196, 94:221; Snow-Estes 1:216, 217, 238, 273, 2:235; Dawes-Gates 1:465; Charlestown 8, 438, 986; Malden 833, Green (#4) 8, 71; Hills 258; Stone (#6) 87; Felt Anc. 140; Newhall Anc. 50, 56; Tufts 1, 3; Waite (1913) 15; Vinton Mem. 395; Cushing (ms) 241."
Information on how to track down "Torrey's Sources" is here -- Sources-Torrey
Perhaps you could pull some of the higher quality sources, Stephanie, and add details to her profile? Thanks.
  • Waite-Hills 1656 marriage, New England Marriages prior to 1700 multiple vols. (2015), 3:1577; database and digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors.
posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
GeneJ X
Daughter Hannah.

Cross posting an earlier comment on the profile of linked daughter Hannah Green, who WikiTree reports as both Thomas' daughter and the wife of Joseph Richardson.

Hi Dick, Barbara, Tina and others,
Thank you for supporting WikiTree.
Do you know if any historical records can be relied upon either to show that (a) this Hannah was the daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth (_____) Green of Malden, or (b) Thomas and Elizabeth's daughter Hannah was the woman who married Joseph Richardson?
The birth vital data on the profile (not the biography) reports Hannah was born at Woburn, "7 Feb 1647" but the entry reads "Hannah [Green], d. of William and Hannah, [born] Feb. 7, 1647" in the Woburn vital records. See Edward F. Johnson, Woburn records of births, deaths, marriages, and marriage intentions, from 1640 to 1900, 10 vols. (Woburn, Mass. : Andrews, Cutler, & Co., 1890-1919), 1 (Births 1640-1873):110 (Green); digital images, Hathi Trust,
It is possible the link to parents and spouse may have come from Samuel S. Greene's early 1858 A genealogical sketch of the descendants of Thomas Green(e) of Malden. He suggested Thomas and Elizabeth (_____) Green's daughter Hannah married Joseph Richardson, but this and other genealogical claims were not followed in the more modern genealogy by Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ''The Ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908. See part 4, 293-310, at 304-306; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).
Smith and Sanborn (2000) thought Thomas' daughter Hannah might have married 1668 to Thomas Knowlton of Ipswich and Charlestown, or by 1681 to Abraham Skinner.
Assuming the entry in Woburn VR is indeed the birth of this woman, then perhaps Joseph Richardson's wife was also the daughter of William and Hannah.
Hoping there might be additional research available.--Gene
Edited to add: There were several children born early to William or William and Hannah at Woburn,
Hannah, d. of William and Hannah, Feb 7 1647
John, s. of William, Oct. 11, 1649
William, s. William, Oct. 22, 1651.
posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
Brad Stauf
Greene-9726 and Green-133 appear to represent the same person because: duplicate malden immigrant built temporarily, drop all info from 9726 when merging
posted by Brad Stauf
GeneJ X
Unless there are objections, Brad and I plan to begin the work to restore the historical record of this Thomas Green(e). I will create use research notes to preserve alternate passages that may related to other men of the name. --Gene

Edited to add: First pass has been posted; more life story events will be added.

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
[Living Martin]
I have some objections... I feel as though we should would with the generation after this couple to sort out who properly belongs to this Thomas Green, because since the merge of another Thomas Green a few days ago, the children no longer make sense, namely the two Mary's, one being Waite another being "Toppefield" Mary Greene, another issue is Samuell Greene doesn't really have a clear progenitor that I can find in the records, but is/was associated with the Thomas Greene/Elizabeth Lynde couple... but my objection would be to work with more current records and generations to help sort out this family a bit better. There is a Martha Lynde for example a few generations closer to the present who married a Thomas Greene... I think this is a good clue for understanding this family "at large" better. It seems like there is a good list and records of the siblings listed through wills and the like. Instead of "fussing" over Thomas Greene-133 I think it would be better to accept that some of the Greens mentioned in Samuel's will for example, could be better researched prior to further "decision making" as to "who" this Thomas Green was... just my thoughts we can pm each other if you'd like to collaborate further on what is meant by restoring the historical record since I believe the other objection I would have would be your proposal to sever Elizabeth (Lynde) Green (1607-1658) profile but to "keep" her old profile Elizabeth (Unknown) Greene (abt.1610-1658) from this Thomas which I'm not so sure about either at this time, and would seem to disagree with the your new notion to restore the historical record of Thomas without considering what to do with these spouses and children of his as well... I'm working on my proposal regarding this so in lieu of changing things further, let's do some research and work with free space pages, etc so that we may work this issue out together.
posted by [Living Martin]
Hill-11959 S (Hill) Willson
I, for one, am unclear what you are asking for, Stephanie. For eample, are you talking about the Samuel Greene attached to this profile? How does understanding Martha Lynde who generations later married Thomas Greene help us understand this couple? What does Samuel Green's will have to do with this couple? I am uncelar what you mean with respect to Elizabeth Lynde Green and Elizabeth Unknown Greene as it relates to Thomas Greene. The historical record would of course consider his spouses and children.

When can we expect your proposal? This should not keep dragging on and on...

posted by S (Hill) Willson
GeneJ X
Hi Stephanie,

Thank you for your comment, and for all the work you have done on the Green/e profiles.

Let me comment on what I believe are a couple of your main points.

(1) Green-133 is the profile of Thomas Green, baptized at Toppesfield, Essex, England, 3 February 1599/1600, died at Malden, Middlesex County, Massachusetts Bay, 19 December 1667 leaving a will dated 22 November 1667. He was the son of William Greene and his second wife, Christian. She was the widow of Thomas Bateman, with whom she had at least two children.

During the recent merge, his profile became confused with a number of other men, presumably all Thomas Green, who were born/baptized at different places in England to different parents.

Restoring the historical record means his profile will be refreshed so that it reports about the records we actually believe to be about this particular Thomas Greene, his wives and children.

Bits in the current profile that pertain to other Greens, Thomas Greens, and disputed spouses will be noticed in appropriate places on the profile. To the extent we know of WikiTree profiles about those other persons, links will be included in the Research Notes section.

(2) Elizabeth ______ (Unknown-581419). This profile is not the "old profile" of Elizabeth Lynde Swindels. As I understand this issue, the profile has always been about Thomas Green's wife Elizabeth, the woman who bore his children, immigrated with him and died at Malden. The name on the profile was changed from "Elizabeth Swindells (Lynde) Green" to Elizabeth Unknown, because there was no historical justification for the prior name--no one has been able to identify contemporaneous records to support that this Elizabeth, the wife of Thomas Green (1599/1600-1667), son of William and Christian, was ever a person Elizabeth Lynde or Elizabeth Swindells or Elizabeth Lynde Swindells or Elizabeth Swindells Lynde.

Then you also commented about a few other things.

(3) Two Marys. It is presumed that Mary born 1625 died young, and that the Mary mentioned in Thomas' will was the second child of that name born to Thomas and Elizabeth. If you find this to be a problem, please be more specific.

(4) Samuel Green. You wrote, "Samuell Greene doesn't really have a clear progenitor."

Assuming you mean Green-412, WikiTree reports he was the son of Thomas Green (Green-133) and Elizabeth _____ (Unknown-581419). Thomas's will mentions his son Samuel. He was born about April 1645 (he died at Malden, 31 October 1724, aged 79 years, 7 months and 19 days).

If you feel Samuel has not been properly identified, perhaps you could identify the historical records from which conflicts arise and use those as the basis for a G2G question.

(5) You expressed a wish that collaborators would "work with more current records and generations to help sort out this family a bit better" and research "Martha Lynde for example a few generations closer to the present who married a Thomas Greene," also that the Greens mentioned in Samuel's will should be researched.

I realize that you have an interest in researching a broad swath of Green families. By comparison, WikiTree's Puritan Great Migration Project has a specific and narrower focus.

The priority now is to have the profile of Green-133 be about Thomas Green (3 February 1599/1600-19 December 1667), and that it properly report his known parents and children.

(6) Research. You wrote, "let's do some research ..." If you feel we have not adequately researched Thomas Green (3 February 1599/1600-19 December 1667), you will need to be much, much more specific, as the different posts on G2G are evidence that a lot of research has been done.

Hope this helps, Stephanie.--Gene.

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
[Living Martin]
I don't believe Thomas Green 3 Feb 1599/1600 is the same Thomas Green 1605/1606 Green and both of them had the same death date... I believe the PGM project's focus should obviously have a mind to be connecting to the wider wikitree no matter what the focus is; inevitably there will be a point in which focuses and projects overlap; that is the reality. There is an issue for example, with the Elizabeth Greene Lineage as listed in the Eva Belle Kempton biography, heavily sourced in these recent changes, so it is unclear why the PGM project wouldn't be interested in looking beyond that time period to understand the resources being used for a more reliable means to the end... there is an Ira Persons Kempton listed in the 1850 census in the same household as Linda Anna Powers and it seems she may have been mistaken with another personage or otherwise that is when the lineage gets a bit muddy... This woman is attributed to being the Grandmother of Ava Belle Kempton, her reported mother being Alice Meak Bartlett, and the biological father may have been Frank Kempton and her step father was George Barnes. In other words, I believe "we" have adequately researched the Thomas Greene born in 1599/1600 but who was the Thomas Green born in 1605 or 1606 associated with this profile? I don't believe enough research has been done to figure that one out.
posted by [Living Martin]
Cochoit-2 Joe Cochoit
If this is the profile of Thomas Green b. 3 Feb 1599/1600, why is his birth date given as 1605/6?

Why is he still attached to the wrong parents? I see no inconsistencies in the next generation - the children all match known baptisms or are named in wills. PGM does worry about the next generation.

Stephanie, who is Thomas Green b. 1605/6? If he existed, then he needs to have his own profile. Is there a source for his existence?

posted by Joe Cochoit
[Living Martin]
This was the profile for that Thomas Green b. 1605/6 and I accidently helped approve of a merge proposed by Brad Stauff between Thomas Greene-7805 and Thomas-133. Then, another proposed merge, Thomas Green-4391 was proposed, which if you scroll down, you can see my explanation why, and I will explain again that I accidentally approved of a merge that I didn't catch in time, the change in birth date prior to the merge to match the Toppefield, Mass, rather than being able to truly compare them side by side as they were found, which should have been a not ready to be merged match rather than a quick change to reflect one another. Even though I rejected the match, the PGM PPP the profile and completed the merge anyway... that is why it is problematic for this Thomas Green to be "about" the Toppefield 1599 Thomas Green, because he/they were erroneously merged into this one in the first place. Therefore, it would make most sense for the new Thomas Green, son of William Green and Christian, to have their own profile.
posted by [Living Martin]
Cochoit-2 Joe Cochoit
So after putting in just a little bit of work into this Thomas Green, it turns out these are meant to be the same person. Both Thomas Green b 1599/1600 and Thomas Green b 1605/6 are meant to be Thomas Green of Malden with children Thomas, John Elizabeth, William, Henry, Samuel, Hannah, Martha and Dorcas. The 1605/6 birth date and speculation that he came from Leicestershire was just guesswork that originated in the 1858 book Genealogical Sketch of the Descendants of Thomas Green of Malden, Mass. The idea that he arrived on the Planter is just wrong as that person was aged 15 in 1635.

The profiles were correctly merged and now the profile needs to be updated to the modern research as published in The ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton.

posted by Joe Cochoit
GeneJ X
Hi Stephanie,

I agree that the two Thomas' are not the same, but one of them, the man baptized 3 February 1599/1600, is shown to have died Malden, 19 December 1667.

Unless I have missed something, none of the points in your comment seem obstacles to completing the work to restore good order to the profile of Green-133, so that it is about Thomas Green (1599/1600-1667).

Thank you again, Stephanie. --Gene

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
[Living Martin]
I may have missed something as well, because it would appear to me that Green-133 should perhaps be about the Thomas Green of Malden, Mass born 1605 who seems to be the son of John Green and Scargell and the other Thomas Green, born 1599/1600 also associated with the same death year and place, Malden, Mass was erroneously merged into this one, son of William Green and Christian ____ whom William was also merged into the husband of Christian _____ recently which should also me discussed. This profile I don't believe was ever associated with Christian _____ until recently so I suppose the obstacle would be to figure out that Thomas Green and company before continuing the merging and disconnecting of profiles to figure out what we are trying to do with this Thomas Green-133 who I don't think should "be about" the Thomas Green 1599 because that would be based on them both "sharing" a death date and place but the new information is the new birth* date and personage, son of William Green and Christian _____ and that Thomas was merged into this Thomas... just like Elizabeth Newman is no longer in the running to replace Elizabeth Unknown, I don't think Thomas Green-133 should be in the running to formally replace the other Thomas Green that was merged into this one, the one that came with the Francis Wheeler information, and Kempton based research, etc.
posted by [Living Martin]
edited by [Living Martin]
GeneJ X
Hi Stephanie,

(1) I'm sure others are more expert in interpreting GEDCOM imports, but it looks to me as though Green-133 has always been associated with "Elizabeth Lynde," whose improved identity as Elizabeth Unknown has been discussed.

(2) As I parse your claim regarding Green-133, you believe there are actually two candidates for this profile.

  • Thomas Green baptized Toppesfield, Essex, England, [3 or 18 or 4, say 3] 3 February 1599/1600, son of William and Christian (_____) Green. This Thomas Green(e) died at Malden, Middlesex County, Massachusetts, 19 December 1667. There are dozens of historical records associated with this Thomas. Based on these historical records, his identification as the early Massachusetts Bay immigrant was made by Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn in 2000; it was followed by Robert Charles Anderson in 2003, who referred to him as "the eldest Thomas Greene of Malden."
  • A Thomas Green, claimed "of Malden, Mass. born 1605 who seems to be the son of John Green and Scargell," but about whom no historical support has been shown. Nonetheless, you believe he shares the same death date/location as the man described above.

I do not share your approach. I find the death data associated with the man baptized Toppesfield 1599/1600 to have been properly devised from analysis of the historical record, and the death date/location claimed for the 1605 man to be unsupported and likely errant.

It is not clear to me that other items in your post(s) are material to the identification of this Green-133.

Hope this helps.--Gene

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
[Living Martin]
1) This is where I agree: Thomas-133 has always been associated with "Elizabeth Lynde" whose improved identity is "Elizabeth Unknown" and has since not been confused or attempted to be merged into "Elizabeth Newman" whose identity has also improved from this discussion.

2) This is where the communication breakdown seems to be: I don't believe there are 2 candidates for this profile; I assert that Thomas-133 has been erroneously merged into 2 other Thomas Green/e profiles proposed by Brad Stauff, 1 which I accidentally helped on and the other I suggested we pump the breaks on, prior to merging him into this one. I believe the Thomas Green of Toppefield was erroneously merged with Thomas Green-133 based on the same death date associated with both men, again, likely another error. But that doesn't make this Thomas Green-133 suddenly a candidate for the Toppefield, England Thomas Green. I believe that closer looks at wills and probate records may help clear up the confusion of 1667. My thinking is that the 1667 death date is the smoking gun to figure out which family belongs to which and so I don't see a problem in keeping the two identities separate, based on the confirmed difference in birthdate, and add to the surrounding information about why/how both men were given this same death date and find a grave information etc. because it is clear to me that two families are getting confused here, and they might be in the same family but in differing generations, etc. but what is not clear is why suddenly this other family is being attached to this Thomas Green-133 without this type of research beforehand.

If anything, we should "give" the 1667 death date to the other Thomas Green of Toppefield that had been erroneously merged into this Thomas Greene-133 based on that same death date alone, and put unknown for this Thomas Green-133 death date until his will is proved and found and I do believe I am hot on the trails here I found a will for Tho. Green of Maldon made in 1671 and was proved 1672 and I think this might be this Thomas. He has an Elizabeth for a wife, a daughter Elizabeth, and a son Thomas.

Hope this IS helping lol-- Stephi Tree

posted by [Living Martin]
Cochoit-2 Joe Cochoit
Are you seeing the will of Thomas Green of Malden who died 13 February 1672?

Middlesex County, MA: Probate File Papers, 1648-1871. Probate 9841. Made 13th 12mo 1671 (13 Feb 1671/2); proved 2nd 2 1672 (2 Apr 1672).

This will says his wife is Rebecca with children Rebecca, Hannah, Thomas and Samuel.

posted by Joe Cochoit
[Living Martin]
Yes Joe Thanks for that correction. Yes. I think you might be right; I too have been researching and trying to figure out why, if any, reason at all this couple is associated with Dr. John Green of Bowridge Hill I believe because genetically speaking they appear to be... any way, I am now kind of more and more leaning toward agreement with everyone else... I guess my anxiety was surrounding make more mistakes than ever and I guess I should be less concerned about such a thing, especially when I am mistaken, whoa! If you all are saying there in no reason to believe this person had a 1605 birthdate, then you have shown why that is the case I believe. Sometimes it's hard to type out everything that you are thinking I guess. Thanks for your help and input.
posted by [Living Martin]
GeneJ X
Thomas Green (1606-1667), Leicestershire to Malden is surely just an inferior, outdated record of Thomas Green (1599/1600-1667), Toppesfield to Malden..

About Thomas Green (1606-1667), Leicestershire to Malden, see Samuel Stillman Greene, A genealogical sketch of the descendants of Thomas Green(e) of Malden, Mass. (Boston, Mass. : H. W. Dutton. 1858), 8; digital images, InternetArchive.

"Thomas Greene was born in England, probably about 1606, There are reasons for supposing that he came from Leicestershire, but no proof of the fact … He m. 1. Elizabeth _____ … 2. Frances Cooke … the widow of Richard Cook … [Thomas Greene] died Dec. 19, 1667. His Will, dated Nov. 12, 1667; proved Jan. 15, 1667-8 ; recorded Midd. Prob. 5:297.."

About Thomas Green (1599/1600-1667), Toppesfield to Malden, see Dean Crawford Smith, Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed., The ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908 in 4 parts (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-310 (Green), at 300; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).

Edited to add: I see now that Joe has already posted the notice of these particulars.

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
GeneJ X
Have posted this in a "Disputed Identity and Associations" section on the profile of Elizabeth (Lynde) Green (1607-1658)

Identity. The profile of Elizabeth Lynde aka Swindells Green combines elements of what seem three different Elizabeths.

  • The death information reported is otherwise that of Elizabeth (_____) Green,[1] second wife of the Massachusetts Bay immigrant, Thomas Green (1599/1600-1667), son of William. The immigrant Thomas Green died at Malden, 1667,[2] leaving a will dated 22 November 1667.[3]
  • The marriage information is, at least in part, attributable to Elizabeth Swindells, a spinster, who married at Prestbury, Cheshire, England, 5 July 1627, John Greene, by license dated 26 June 1627.[4][5][6][7]
  • Then also various claimed information about an "Elizabeth Lynde," which refers to birth, marriage/spouse and possible parentage notions, some of which seems confused and none of which has been supported by historical records.

Associations. She was reported the wife of Massachusetts Bay immigrant, but her husband was described as a different Thomas Green. Elizabeth Lynde's husband was described as someone baptized at Herfordshire, 1600, son of John Greene Sr. (1575-) and Ann Almey (Scargell) Greene (1579-1609). By contrast, the immigrant Thomas Green was baptized Toppesfield, Essex, 1599/1600, the son of William.[8][9][10]

Planned 2021 profile updates. Elizabeth Lynde will be severed as the wife of Massachusetts Bay immigrant, Thomas Green (1599/1600-1667). Reference to Elizabeth Lynde's death at Malden will be removed. See the 2021 G2G, Proposal to sever Elizabeth (Lynde) Swindells marriage to PGM Thomas Green.

[1] "Births, Marriages and Deaths in Malden, Massachusetts" Vital Records from the New England Historical and Genealogical Register. Vol. 10 p. 163.

[2] Citing "Malden VR 346," Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed, The Ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908, in 4 parts, (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-304, at 300; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).

[3] Citing "Middlesex Probate 5:270-275, also original papers in #9840," Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed, The Ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908, in 4 parts, (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-304, at 301-302; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).

[4] Greene-Swindells 1627 marriage, James Croston, ed., Record Society for the Publication of Original Documents relating to Lancashire and Cheshire, 109 vols. ([S.l.] : The Society, 1879-1965), 5 (Prestbury 1560-1636):260; digital images, Hathi Trust.

[5] Greene-Swindels 1627 marriage, "Parish registers for Prestbury, Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1560-1636, 1637-1685 ..." in "England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000"; images, FamilySearch, courtesy of Cheshire Record Office; FHL film 2093600 DGS 4018873, image 131 of 481.

[6] Green-Swindells 1627 marriage license, William Ferguson Irvine, ed., Marriage Licences in the Diocese of Chester 1624-1632, 8 vols. ([Edinburgh & London] : Printed for the Society, 1907-1924), in The Record Society for the Publication of Original Documents related to Lancashire and Cheshire 3 (vol. 57):98; digital images, Hathi Trust.

[7] Greene-Swindles 1627 marriage license, "Marriage licences, 1624-1631, 1639-1644, 1661-1673" in "England, Cheshire, Marriage Bonds and Allegations, 1606-1900"; database and images, FamilySearch (database, indexed as Johnem Greene and Elizabetham Swindles, 26 Jun 1627) and FamilySearch (digital image, Latin), courtesy of Cheshire Record Office, Chester, FHL film 1,885,391, DGS 4,018,557, image 118 of 285 (sixth entry, verso).

[8] Dean Crawford Smith and Melinde Lutz Sanborn, ed, The Ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908, in 4 parts, (Boston : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2000), (4) 293-304, at 300; digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).

[9] H. B. Barnes and Philip Morant, The register of baptisms, marriages and burials at St. Margaret's, Toppesfield Parish, Essex Co., England : 1559-1650 ... (Topsfield, Mass. : Merrill Press, 1905), 7; InternetArchive.

[10] Thomas Green 1599 baptism, "Baptisms, 1559-1692; burials, 1560-1689; marriages, 1598-1690" in "Parish registers for Toppesfield"; digital image, FamilySearch, FHL film 857,071, Item 5, DGS 4,298,449, image 539 of 615 (recto).

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
GeneJ X
Do we know how Smith and Sanborn came to claim that the Mary mentioned in her father' will was not the same Mary baptized Toppesfield, 1625? (Smith and Sanborn suggest the daughter mentioned in Thomas' will was "born say 1647.")


I find this to be a conflict, especially as the authors write, "It is possible that Elizabeth and Mary, whom we presume were the two daughters who already had their portions, as mentioned in Thomas' will, were married into Malden families soon after the Greens arrival." (page 301)

posted on Greene-9726 (merged) by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
Hill-11959 S (Hill) Willson
That is an excellent question. I haven't seen a death record for the daughter Mary, around the same time as her mother's death, nor have I seen further mention of her.
posted on Greene-9726 (merged) by S (Hill) Willson
GeneJ X
It may make sense to follow Smith and Sanborn in the child list, but add the possible conflict as a research note.

Ditto, to the profile of Mary, bap. 1625. There is no profile yet for the second Mary. But we could add that easily and include a research note.

posted on Greene-9726 (merged) by GeneJ X
GeneJ X
Thank you for supporting WikiTree.

Cross posting here and on G2G.

This is a proposal to sever the association between PGM Thomas Green and "Elizabeth (Lynde) Swindells."

As I understand it, Elizabeth (Lynde) Swidells is a compilation, developed by taking some, but not all of the information about one person, Elizabeth Swidells, and combining it with some, but not all of the information about another, Elizabeth Lynde. See the G2G comment.

Despite extensive independent research and many, many exchanges on G2G, no one has been able to identify contemporaneous, historical records that associate either person, Elizabeth Swindells or Elizabeth Lynde, with Thomas Greene (1599/1600-1667), early Massachusetts Bay immigrant.

Once this marriage has been severed, a considerable amount of additional work will be needed to restore the historical record about the immigrant, Thomas Greene (1599/1600-1667), son of William.

Again, thank you for supporting WikiTree. --Gene

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
Hill-11959 S (Hill) Willson
Perhaps I am missing something, but is there a reliable source showing his parents were John and Ann?
posted by S (Hill) Willson
GeneJ X
The work to sort out conflicts following a recent merge are underway. Please be patient, as this may take a while.--Gene
posted by GeneJ X
[Living Martin]
Green-4391 and Green-133 do not represent the same person because: Thomas Green-133 should be connected to Elizabeth Lynde Swindells of Malden, Mass. The other Thomas/Elizabeth seem to be about a decade older but also from England and sailed to America, but that is where the similarities end. I'm not sure what happened here, but a lot of profiles got mixed up and confused.
posted by [Living Martin]
Brad Stauf
[Comment Deleted]
posted by Brad Stauf
deleted by Brad Stauf
[Living Martin]
Yes, I had approved the other Thomas Green merge before realizing you had changed a lot of the data on the profiles to match one another... I believe the other Thomas Green that you just merged into this one was an error as well. The history of this profile is not the Toppesfield, England Greens. Thank you for your offering to change it, yes I think that is necessary: Please undo what you did regarding this family, including restoring the previous data and bio fields. I will add the sources to it after it has been fixed. This couple should be disassociated from the Christian ____ mother (he may have had a father named William but not the William indicated with the biography you have used to follow this lineage around... the issue is that both families are associated with Malden, Mass and so please in the future make sure it's the right Thomas and correct William and proper Elizabeth before assuming the are the same people: there were many of these names in the area at that time. As well as some of the children involved... you can utilize the "changes" tab to fix any assumptions made.
posted by [Living Martin]
Johnson-43462 Leigh Anne (Johnson) Dear
Tina, he's also my direct ancestor. As earlier mentioned this profile needs a peer review. For example, the 'facts' haven't been cross-referenced to the sources which makes it very difficult to verify the bio. In looking at primary source vital records I'm already noticing a few issue. For example:

Green Thomas Sr. (-1667) & 2/wf Frances WHEELER Cook (1608-), w Isaac, w Richard; m. 5 Sep 1659, 5 Jul; Malden/Charlestown.

Source: Torry, Clarence A. New England Marriages Prior to 1700; pg. 323. Baltimore, MD, USA: Genealogical Publishing Co., 2004.

posted by Leigh Anne (Johnson) Dear
edited by Leigh Anne (Johnson) Dear
Baldwin-3428 Carol Baldwin PhD RN
Green-133 should be listed as part of the PGM project. He arrived on the Planter in 1635/6. Thank you! Carol Baldwin (Baldwin-3428)
posted by Carol Baldwin PhD RN
Thornton-1836 Jeanie (Thornton) Roberts
According to Anderson the Thomas Greene who arrived in 1635 aboard the Planter, was a 15 year old boy, giving him a DOB around 1620. Anderson says he is not the Thomas Greene of Maldon who arrived 1639-1644.
posted by Jeanie (Thornton) Roberts
[Living Baker]
This profile should be updated with the most recent peer reviewed source. These are the wrong parents. There is no evidence for the maiden name of either wife. He also had a third wife. His birth date and place are wrong. See Smith, Dean Crawford, and Melinde Lutz Sanborn. The Ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton 1878-1908. (Boston, Massachusetts: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1996-2008), Part 4 p 300+ Thomas1 Green, 1996.

Thomas1 Green bp 3 FEB 1599 Toppesfield, Essex, England son of William(A) Green grandson of Thomas(B) Green. He died 19 Dec 1667 • Malden, Middlesex, Massachusetts. He married three times 1) Mary Smith 28 Jun 1627 • St Nicholas, Colchester, Essex, England 2) Elizabeth Unknown 1630 • Colchester, Essex, England and 3) Francis Unknown 5 Sep 1659 • Malden, Middlesex, M

posted by [Living Baker]
Holland-5579 Zoiya (Holland) Tate
*Thomas Greene in entry for Henery Greene, "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"

[1] (Citation) "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JWKM-TQK : 30 December 2014), Thomas Greene in entry for Henery Greene, 13 Jan 1639; citing TOPPESFIELD,ESSEX,ENGLAND, reference ; FHL microfilm 0962531 IT 7.

posted by Zoiya (Holland) Tate
Adams-16917 Marj Adams
Rick, I left the merged bio by Dick (which I merged) as it was; referring to you to combine or not.
posted by Marj Adams
Ashley-1950 Chase Ashley
It is doubtful that Thomas arrived on the Planter in 1635. There was a Thomas Greene on the Planter, but the passenger list says he was 15 years old at the time. http://winthropsociety.com/ships/planter.htm
posted by Chase Ashley
Wayne Burnie
Green-202 and Green-133 appear to represent the same person because: They have same daughter
posted by Wayne Burnie

Rejected matches › Thomas Green (abt.1611-aft.1635) › Thomas Green Sr. (abt.1635-abt.1714) › Thomas Greene › Thomas Green (abt.1598-) › Thomas Green (1615-1670) › Thomas Greenway (abt.1601-) › Thomas Green (-1674) › Thomas Green (bef.1600-1667)

Featured National Park champion connections: Thomas is 12 degrees from Theodore Roosevelt, 19 degrees from Stephanus Johannes Paulus Kruger, 10 degrees from George Catlin, 11 degrees from Marjory Douglas, 21 degrees from Sueko Embrey, 10 degrees from George Grinnell, 25 degrees from Anton Kröller, 11 degrees from Stephen Mather, 19 degrees from Kara McKean, 12 degrees from John Muir, 14 degrees from Victoria Hanover and 24 degrees from Charles Young on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.

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Categories: Malden, Massachusetts | Puritan Great Migration Other Head of Household | Puritan Great Migration