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John Hamilton (abt. 1473 - abt. 1540)

John Hamilton
Born about [location unknown]
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died about at about age 67 [location unknown]
Profile last modified | Created 13 Mar 2013
This page has been accessed 3,202 times.
Scottish Clans
John Hamilton was a prominent member of a Scottish Clan.
Join: Scotland Project
Discuss: Scotland
Preceded by
N/A
1st of Broomhill
1473 - 1550
Succeeded by
David Hamilton

Contents

Biography

John Hamilton is a member of Clan Hamilton.


Birth

John Hamilton was born before 4 Feb 1473-74, the eldest natural son of James Hamilton, Lord Hamilton, 1st Lord of Broomhill, Lord of Cadzow, and Janet Calderwood, a daughter of Calderwood of that Ilk. [1][2][3][4]

He was included in the entail of the Hamilton estates by the first Earl of Arran, on the 16th January 1512-13, and had legitimation under the great seal four days afterwards. [3][5][6]

He was legitimated by James IV on 20 January 1512/3, becoming presumptively 2nd in line of succession to his half-brother the 1st Earl of Arran.[7][2]

He married, firstly, Janet Hamilton, daughter of Sir Robert Hamilton of Preston and Fingaltoun. [1][8][3][5][6]

Children of John Hamilton and Janet Hamilton

  1. David, his heir. [1][5][6][9]
  2. John. succeeded his brother[5][6][9]
  3. Gawin,[10] went to Ireland[6][9]
  4. Quintin,[10] burgess of Hamilton[6][9]
  5. Janet, m. John Hamilton of Neilsland[6][9]
  6. Margaret, married to Gawln Hamilton of Raploch, Commendator of Kilwinning [1][3][10][6][9]
  7. Isabella, married, first, to Cuthbert Hamilton of Candor ; secondly, to Robert Hamilton of Dalserf, both with issue.[10][6][11]

He married, secondly, Margaret Dalzell, daughter of Dalziel of that Ilk. [3][12]

Child of John Hamilton and Margaret Dalzell

  1. Robert. of Allanshaw, the founder of a family of that name, which subsisted for some time at Allanshaw in the parish of Hamilton.[10][3]

Death

John Hamilton died before 15 Sep 1540. [1][4][13]

Research Notes

  1. Janet Home married, sometime after 24 August 1531, Sir John Hamilton of Samuelston and Clydesdale, the natural son of James Hamilton, 1st earl of Arran.[1][14][15] She has been detached as the wife of John Hamilton, the subject of this profile, who was actually the natural brother of her husband's natural father.
  2. Scots Peerage which places John as the son by the second wife.[3]
  3. Birnie says he died in Aug 1526[16] and Scot Peerage says circa 1550 when briefly mentioning him in the section on Lord Belhaven[3] but agrees with Johnston.[4] in the section on the Duke of Hamilton. [1] The Register of the Great Seal of Scotland seems to put the question to rest.[13]

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 Paul, James Balfour, Sir. The Scots Peerage: Founded on Wood’s Edition of Sir Robert Douglas’s Peerage of Scotland; Containing an Historical and Genealogical Account of the Nobility of That Kingdom. Vol. 4. Edinburgh: D. Douglas, 1904-1914. p. 353., citing, "John, the son of a lady named Janet Calderwood, is described as eldest natural son of Lord Hamilton on 4 February 1473-74, when his father granted to him, with remainder to his brothers Patrick and David, the lands of the upper part of Machanmuir, Broomhill, and Silvertonhill. He is also named in a charter of entail, dated 17 January 1512-13, and four days later King James iv. granted a very full legitimation to him and his brother Sir Patrick, making them heirs of entail to their brother the first Earl of Arran. The date of his death is uncertain, but it apparently took place before 1540."
  2. 2.0 2.1 Cokayne, George Edward, "The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom", London: St. Catherine Press, 1912, Ed. 2 Vol II, Archive.org, p. 93, footnote 'a', citing, "This Sir James was great grandson of John H. of Broomhill, who was one of the numerous bastards of James, ist Lord Hamilton [S.], and, consequently, an illegit. br. of James, ist Earl of Arran [S.]. The said John H. was, however, legitimated under the Great Seal [S.] 20 Jan. 15 12/3."
  3. 3.0 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4 3.5 3.6 3.7 Paul, James Balfour. "The Scots Peerage : founded on Wood's ed. of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom", Edinburgh: David Douglas,1905, Vol. II, Archive.org, p. 38
  4. 4.0 4.1 4.2 Johnston, George Harvey, "The heraldry of the Hamiltons : with notes on all the males of the family, description of the arms, plates and pedigrees", Edinburgh: W. & A. K. Johnston, LTD, 1909, Archive.org, p. 36
  5. 5.0 5.1 5.2 5.3 Anderson, John, Historical and Genealogical Memoirs of the House of Hamilton, Edinburgh: John Anderson, 1825, Archive.org, p. 249
  6. 6.0 6.1 6.2 6.3 6.4 6.5 6.6 6.7 6.8 Anderson, John, Historical and Genealogical Memoirs of the House of Hamilton, Edinburgh: John Anderson, 1825, Archive.org, p. 425
  7. Historic MSS Commission. Manuscripts of the Duke of Hamilton. London: Eyre and Spottiswoode (1887), p. 20., no. 27 Letters of Legitimation by James IV.
  8. Birnie, John, "Account of the Families of Birnie and Hamilton of Broomhill", Edinburgh: private, 1838., Archive.org, p. 14
  9. 9.0 9.1 9.2 9.3 9.4 9.5 Birnie, John, "Account of the Families of Birnie and Hamilton of Broomhill", Edinburgh: private, 1838., Archive.org, p. 15
  10. 10.0 10.1 10.2 10.3 10.4 Anderson, John, Historical and Genealogical Memoirs of the House of Hamilton, Edinburgh: John Anderson, 1825, Archive.org, p. 250
  11. Birnie, John, "Account of the Families of Birnie and Hamilton of Broomhill", Edinburgh: private, 1838., Archive.org, p. 19
  12. Paul, James Balfour. "The Scots Peerage : founded on Wood's ed. of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom", Edinburgh: David Douglas,1905, Vol. II, Archive.org, p. 404
  13. 13.0 13.1 Reg. Mag. Sig., "Registrum magni sigilli regum Scotorum : The register of the Great seal of Scotland, A.D. 1513-1546 published by the authority of the Lords commissioners of H.M. Treasury.", Edinburgh: General Register House, 1883, Vol. 3., Archive.org, p. 499, no. 2201
  14. Twelfth Rep. Hist. MSS. Com, App. viii, 162, cited in Paul, Sir James Balfour. The Scots Peerage. Edinburgh: D. Douglas (1907), vol.4, p.456.
  15. Anderson, John. Historical and Genealogical Memoirs of the House of Hamilton. Edinburgh: by the author (1825), p. 84.
  16. Birnie, John, "Account of the Families of Birnie and Hamilton of Broomhill", Edinburgh: private, 1838., Archive.org, p. 20




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Comments: 16

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I will be updating this profile on behalf of the Scotland Project using Scotland - Profile Standards, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Scotland_-_Profile_Standards.

Please be patient while this is being done, and if you have new sources to share, please message me or post here.

Thank you,

Clyde, for the Scotland Project

posted on Hamilton-23545 (merged) by Clyde Perkins
It has been decided, again, that John Hamilton and John Hamilton, 1st of Broomhill are not the same person. It would be helpful if the parents were removed from this John Hamilton. He was not the son of James Hamilton and Janet Calderwood. Declining the merge is one thing, leaving the parents the same just causes the "confusion" to continue. This John Hamilton has the sources for the other John Hamilton, has the same images. Merging them would make sense, but if not, then keeping them with the same parents and inferring he is the 1st of Broomhill really just confuses the issue. I don't care which decision is made, but I believe this profile should be cleared of the information connecting him as the same person as the other. If there were other sources, then just cleaning up the biography would be sufficient.

This request has gone on and on for 3 years. At least remove the parents. The wife has already been removed. Remove the sources stating he is the 1st of Broomhill as it has been determined he is not. He may be a cousin, nephew, etc., but he does not have these parents or that title.

Thank you very much.

posted by Debra (Adams) Akin
The marriage with Margaret Dalzell should be disputed (I'm not pre 1500 or I would add it myself)

This John, 1st of Broomhill appears to have been conflated with his son John 3rd of Broomhill [Hamilton-19079] between various sources. It has now been suggested that **IF** there was a "of Broomhill John" partnership with a Margaret Dalzell (Dalziel) "purportedly the mother of the Allanshaw Hamiltons?" it is more likely to have been John 3rd she was married to. However no trace of a Hamilton/Dalzell marriage has been found.

I've popped what I can into a Gedcom and as near as I can figure with the information that is out there, then Margaret Dalzell would have been born about 1530 which again would add weight to her not being a partner of this John (born before 1473).. not impossible I know but.. She cannot be a daughter of Carnwath as some sites/profiles (even here on WT) quote her as the Carnwath title was not created until 1639

ref. Robert (or otherwise of Allanshaw) their ancestry is clouded and I wonder if this Dalzell/Hamilton partnership isn't a fabricated attempt to "connect" them directly?.. I suspect that there would be truth in the rumour about the Allanshaws being descended from the Broomhills however perhaps it was via a Broomhill daughter?

The wife Janet Hamilton of this John outlived him by quite a few years and may have had a 2nd marriage herself but there is no reason (conclusive anyway) to presume that this John had any illegitimate's

Again pure conjecture but just a thought, there were quite a few Robert Hamiltons of Dalserf which could have spawned the Allanshaws , the Dalserf ancestry is also cloudy but does link to Broomhill as Dalserf was in the Parish of Broomhill. I would venture to suggest that any connection between "Robert of Allanshaw" and "John of Broomhill" is via a Broomhill daughter and/or a Dalserf marriage

however I would not be linking Margaret Dalzell to this John, neither as a spouse or a partner .. if anything it would a prtner of his son John 3rd, and even then that's not an official partner ..

John 3rd (about 1520?) married Elizabeth, Heiress of Udston in 1557, that would have made him a little old for that to be his first marriage so perhaps he did have a liaison with Margaret Dalzell first? The Udston marriage would have been the most important hence the son of that marriage (Claud) carrying on the Broomhill title?

just popping it out there :D

posted on Hamilton-23545 (merged) by ClaireSuzy (Darragh) C
I am not going to address all of the conjecture but rather simply say that it was not until Robert Dalzel (b. 1612) that one sees Carnwarth entering prominently into the picture as he was elevated to the First Earl of Carnwarth in 1639. He currently shows as grandnephew to Margaret placing her two generations earlier all according to Scots Peerage. Granted SP does not make this union as confident as some would like but it does reference the registry of deeds and the years do not seem to be so far off based on this reliable secondary source (albeit, not infallible).
posted on Hamilton-23545 (merged) by [Living Anderson]
I will be changing the spouse per the research note in Hamilton-4841 if there is no objection.
posted on Hamilton-23545 (merged) by [Living Anderson]
Hamilton-4469 and Hamilton-23545 are not ready to be merged because: Research needed to clarify children & spouse/partners. Research request made to all Scotland Project pre-1500 members.
posted on Hamilton-23545 (merged) by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
Hamilton-23545 and Hamilton-4469 appear to represent the same person because: Same person, same bio, same parents, etc.
posted on Hamilton-23545 (merged) by Debra (Adams) Akin
Hamilton-23545 and Hamilton-4469 do not represent the same person because: not merging - birth dates different and death place different
posted on Hamilton-23545 (merged) by Truly Campbell
Hamilton-23545 and Hamilton-4469 appear to represent the same person because: Same parents, same biography, same title. Either they should be merged or the data separated as to the correct 1st of Broomhill with the correct parents. Please.
posted on Hamilton-23545 (merged) by Debra (Adams) Akin
A request for Scotland Project pre-1500 member assistance. There is a merge that needs attention on these two profiles, Hamilton-4469 and Hamilton-23545. Both clearly represent the son of James Hamilton Janet Calderwood. There is a fair amount of conflicting or inconsistent information in the sources (date of birth; date of death; and the different sets of children) that needs to be sorted through, and decisions made about the spouses & children. Do we have a willing pre-1500 member who would be able to step up and help? Prefereably a = Disputed = section should be the goal which would include information about spouses/partners and children are not attached to the profile with source information that will help explain the controversies.

His mother needs to be disconnected as the wife of his father (she was his mother, but he was an illegitimate son so his parents were not married to each other). One of the profiles gives his wife as Elizabeth Hamilton, dau. of Patrick Hamilton and widow of John Hamilton of Neilsland. At least one source says that John Hamilton of Neilsland was married to Janet Hamilton (supposedly a *daughter* of the subject of our merge). Depending on what source you look at, his children were David, John, Gavin, Quentin, Janet, Margaret and Isabella. Each of his daughters married a Hamilton (sometimes they married TWO Hamiltons). The Hamilton Genealogy says he died in August 1526, our two profiles list 1540 and 1546. Also, if these dates were correct, the wife Elizabeth on profile #2 would have been about 35 years younger than her husband (not impossible, but....). In short, these profiles are a challenge and need work.

Who's up to a true challenge? Volunteers?

posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
Hi Bobbie am a bit late to seeing this I was abut to propose a merge and realised the "issues" - so I'll take a look, though am not pre1500, I enjoy a Scottish puzzle :D

It appears at first glance (aside from the confusion with all the same named couples) that there could be a generational difference? with Margaret Dalziel or Dalzell being the 2nd wife of this John's son?

I've already got a Hamilton gedcom started (more for the ones that went to Ireland) so I'll keep this family(ies!) on my radar

my main source for these Hamilton's is now Stirnet as hey have done a lot of work in comparing and combining the different memoirs/sources (including the most recent 1993 publication "HamiltonHistory", by Lt. Col. George Hamilton, not to be confused with "History of the House of Hamiltons") and I think I read the Peter Barnes-Graham the sites author, has a vested in the Hamilton's so I'm sure he's done his homework :D .. anyway its' a site I trust as it will point out when there is inconsistencies even within the combined "official" sources

This is the biggest clue that even the Hamilton's are not sure:

"m2. Margaret Dalzell (daughter of Robert Dalzell of that ilk) HJHeraldry follows Anderson's first version (p250) in showing this marriage with issue. Anderson's second version (p425+) does not mention it. Strangely, 'HamiltonHistory' which mentions that John "is said to have married a second wife" (mother of Robert of Allansahaw) and reports that "of this (marriage) no evidence has been found", does not point out that Margaret Dalzell (identified by TSP as "said to have" been his 2nd wife) was probably 2nd wife of his son John. However, 'HamiltonHistory' does suggest that this John's (1st) wife (Janet Hamilton) died some years after John, and that she may have m2. John Carmichael of Ednam, so this marriage must be viewed as wrong."

They say "strangely" because "HamiltonHistory" is in the main supposed to now be the "go to" as it has cleared up a lot of inconsistencies from previous assumptions.. anyway It looks like this one very likely won't be definively provable

While there are no marriages on this profile [4469] "both" of the marriages are shown on [23545] and it seems the Dalzell one should possibly be a marriage of his son's?

anyway in short I'll take a look, but if anyone else is doing or has done some looking into this please feel free to message me to share/save us double working, or just to collaborate on what we've come up with :D

posted by ClaireSuzy (Darragh) C
Please see research notes. Unless there is any objection, Janet Home will be detached as the wife of John Hamilton.

Jen

posted by Jen (Stevens) Hutton
[deleted]
As for the confusion concerning the Hamilton Y-DNA and the Douglas Y-DNA.

In one instance of the Douglas Y-DNA: Y-DNA I-L338 for all of Walter Hamilton of Darngaber's male line? Possibly. (my early Great-grandfather, on my grandMother's side) Y-DNA is possibly I-Y6635 per Descendent of Walter Hamilton of Darngaber, (potentially one of my FTDNA matches). BOTH I-L338 (also known as I1a2a1a1a) and related I-Y6635 (also known as I1a3a1a1a1, Parent Branch: I-Y6624) are of Haplogroup I-M253 also known as I1 (a Y chromosome haplogroup). I-L338 is a well-known Haplogroup of the Douglases.

Walter Hamilton of Darngaber (not "of Cadzow") BIRTH 1392 • Cadzow, Lanarkshire, Scotland, DEATH 20 MAY 1441 • Trabzon, Trabzon, Turkey and his descendants were descended from the Douglases and not the Hamiltons.

Sources:

http://dgmweb.net/DNA/Thompson/ThompsonDNA-results.html

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Douglas?iframe=yresults

http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=21060

https://haplogroup.org/ystory/i-y6635/

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/g/a/gah4/HamDNA/B1.pdf

(And it is not unreasonable to, at least, consider the uncle of Walter Hamilton (of Darngarber, not "of Cadzow"), John Hamilton of Fingalton as not being a Hamilton either as their Y-DNA has been compared. Assumptions to the contrary are very risky.)

posted by [deleted]

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Categories: Scotland Project Managed Clan Profiles | Clan Hamilton