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Gwilym ap Thomas (abt. 1385 - 1445)

Sir Gwilym (William) "Lord Ragland, The Blue Knight of Gwent" ap Thomas aka Herbert
Born about in Monmouthshire, Walesmap
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married before 1420 in Walesmap
Husband of — married 1421 in Bredwardine, Herefordshire, Englandmap
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 60 in London, Englandmap
Profile last modified | Created 21 Nov 2011
This page has been accessed 13,780 times.
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Note: Two of Sir William's sons adopted "Herbert" as a surname in his lifetime. The Last Name at Birth (LNAB) for this profile is correct as "ap Thomas" - see Welsh Patronymic Naming Guidance. Although Sir William ap Thomas did not use Herbert in his lifetime, that name has been added to the "Other Last Names" field to aid identification.

Contents

Biography

Sir William Herbert, called William ap Thomas, only son and heir,[1] seated at Ragland Castle, and called by the Welsh Margoah Gles, or Gumrhi, made Kt. Banneret, 1415 married Gladys, dau. and heir of Sir David Gamm, Kt., and widow of Sir Roger Vaughan, Kt. There appears to be no record of his birth.

"Thomas's fifth son, William or Gwilym ap Thomas, who died about 1446, was the first man of the family to make any figure in history. This Gwilim ap Thomas was steward of the lordships of Usk and Caerleon under Richard, Duke of York. Legend makes him a knight on the field of Agincourt, but his knighthood belongs to the year 1426. He appears to have married twice, his first wife being Elizabeth Bluet of Raglan, widow of Sir James Berkeley, and his second daughter of David Gam, a valiant Welsh acquire slain at Agincourt. Royal favor enriched Sir William, and he was able to buy Raglan Castle from the Lord Berkeley, his first wife's son, the deed, which remains among the Beaufort muniments, refuting the pedigree-maker's statement that he inherited the castle as heir of his mother Maude daughter of Sir John Morley.[2]

"The current Raglan Castle was begun by Sir William ap Thomas, the lesser son of a minor Welsh family who rose through the ranks of mid-15th century politics, profiting from the benefits of the local offices he held. William married first Elizabeth, a wealthy heiress, and then Gwladus ap Thomas, another heiress who would prove to be a powerful regional figure in her own right. In 1432 William purchased the manor of Raglan, where he had already been staying as a tenant, for 1,000 marks (£666) and commenced a programme of building work that established the basic shape of the castle as seen today, although most of it — with the exception of the South Gate and the Great Tower — was later built over.

"William's son dropped the Welsh version of his name, calling himself William Herbert.[6] He continued to rise in prominence, supporting the House of York during the War of the Roses, fighting in the Hundred Years War in France but making his fortune from the Gascon wine trade. He was also closely associated with Welsh politics and status, being the first Welshman to be made an earl and being described by contemporary poets as the "national deliverer" who might achieve Welsh independence. In the 1460s William used his increasing wealth to remodel Raglan on a much grander scale. The symbolism of the castle architecture may have reflected the Welsh family roots — historian Matthew Johnson has suggested that the polygonal towers were possibly designed to imitate those of Caernarvon Castle, whose architecture carries numerous allusions to the eventual return of a Roman Emperor to Wales. The resulting castle was what historian Anthony Emery has described as one of the "last formidable displays of medieval defensive architecture"." (Ref: Geni - Sir Thomas ap Gwyllym - accessed 12 Dec 2014)

Marriages

"Elizabeth [Bluet] married (4th) before 1420 (as his 1st wife) William ap Thomas ap Gwilym, Knt., of Raglan... They had no issue."[3][4]

According to Douglas Richardson, William's first wife, Elizabeth Bluet, was of "full age" in 1377. She married four times and died before 25 July 1425.[4]

  1. Bartholomew Picot (died 1388)[3]
  2. James Berkeley (died 13 June 1405)[3]
  3. Thomas ap Harry (will proved 4 April 1416)[3]
  4. William ap Thomas ap Gwilym (before 1420)[3]

After Elizabeth's death, William married (2) "Gwladus ferch Dafydd, widow of Roger Vaughan, Knt., of Tretower, Breckonshire (died 1415) and daughter of Dafydd Gam, Knt., by whom he was the father of William Herbert, K.G., 1st Earl of Pembroke (died 1469).... In 1430, he purchased the manor and lordship of Raglan, Monmouthshire from his step-son James Berkeley for 100 marks. Sir William ap Thomas died in 1446, and was buried in the Priory church of Abergavenny, Wales."[4]

Husband: William ap Thomas
Wife: Gwladus ferch Dafydd
Child: William Herbert
Marriage:
Date: ABT 1421
Place: Bredwardine, Herefordshire, England

William died in London in 1445 and his body was brought back to Wales. William's wife, Gwladys, died in 1454. Gwladys and William were patrons of Abergavenny Priory where they were both buried; their alabaster tomb and effigies can still be seen in the church of St Mary's.[5]

You can see a picture of the grave monument at St. Mary's Priory Church, Abergavenny, for William and his wife Gwladys at Monuments.

Children

He had no children by his first wife, Elizabeth Bluet. By his second wife, Gwladus ferch Dafydd Gam, Knt.,[4] he had...
  • Sir William, Earl of Pembroke (assumed the surname Herbert),[6] married Anne Devereux (and had at least two mistresses), died 1469[7]
  • Sir Richard of Coldbrook (assumed the surname Herbert),[6] married Margred ferch Thomas ap Gruffudd (and had at least two mistresses)[7]
  • Elizabeth, married the son of Edward Stradling,[7] Henry (or Harry) Stradling, Knt., son and heir, born about 1412-22.... They had two sons, Thomas, Esq., and Charles, and two daughters, Elizabeth (wife of Richard ap Jenkin) and Jane (wife of Miles Parry [or ap Harry]). Sir Henry Stradling died in 1476.[8]
  • Margred, married Sir Henry Wogan[7]

bio from merged profile

Merged 11 November 2023 - both had extensive biographies. Following is the biography from Thomas-16165 prior to the merge.

William Ap Thomas was the member of a minor Welsh gentry family and was responsible for beginning the construction of Raglan Castle as we recognize it today. He obtained Raglan through his marriage to Elizabeth Bloet, widow of Sir James Berkeley shortly after 1406. When Elizabeth died in 1420, Ap Thomas retained Raglan as a tenant of his step-son James, Lord Berkeley, and in 1425 Lord Berkeley agreed that he could continue to hold Raglan for the duration of his life.

William married for a second time, and chose another heiress, Gwladus. She was the daughter of Sir Dafydd Gam and the widow of Sir Roger Vaughan. Both these men had been part of the Welsh contingent that fought with King Henry V in France, and both were at the battle of Agincourt, where William Ap Thomas had also fought. In 1426, Ap Thomas was knighted by Henry VI, becoming known to his compatriots as Y marchog glas o Went (the blue knight of Gwent). Gradmaclly he began to establish himself as a person of consequence in south Wales.

By 1432 William was in a position to purchase the manor of Raglan from the Berkeleys for about L667 and it was probably from this time that he began to build the castle as we know it. His building programme eventually swept away most of the original structures. The principal buildings surviving from this time are the Great Tower (left) a self-contained fortress in its own right, together with the south gate, both equipped with gunloops. He also raised the hall, though later largely rebuilt, and part of the service range beyond. Two sources indicate that William Ap Thomas was the builder of the keep. One of which is a contemporary poem praising Ap Thomas, mentioning the tower at Raglan which "stands above all other buildings." There is also a reference to Sir William Thomas' tower from a family chronicle written by Sir Thomas Herbert of Tintern.

William Ap Thomas died in London in 1445, and his body was brought back to Wales to be buried in the Benedictine priory church at Abergavenny. His wife Gwladus (the star of Abergavenny), as she was hailed by the poet Lewys Glyn Cothi, died in 1454. William was succeeded by his eldest son, another William (d.1469) who took the surname Herbert.

10 known children across 4 marriages

Thomas-16165 had no footnotes, but had the following bulleted source list:
  • G.E. Cokayne, with Vicary Gibbs, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, 2000, Alan Sutton Publishing, 1910-1959; Gloucester, U.K.
  • Welsh Genealogies AD 1400-1500, Vol 3 - pp 86, 104; Vol 4 - pg 202; Vol 6 pp 378, 422, 425, 439; Vol 8 pg.
  • Wales Visitation, Vol 1 - pp 292-3, 295, 312; Vol 2 - pg 165; Vol 5- pp 740, 785. 790

Research Notes created from information in Thomas-16165 prior to the merge:

Raglan Castle: Apparently there are two different stories about how William Herbert ended up with Raglan Castle.
  • pg 271, " A Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire" by Sir Bernard Burke, published 1883
  • pg 164, "Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists etc" by Frederick Lewis Weiss, 6th Edition
Merged Profiles (11 November 2023): Thomas-16165 profile had birth in 1390 at Plas yn-y-berth-hir, Perthyre, Gwent, Wales while ap Thomas-10 had birth in 1385 at Monmouthshire, Wales. Death location was also different, with Thomas-16165 having Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, Wales and ap Thomas-10 having London, England.

Research Notes

False Lineage: A genealogy included in the book The Expedition to the Isle of Rhé by Edward Lord Herbert of Cherbury, K.B., shows a genealogy back to Charlemagne.[9] This genealogy has been proven to be false.[10]

Estimated Birth: Changed to c1385 based on the following on 28 October 2023 (previously was "before 1377", but without a source or explanation).

  • Bartrum says his father died in 1438.[11]
  • WikiTree says his father was born in 1356 but does not say which of the listed sources the date is from (as of 27 October 2023 - see Thomas ap Gwilym).
  • WikiTree has his mother's dates as born bef. 1369, married in 1392, and died in 1438 (as of 27 October 2023 - see Maud ferch John).
    • If 1369 is correct for Mawd's birth, and she was 15 when he was born, that puts his birth year at 1384 (and his father at 28). Sounds about right and fits with his first marriage in 1406 (per Wikipedia).[5]
The 1377 birth year is apparently from Burke's Peerage (from a list of children on his father's profile).[12] Genealogics had 1375 for his birth year.[13]
While he and Elizabeth Bluet had no children together, their estimated birth dates - c1385 for him and 1358 for her (as of 28 October 2023) - would seem to indicate that something is awry. Richardson says that she was "of full age in 1377",[3] which would put her birth at 1363 or 1365 (from a discussion in the comments for Wogan-11, full age for a Welsh woman of the time was 12 for marriage and 14 for inheriting land). She inherited the manor of Talgarth in 1384. Wikipedia says that when they married in 1406, she was William's first wife and that William was her third husband,[5] but that date is wrong, apparently based on the death of James in 1405. After James died, she married Thomas ap Harry (whose will was proved in 1416) before she married William. Richardson has her death as before 25 July 1425.[4] Wikipedia says she died in 1420.[5] The biography section of this profile has William's marriage to Gwladus as 1421 (but no source). Wikipedia does not give a marriage year for William's second marriage, but has his oldest son by Elizabeth as born in 1423.[5] Richardson also has his birth as c1423, but calls him the second son of William and Gwladus.[14]

Additional Children: As of 27 October 2023, the profiles Elizabeth (Herbert) Greville (1440-) and Dau Herbert (1429-) were attached as children of this William and his wife Gwladus. The latter has no sources. Comments on Elizabeth's profile note that she is the daughter of Herbert-63 and Turbeville-10.

Bartrum's chart for him - "Sir William Thomas of Rhaglan, d. 1446, Y Marchog Glas o Went"[7] - also lists a second daughter named Elsbeth (but not wife of Greville), as well as other children in addition to those listed above:

by a mistress
  • Gwenllian, married Gwilym ap Robert Wallis[7] (Mawd, a relative of Gwilym's, was one of Sir Richard's mistresses[15])
by his wife Gwladus, in addition to William, Richard, Elsbeth (m Stradling) and Margred:
  • Elsbeth, married Cadwgon ap Gr. Dwnn[7]
  • Jonet, married David Barry[7]
  • NN, married John Abrahall of Tretire, Ergyng[7]
  • Mawd, married Hywel Blaene[7]
by Cari Ddu, his mistress[7]
  • Thomas Herbert of Troy, s.p.[7]
  • John Herbert of Itton, d. 1469, married (1) NN f. Lewys ap Dd., (2) Catrin f. Wm Kemeys of Newport[7][16]
  • Olive, married Tos. Fleming[7]

Death: His biography above (citing Wikipedia) says that he died in London in 1445. The datafields for this profile prior to 27 October 2023 had his death in 1446 at "Raglan Castle, Usk, Monmouthshire, Wales". The Wikipedia article says his body was brought back to Wales for burial and that both he and his wife Gwladus are buried at St. Mary's Priory Church, Abergavenny.[5]

Sources

  1. Source for statement? The Bartrum chart for William's father (Godwin 5) shows several legitimate brothers and half-brothers, in addition to half-brother Ieuan by Thomas's mistress.
  2. Entered by Dallas Riedesel.
  3. 3.0 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4 3.5 Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, volume I, page 180 BERKELEY 8.
  4. 4.0 4.1 4.2 4.3 4.4 Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry, page 255, BERKELEY 10.
  5. 5.0 5.1 5.2 5.3 5.4 5.5 Wikipedia: William ap Thomas (accessed August 8, 2015)
  6. 6.0 6.1 Darrell Wolcott, "The Herbert Family Pedigree", Ancient Wales Studies.
  7. 7.00 7.01 7.02 7.03 7.04 7.05 7.06 7.07 7.08 7.09 7.10 7.11 7.12 7.13 Bartrum Chart: Godwin 8.
  8. Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, volume V, page 56 STRADLING 13.
  9. Herbert of Cherbury, Edward Herbert Baron. The expedition to the isle of Rhé. London: Whittingham, 1860. Open Library , Table I
  10. G. T. Clark. "Limbus Patrum Morganiae at Glamorganiae": Genealogy of the Older Families of Lordships Morgan and Glarmorgan. London: Wyman & Sons, 1886. ExLibris Rosetta , Page 250ff
  11. Bartrum Chart: Godwin 5.
  12. "A Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire" by Sir Bernard Burke, published 1883, page 217.
  13. John ap Gwilym Herbert, of Ytten.
  14. Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, volume II, page 388 HERBERT 12.
  15. Bartrum Chart: Wallis.
  16. See also the wikidata entry for John Gwillim Herbert - aka "John ap Gwillim Herbert", born 1419 (according to sources cited - thepeerage.com & Genealogics): Wikidata: Item Q76297297 help.gif






Memories: 1
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William AP Thomas build Raglan Castle in the 15th Century.

Upon the death of his brother, Jevan AP Thomas, William assumed responsibility for the care of his nephew, Robert AP Jevan.

posted 2 Jan 2011 by James Turner
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Comments: 7

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update - merge completed (but the profile needs work)

Thomas-16165 and Ap Thomas-10 appear to represent the same person because: duplicate profiles for father of Gwilym ap Thomas / William Herbert. Please merge. Thanks!

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
edited by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Source: Douglas Richardson. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City: the author, 2013), volume I, page 336 BERKELEY 9.
  • William Ap Thomas aka Herbert

James Berkeley, married Elizabeth Bluet. James Berkeley, died 13 June 1405. His widow, Elizabeth, married (4th) before 1420 (his 1st wife) William AP Thomas AP Gwilym, 5th son of Thomas ap Gwilym ap Jenkin, by Maud, daughter of John Morley. They had no issue. Elizabeth died before 19 July 1425. He married (2nd) Gwladus Ferch Dafydd, widow of Roger Vaughan, and daughter of Dafydd Gam, by whom he was the father of William Herbert, 1st Earl of Pembroke (died 1469) and Elizabeth (wife of Henry (or Harry) Stradling, Knt.).

posted by Bettye (Holland) Carroll
edited by Bettye (Holland) Carroll
Source: Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study In Colonial And Medieval Families, in 5 vols. (Salt Lake City, Utah, 2013), Vol. III, page 279.

William Herbert, K.G., 2nd son of William ap Thomas ap Gwilym, Knt., by his 2nd wife, Gwladus, daughter of Dafydd Gam, Knt.

Thank you!

Bartrum shows John Herbert as illeg. son of William (so John's the grandson of Thomas & Mawd, not son). See Godwin 8, Godwin 5, and Cydifor Fawr 16 (charts posted by The Bartrum Project).

2023 Note - the cadair links no longer work; Geni has a copy at https://www.geni.com/projects/Bartrum-Genealogical-Project/4476525 - free login required to access the charts.

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
edited by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
I added information/sources from Elizabeth Bluet's profile & changed his marriage date with her from 1406 to before 1420.
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
he wasn't born in Raglan Castle... he bought Raglan manor (and lordship) from his stepson. see "Note on Raglan" in Berkeley-38 (has more info than the category page)
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett