Alexander Kidd (bef. 1805 - 1872)

Born before 1805 in Scotland, United Kingdom [uncertain]

Husband of Janet (Paton) Kidd — married 1832 in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

Descendants

Died 12 Oct 1872 after age 67 in Chatham, New South Wales, Australia

Problems/Questions Profile manager: Laurie Kidd [send private message]

Biography

Alexander KIDD (1799-1872) born Scotland between 1799-1805, died Chatham, shipwright, arrived Sydney 1827 aboard “Denmark Hill” from Dundee, settled Chatham late 1830s, built ship of 92 tons called “Mary Ann” on the Manning in 1842 - no doubt named after second daughter (4th child). Married Janet PATON in 1832, at Scots Kirk, Sydney. (Her first husband had been James STEWART (1793-1831) who died very soon after their arrival in Australia.) KIDD family: James (1835-1857) married Ann DAVIS; JOHN B 1836; Jane Isabella(1835-1906) m. James Henry YARNOLD; Mary Ann (1838-1859) m. John HERITAGE; Thomas (1840-1912) m. Flora McKINNON; Alexander (?); Sarah (1842 -?); male (?).^[1]

Age at immigration (24 in 1827) and in 1828 Census NSW (25) suggest he was born in 1803; not 1799.^[2]

Alexander Kidd arrived on the “Denmark Hill” from Dundee in 1827. Janet Paton (maiden name) arrived with her husband James Stewart and child on the “Stirling Castle” from Greenock in 1831. James died from hepatitis 17 days after arrival. He was a blacksmith and was one of the Scottish “Mechanicals” on board that the Scottish Presbyterian minister John Dunmore Lang brought to Australia (Dunmore Lang was a most interesting character - as I’m sure you all know). Both Alexander and Janet were Scotch Presbyterian and were married by Lang in the Scots Kirk in 1832. As I think I mentioned in an earlier note Janet’s brother (our great great great uncle) George Paton was also on board the “Stirling Castle.” He was a master stonemason who built the Garrison Church and the Hero of Waterloo Hotel in the Rocks, Berrima Jail, and many more of our heritage buildings. He died a wealthy man on his farm in Five Dock. His brother Robert Paton was also a master stonemason who was Foreman of Works, Circular Wharf, Sydney Cove from 1839-1849. He also sculptured the coat of arms above the entrance to Customs House at the Quay - apparently considered one of the finest stone carvings in Australia.^[3]

Marriage NSW: 1832: 263/1832 V1832263 73A; KIDD, ALEXANDER & STEWART, JANET; District JA. (JA is code for Sydney, Scots Church Presbyterian).

DEATH registration NSW:^[4] Alexander KIDD died 12 Oct 1872, at Chatham, District of Wingham, NSW; shipwright; male; age 73. Born in Dundee, Scotland, 45 years in NSW. Father James KIDD, farmer. Married in Sydney, at age 33, to Janet Jane STEWART. Children of the marriage: 2 males, 1 female living; 3 males, 2 females deceased. Informant: James KIDD, son, Chatham. Cause of death: old age and general debility; 6 weeks [medical attendant blank].Date of burial: 14 Oct 1872, at Woolla Woolla cemetery. James S. LAING Presbyterian minister. Witnesses James KIDD & James YARNOLD. Registered 21 Oct 1872 at Wingham.

1937 - OBITUARY of grandson CHARLES HERITAGE- A Good Man Gone. Death of Charles Heritage at Laurieton. An Interview. Mr. C. Yarnold’s Reminiscences. (Written for the Wingham “Chronicle” By “Fitz.”) Mr. Charles Heritage, an old resident of Laurieton, passed away on Tuesday, June 25th, 1935, at the age of 81 years. The funeral took place at Laurieton on Wednesday, 26th. June. The above announcement was made in “The Wingham Chronicle” of June 28th, 1935. Mr. Charles Yarnold, of Ruth-st., Wingham [ William Charles Yarnold (1860-1944) ], after reading the announcement referred to, had brought back to memory many happenings associated with the life of Mr. Charles Heritige. Mr. Yarnold stated, during the course of an interview in “The Chronicle” Office at Wingham, that the late Mr. Charles Heritage was born at Tinonee. As a matter of fact, his father—John Heritige—was the first blacksmith at Tinonee. There were three children born to Mr. and Mrs. John Heritige during their residence in Tinonee. It might be mentioned that Mrs. Heritige was a daughter of Mr. Alexander Kidd, an old shipwright, who resided in the early days of the Manning at Chatham, below Taree.

It might be mentioned, also, that Mr. Alexander Kidd built the “Mary Ann,” and many other ships that traded on the Manning. He also worked with the late Mr. A. Newton (whose name is associated closely with the early day ship-building activities on the Manning. The late Mr. W. Fotheringham, of Wingham. and the late Mr. George Fotheringham, of Taree, also served their apprenticeship with Messrs. Newton and Kidd, at Pelican, Lower Manning, in the pioneering days. Old Alexander Kidd was grand-father to Mr. Charles Yarnold [who was being interviewed for this article, William Charles Yarnold (1860-1944)], and also to the late Mr. Charles Heritige. In passing, Mr. Yarnold said he would like to mention the that some years ago the late Mr. W. Fotheringham was engaged in putting a rail in portion of the Saleyards fence at the rear of the Australian Hotel at Wingham. Most people know that the late Mr. W. Fotheringham was responsible for the building of the Australian Hotel at Wingham. He was a far-seeing man. and one of the most progressive residents the town of Wingham ever had. Mr. Fotheringham’s works live to-day, though he has long since passed to his everlasting rest. However, to get back to the point again, the late Mr. W. Fotheringham was putting in a rail in portion of the fence of the saleyards at the rear of the Australian Hotel, Wingham. Those saleyards, years ago, were responsible for spending of thousands of pounds in the Australian Hotel at Wingham. When Mr. Fotheringham was doing his bit of “fencing” referred to, Mr. H. Machin—then a new arrival at Wingham—was standing near by, and Mr. Charles Yarnold was with him. Mr. Machin remarked to the late Mr. Fotheringham: “I thought you were a shipwright?” Mr. Fotheringham replied: “I am a Shipwright.” Pointing to Mr. Charley Yarnold, Mr. Fotheringham then remarked to Mr. Machin: “I served my time under that man’s Grand-father, and he could do better work with an adze than what we can do to-day with a plane.” Mr. Fotheringham was then, of course, referring to Mr. Alexander Kidd. who was the Grandfather of Mr. Yarnold.

It might here be mentioned that the late Alexander Kidd came to Australia from Scotland. He was twenty five years of age when he landed in Sydney, but he had previously been for a time in New Zealand. The boat he came in from Scotland was wrecked on the coast of New Zealand, and Mr. Kidd and another man were the only passengers to reach land. The Maoris took charge of the two men and they did away with the other man, but Mr. Kidd lived with the Maoris for three years. Mr. Kidd had a most interesting career in New Zealand. He had a narrow escape of being eaten by the Maoris, and the arrival of a Man o’ War Ship was responsible for his rescue, and his arrival in Sydney. Mr. Kidd was really worshipped for a considerable time by the Maoris amongst whom he first landed. How-ever, there was trouble between different sections of the natives referred to, and Mr. Kidd was buffetted about a good deal. As stated above, only for the timely arrival of the Man o’ War boat, preparation had been made to have a feast on Mr. Kidd’s body. Kidd swam out to meet a boat from the warship. He swam about 100 yards and thus escaped making a fine dinner for people who in those days did not trouble much as to what their meals composed of, so long as they were nourishing and appetising. When he first landed in New Zealand, Mr. Kidd did much for the natives of the Island on which he was cast. His work in carpentering and boat building pleased the Maoris exceedingly. This all went well until tribal troubles started. Mr. Alexander Kidd, soon after arrival in N.S. Wales, married Mrs. Janet Stewart, who was then a widow. It might be mentioned that Mrs. Janet Stewart left Scotland in the early days for Australia, with her husband and one son. They really came out to Australia for the good of Mr. Stewart’s health. They were people of independent means. Mr. Stewart purchased a good deal of landed property in the heart of the City of Sydney at the time. There was very little of Sydney at that time, however, and the property to-day would be most valuable. When Mr. Alexander Kidd arrived in Sydney from New Zealand, he met Mrs. Stewart, whose husband had previously died. Eventually they married, and Mr. Kidd carried on ship-building in Sydney for a time—later coming to the Manning River, where he also engaged in the same calling. Mr. Charley Yarnold’s mother was Jane Isabella Kidd. She was born on the Manning, at Chatham. […] ^[5]

Research Notes

There is considerable doubt in my mind about the accuracy of the parents given for this Alexander. I have seen several family trees on the web that claim that his parents were Alexander KYD and Jean LOWSON, and that he was baptised (born?) in Forfar and in Fife, Scotland. And, Yes, there is at Scotland's People the baptism of that person,^[6] and other children of the same parents.

However, Alexander's death registration in 1872 states he was born in Dundee, and his father's name was James. So far, I see no reason to connect the two Alexander KIDD records and claim they are one and the same person. Having done a lot of family history research in Scotland I am very aware that prior to the 1855 beginning of civil registration the records are far from complete - and without some 'connecting' information (for example, if Alexander's death registration had said his father was Alexander and he was born in Forfar!) it is impossible to "prove" a connection; and far too easy to think the 'most appropriate' record is "ours". Pip O'Brien

Regarding the tale about almost being dinner for the Maori tribe, as told above by his grandson Charley YARNOLD (1860-1944) …Charley would have been aged 12 when Alexander died in 1872. It is possible that he heard it directly from his grandfather Alexander, although the tale may have been embellished a little to entertain the young lad? Regardless, later generations have a reputation as being "great story tellers who could entertain one for hours". I guess we'll never truly know the veracity of that version of Alexander's life history either!

And thirdly, can anyone help me with a record of Alexander's arrival in Australia? It is said by the informants already cited, that it was on the "Denmark Hill" in 1827, BUT, he is not listed among the passengers: 1827 July 7 - SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE. The Government schooner Alligator, sailed for Port Macquarie, on Sunday last. On the evening of the same day, the ship Denmark Hill, arrived from England, which she left on the 6th of February last. She touched at Rio Je Janeiro ; where she took on board a considerable quantity of tobacco. She found at that port, the Woodman, which had experienced very bad weather, and sustained some damage, in the high southern latitudes. The Nereus, and Regalia, were also at Rio ; and letters from young Mr. Clayton, who embarked on the latter vessel for England, in December last, have been received, highly gratifying to his family, and numerous friends. The Denmark Hill imports several passengers, and a valuable cargo of merchandize. […] ^[7] I admit that steerage passengers were often not listed individually in newspapers; but they are usually at least mentioned, and in this case none are. OR he might have come as crew, being a shipwright?

On the same subject: the australianroyalty site^[8] gives Immigration as: Citation details: Sydney Gazette Thu 28 Jun 1832 p. 3 Text: Came free aboard the ship Denmark Hill in 1827."

• BUT - Sydney Gazette of 28 June 1832 says: Arrived, on Wednesday, the 30th inst. the brig "Mary Ann Jamison", 738 tons, Captain Alexander, from Leith 12th December, and the Cape of Good Hope 1st April. Passengers - Mrs. Dauphine Green and child, Mr. Alexander Kidd, Mr & Mrs. Gordon, Messrs. A. Easton, George White,Thomas Gray, William Cameron, John Scott, Mr. and Mrs. | D. Innes, Mr. and Mrs. John Wilson, Mr. Thomas Glass. Miss Eliza Pearson, Miss Charlotte M’Donald, Messrs. Robert Wright, Williamson, and M’Donald Mr. and Mrs. Russell with 7 sons and 2 daughters. The Surgeon of the ship, Mr. Marland, we regret to state, died -on the voyage before the vessel reached the Cape of Good Hope, and Mr. Muir, a passenger, died on board since the vessel left the Cape.[1] HOWEVER, this is clearly not a 1827 arrival; nor on "Denmark Hill"????

Sources

1. ↑ Gladstone KIDD notes (dated Aug 1986)
2. ↑ https://australianroyalty.net.au/tree/purnellmccord.ged/individual/I20677/Alexander-Kidd
3. ↑ Phil KIDD personal correspondence Jan 2022
4. ↑ KIDD, ALEXANDER; 4664/1872; father JAMES; mother column reads DIED CHATHAM; MANNING RIVER
5. ↑ The Wingham Chronicle and Manning River Observer (NSW : 1898 - 1954) View title info Fri 5 Jul 1935 Page 3 A Good Man Gone. See https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/166509291?searchTerm=Charles%20Heritage
6. ↑ BAPTISM (Scotlands People): KYD, ALEXANDER; parents ALEXANDER KYD/JEAN LOWSON; M; 29/10/1800; 288/40 143; Forfar.
7. ↑ The Gleaner (Sydney, NSW : 1827) Sat 7 Jul 1827 Page 4 SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE.
8. ↑ https://australianroyalty.net.au/tree/purnellmccord.ged/individual/I20677/Alexander-Kidd

• KIDD ALEXANDER, Death Registration #4664/1872, Father's Given Name(s), JAMES, Mother's Given Name(s), DIED CHATHAM, District, MANNING RIVER
• https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/162834736/alexander-kidd
• https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GQ2T-2G5

Acknowledgments

Thank you to Laurie Kidd for creating Kidd-907 on 18 Jul 13.