Mary (Massey) Turner (bef. 1816)

Born before 9 Jun 1816 in Warrington, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom

Wife of William Turner — married 31 Aug 1835 in Manchester, Lancashire, England

Descendants

Problems/Questions Profile manager: Corinne Morris [send private message]

Biography

Mary Massey was born about 1816 in Warrington, Lancashire. She was the daughter of James and Mary Massey. She was christened on 9 Jun 1816 at St Elphin's Church in Warrington. Her father's occupation was given as cotton spinner, and the family's address as Bank Quay. She may have had an elder sister Charlotte, and an elder brother John (see notes below).

Mary's brother James was christened on 24 May 1818 at St Elphin's Church in Warrington. His father's occupation was given as cotton spinner, and the family's address as Bank Quay.

Her sister Nancy was christened on 16 Jan 1820 at St Elphin's Church in Warrington. Her father's occupation was given as cotton spinner, and the family's address as Bank Quay.

Her sister Sarah was christened on 3 Feb 1822 at St Elphin's Church in Warrington. Her father's occupation was given as cotton spinner, and the family's address as Bank Quay.

Her brother Joseph was christened on 18 Jan 1824 at St Elphin's Church in Warrington. His father's occupation was given as cotton spinner, and the family's address as Bank Quay. Joseph probably died in infancy and was buried 4 May 1824 at St Elphin's (age infant, abode Bank Quay, name Joseph Warburton Massey).

Mary's mother probably died in 1824, and was buried on 17 Mar 1824 at St Elphin's Church in Warrington. Her age was recorded as 35, and her address as Bank Quay.

Mary's sister Sarah probably died aged 13 and was buried at St Elphin's on 18 Feb 1835, her address being recorded as Bank Quay.

Mary married William Turner on 31 Aug 1835 at Manchester Cathedral. His occupation was given in the marriage record as cordwainer, and Mary was described as a spinster. The witnesses were Thomas Parry, who signed, and David Bailey, who made his mark. Thomas Parry was probably a church official as he witnessed all the marriages on the register page.

William and Mary had five daughters. William died aged 36 in 1852. I'm not sure what became of Mary after that - she may have married Thomas Bartlett or Bartley (see Notes below).

Research Notes

There was also a Mary Ann Massey baptism in Warrington in 1817, who was thought not to be her.

Siblings

Her possible sister Charlotte married David Bayley on 1 Jan 1826 in Stockport. David was a carter, Charlotte a spinster; both were of the local parish, and unable to sign their names. The witnesses were John Walker and John Wood.

A possible brother William was christened on 19 Jul 1835 at Manchester Cathedral. His father's occupation was given as spinner, and the family's address as Manch.

There is some uncertainty that Charlotte is Mary Massey's sister; the father's occupation changes between Charlotte and the next child's christening four years later, from potter to spinner. With no marriage record for the parents, it's difficult to be sure. A David Bailey witnessed William Turner and Mary Massey's marriage, who could have been Mary's brother-in-law if Charlotte was her sister or half-sister.

The best match for Mary's brother James in censuses married Ellen Montgomery in 1840^[1] and lived in Liverpool in 1841^[2] and in 1851, when there was a 52-year-old mother-in-law Mary Massey in their household.^[3] Her age is clearly written as 52 on the census page. In 1871 they were still in Liverpool.^[4] A 52-year-old mother for the subject of this profile would be on the young side but since people sometimes underestimate their age a little, it's reasonable. It would however make it much less likely that Charlotte and John Massey belong to the same parents as Mary and James. It also doesn't fit with the 1824 burial record for Mary Massey, and there is a 8 Jan 1819 burial record at St Elphin's for an 8-month-old James Massey of Bank Quay which seems more likely to be him.

Mary's sister Nancy may have married Thomas Taylor in Sep qtr 1848 at St Paul's Church in Warrington. If so I couldn't find her in the 1851 census, and Thomas may have died almost as soon as they married - there's a burial on 14 Aug 1848 at St Elphin's of a 24-year-old Thomas Taylor (abode Edinburgh).

Out of the set of christenings of definite full-siblings of Mary, probably only Nancy and Mary survived to 1841.

Parents

There are few plausible marriage records for James Massey the potter and father of John and Charlotte. The best is probably the marriage of Mary Price and James or Joseph Massey on 22 Feb 1807 in Grappenhall, Cheshire, which is about 4 miles from Warrington. The BT transcription has his name as Joseph, and this appears from the image to have some justification although it's unclear. The original register transcription has his name as James.

If John and Charlotte were not full siblings of Mary, there could have been two James Masseys, or one who married twice and changed from a potter to a cotton spinner between the two sets of christenings (but no burial record for a Mary Massey around 1812-16 has been found so far). In either case, there is a possible marriage of a 27-year-old James Massey to a 26-year-old Mary Ditchfield on 6 Aug 1815 at Eccles St Mary's, and they could be Mary Massey's parents; if Mary Massey's mother was from Eccles it could be why she was living in Manchester from at least 1835 onwards. This marriage record would align with a baptism for James on 1 Feb 1789 at St Elphin's Warrington (parents Isaac (weaver) & Jane), and a burial for Mary (Ditchfield) Massey on 17 Mar 1824 at St Elphin's aged 35 (abode Bank Quay).

There's a possible burial for Mary's father James at St Elphin's on 21 Jul 1826 aged 44 (abode Mersey Street); I'm not sure whether Mersey St might be considered part of Bank Quay district or not if it was a district name not a road name, but certainly the age doesn't match the baptism or the marriage with Mary Ditchfield.

There's a possible James Massey the right age to match the marriage and burial in the 1841 census (521-05 folio 11 p 15 - folio 12 p 16); he seems to have died in 1845 (bur 21 May 1845 St Elphin's, age 59, abode Bank Quay). It's within a reasonable margin of error of the 1789 baptism and the Mary Ditchfield marriage, but the dates of the 17 Mar 1824 burial record for Mary Massey of Bank Quay and the 24 Feb 1824 marriage record of James Massey and Elizabeth Cheetham which appears to match this 1841 census record and the corresponding 1851 one are incompatible with there being a single James Massey who was Mary's father, lost his wife in March 1824 and remarried to Elizabeth Cheetham in February 1824. With James and Elizabeth's first child's christening not being till late in 1825, it's tempting to think an error may have been made in the dates and the marriage might have been in February 1825, but it does appear in date order in the images of the original register. James signed the register in 1824, as did the James who married in Eccles, and the signatures don't look very similar at all. So it seems unlikely that all these records represent a single James Massey.

Nevertheless the 1841 census record for James Massey and Elizabeth (Cheetham) Massey does contain a Nancy Massey the right age to be the daughter of James and Mary Massey, and also contains an 18-year-old Eliza Massey who doesn't seem to be a possible daughter of James and Mary Massey but doesn't seem to have been christened as Eliza Cheetham either. Very puzzling.

The marriage of James Massey and Elizabeth Cheetham was conducted by Richard Guest, and one of the witnesses was W.B.Guest. However Wilbraham Bootle Guest appears to have been a regular witness at the marriages conducted by Richard Guest^[5] so this is not an indication of a family relationship. Another James Massey marriage (to Margaret Moss on 26 Apr 1824 in Oldham) has a Peter Guest as witness - Peter was probably another member of the same Guest family. Children of the Revd Richard Guest & his wife Mary were christened at Eccles from 1783 - 1795, and included a Peter, a Richard and a Wilbraham Bootle. Richard Guest was made a deacon in 1782,^[6] ordained in 1783,^[7] and appointed curate of Eccles in 1794.^[8] The Revd Richard Guest was buried at Eccles on 4 Dec 1816 aged 59 years 10 months. There is a FamilySearch tree entry for him, but his wife's maiden name hasn't yet been determined.

Marriage

Marriage: 31 Aug 1835 Manchester Cathedral (William Turner & Mary Massey)^[9]

We know from Mary's daughter Eliza's marriage certificate that her father was William Turner, a shoemaker, which was a relatively uncommon occupation. From the 1841 & 1851 census, his wife's name was Mary. A search in the Familysearch.org index turned up a number of possible William Turner - Mary marriages in Manchester Cathedral; the one best fitting the date of birth of their first child was William Turner m. Mary Massey in August 1835, but as the coverage was likely to be incomplete and the date of birth of first child is not a totally reliable guide, I only viewed this as a possibility.

There's no marriage of a Mary Massey/Turner on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk, which often (but not always) has an index entry for both a woman's maiden name and her current surname in the marriage index. All the deaths of a Mary Turner in Salford between 1851 and 1861 are the wrong age to be her. She could have moved, perhaps returned to Warrington to be near extended family or for parish relief, and died or remarried there. But her daughters all seem to have stayed within 10 miles of Manchester, which makes it seem unlikely she moved far. One possibility is she remarried, but she could just have been missed in the 1861 census and died later.

Possible remarriage: Marriage: 28 Sep 1856 Cathedral Church of St John the Evangelist, Salford, Lancashire, England

Thomam Bartlett - Pendlebury

Mariam Turner, Relictam Gulielmi Turner - Pendleton

  Groom's Parents: Gulielmi Bartlett & Catherinae Bartlett

  Witness: Bernardo Healey of Halshaw Moor; Maria Healey of Halshaw Moor

  Married by: Dionysius Byrne Miss. Apost.

  Register: Marriages 1856 - 1863, Page 23

  Source: Original Register at LRO Preston^[10]

However this is a Roman Catholic church, so she'd have had to convert to Catholicism to marry there. I couldn't see a clear match for this couple in 1861, and there were no . LancashireBMD gives the groom's surname as Bartley, as does freeBMD.

Possible match for Thomas Bartlett in 1851: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG5M-J94 and in 1841: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M73R-7PQ. His brother Alfred in 1841: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M73R-7LZ in 1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD6D-N4X in 1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27R-W36C and in 1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:79NX-B3Z

Children's Births

The christening of their eldest child Sarah (who probably died young as she wasn't with them in any census) in January 1837 was at Manchester Cathedral and lists William as a cordwainer (maker of high quality shoes), and their abode as Manchester. Unfortunately she was born before civil registration, so it wasn't possible to check her mother's maiden name from the civil registration index. However, the likeliest candidate for the birth registration of the youngest known child, Ellen (as Sarah Ellen) listed the mother's maiden name as Massey; there was no birth registration for a Nancy as such, but the likeliest registration for her was an unnamed female child whose mother's maiden name was Massey; and there was a registration perfectly fitting Eliza, with mother's maiden name Massey. And there was also a registration that matched Eliza's other sister Mary, with mother's maiden name Massey.

All the children were registered in Salford, and a move from Manchester proper to Salford might have accounted for the fact that no more children after Sarah were christened at Manchester Cathedral. However it wasn't a great distance and there might have been some other reason. There were other birth registrations for Turner children with mother's maiden name Massey in the Manchester area; there was even one such for a Martha in June quarter Salford 20 802, the same quarter as Eliza's sister Mary but a different page so she can't have been a twin. Bizarrely, there was also a Martha Turner with parents William & Mary christened in Manchester Cathedral in Apr 1841, Manchester Cathedral, who might have been the same child, but I don't see how this could be the same family.

Clearly, there is considerable possibility for confusion here, so I haven't tried to attribute any children with mother's maiden name MASSEY to this family except the ones who are recorded with the family in a census.

Census

1841: North Street, Salford folio 32b HO107/586-12^[11]

  William Turner 25 shoe maker J Y

  Mary 25 Y

  Nancy 3 Y

  Mary 1 Y

1851: 1 North Street, Christ Church parish, Salford^[12][13]

  William Turner H M 35 shoe maker b. Salford

  Mary wife 35 b. Warrington Lancs

  Nancy daur 13 scholar b. Salford

  Mary daur 10 scholar b. Salford

  Eliza daur (illegible) scholar b. Salford

  Ellen daur 2 b. Salford

Joseph Turner is still at 2 West Mason Street in 1861, aged 50 & still a shoe maker; there is a 14-year-old Ellen Turner b. Salford in the 1861 but she's not William's daughter.

I haven't been able to find her in the 1861 census,

Sources

1. ↑ https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NKTX-665
2. ↑ https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQ2R-BXL
3. ↑ https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGPR-74Y
4. ↑ https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBFM-9PP
5. ↑ https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Salford/Eccles/stmary/marriages_1813-1814.html
6. ↑ https://theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/DisplayOrdination.jsp?CDBOrdRedID=44060
7. ↑ https://theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/DisplayOrdination.jsp?CDBOrdRedID=44127
8. ↑ https://theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/DisplayAppointment.jsp?CDBAppRedID=71058
9. ↑ "England Marriages, 1538–1973 ," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJR6-G3G : 10 December 2014), William Turner and Mary Massey, 31 Aug 1835; citing Cathedral,Manchester,Lancashire,England, reference , index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 438,196, 438,197.
10. ↑ Lancashire Online Parish Clerk
11. ↑ "England and Wales Census, 1841," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQGZ-D25 : 13 December 2017), Nancy Turner in household of William Turner, Manchester, Lancashire, England; from "1841 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO HO 107, The National Archives, Kew, Surrey.
12. ↑ "England and Wales Census, 1851," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG5N-4J1 : 20 October 2017), Mary Turner in household of William Turner, Manchester, Lancashire, England; citing Manchester, Lancashire, England, p. 44, from "1851 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO HO 107, The National Archives of the UK, Kew, Surrey.
13. ↑ "England and Wales Census, 1851," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG5N-4V3 : 20 October 2017), Ellen Turner in household of Nancy Turner, Manchester, Lancashire, England; citing Manchester, Lancashire, England, p. 45, from "1851 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO HO 107, The National Archives of the UK, Kew, Surrey.