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Ralph Neville KB (abt. 1456 - 1498)

Ralph "3rd Earl of Westmorland" Neville KB
Born about in Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of — married before 20 Feb 1473 in Englandmap
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 42 in Hornby Castle, Yorkshire, Englandmap
Profile last modified | Created 13 Feb 2011
This page has been accessed 11,658 times.
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Predecessor
Ralph Neville, 2nd Earl of Westmorland
Ralph de Neville, 3rd Earl of Westmorland
03 Nov 1484 - 06 Feb 1499
Successor
Ralph Neville, 4th Earl of Westmorland

Contents

Biography

Family and Political Life

Ralph was the only son of John Neville, Lord Neville, and Anne de Holand.[1][2] He was likely born about 1456.[2][3] (See Research Notes) His parents held properties in a number of counties and the exact location of his birth is unknown. His father, a fervent Lancastrian, was slain at the Battle of Towton on 29 March 1461 (when Ralph was about five years old), and attainted 4 November 1461.[2][4][5] His mother married (third) James Douglas, K.G., the 9th earl of Douglas (as his second wife).[2][3]

On 6 October 1472, when he was about 16 years of age, Ralph Neville was able to obtain a reversal of his father's attainder and restore many of the family's estates, assuming the title of Lord Neville.[2][6]

On 18 April 1475, along with the king's sons, Neville was made a Knight of the Bath.[7]

For his services against the rebels (probably referring to the Peasants' Revolt), he received a grant from Richard III on 25 March 1483/4 of the manors of Barington and Southpederton in Somerset, with the reversion of other lands which had been held by the late Margaret, countess of Richmond, and an annuity of £80 from the issues of Barnard Castle during the lifetime of Thomas, Lord Stanley.[8]

On his uncle's death in November 1484 he succeeded as the 3rd earl of Westmorland.[9]

When Henry VII ascended the throne, Neville gave bonds of £400 and 400 marks,[3] and ceded to the king the responsibility of arranging a marriage for his oldest son, Ralph.[10]

In 1497 Ralph Neville, 3rd earl of Westmorland, served as one of the commanders of the king's army which was assembled to invade Scotland.[11]

Marriage

Ralph married sometime before 20 February 1472[2][5]Isabel (or Matilda) Booth, a daughter of Roger Booth, Esq., of Aldersey and Mollington, Cheshire, and Katherine de Hatton.[12][13][14] There were two children from this marriage:

His wife, Isabel, was still living 20 March 1483[2] but there is no written record of her after that date. She was buried at Brancepeth, Durham.[2]

Death

Ralph Neville, 3rd earl of Westmorland, died 7 June 1498 at Hornby Castle, Yorkshire, and was buried there.[2][3] (See Research Notes) The cause of his death is unknown, but rumored to have been his grief at the death of his only son earlier that year.[3]

Research Notes

Date of birth: About 1356. The IPMs of Ralph Neville, 2nd Earl of Westmorland, give his heir as his nephew Ralph Neville, son of John Neville, brother of the said earl.[17] His nephew Ralph Neville was said to be aged 28 years and more in 12 of 13 IPMs, all dated between December 1484 and February 1485 (the 13th gave his age as 24 years old). He was said to be aged 30 years and more in the IPM of his mother in 1386.[18]
Date of Death: Richardson and most other secondary sources give an incorrect date of death for Ralph, 3rd earl of Westmorland. The correct date is 7 June 1498, not 6 February 1498/9 as stated by Richardson. This mistake is the result of errors in the printed versions of the various inquisitions post mortem. The abstracts of the IPMs give for his date of death:
- 253. Inq. 25 June 1500, NORFOLK: Died 6 Feb. 1499. Heir grandson aged 2.[19]
- 331. Inq. 29 April 1500, DERBY: Died 10 Sept. 1497. Heir son aged 1 year.[20]
- 332. Inq. 28 April 1500, NOTTINGHAM: Findings as 331. No Date or heir?[20]
- 333. Inq. 6 May 1500, HANTS.: Findings as 253. No Date or heir?[20]
- 341. Inq. 29 June 1500, SURREY: Findings as 333. Date of death and heir not given.[21]
- 348. Inq. 27 June 1500, YORK: Findings as 333. No Date or heir?[22]
- 350. Inq. 29 Sept. 1500, HUNTINGDON: Findings as 253. No Date or heir?[22]
- 371. Inq. 6 Feb. 1501, Devon: Died 31 July 1499. Heir grandson aged 3.[23]
- 558. Inq. 21 April 1500, DURHAM: Died 7 June 1498. Heir grandson aged 4 1/2.[24]
As noted above, several different dates of death are given: 6 Feb. 1499, 10 Sept. 1497, 31 Jul. 1499, and 7 Jun. 1498.
The Fine Rolls indicate that a series of writs were issued for the taking of an IPM following the death of Ralph, earl of Westmorland. The writs were issued on 10 July 1498, 4 June 1499, 4 February 1500 and 7 February 1500.[25] The last two are a Writ of Amotus and a Writ of Mandamus issued for either missing inquisitions or to correct errors or deficiencies in previous inquisitions. Obviously, if a Writ of Diem Clausit Extremum was issued on 10 July 1498, the earl could not have died after this date, and his true death date was most likely shortly before this date.
The Durham return is by far the most extensive, and a reading of the original makes clear what is going on by giving both the dates of death of the third earl and of his son.[26] It says "...and the late father (of the 4th earl of Westmorland) died on the tenth day of September in the thirteenth year of the reign of King Henry the Sevent..." The jurors further statinging that "the [3rd earl of Westmorland] held no other lands or tenements in chief of the bishop or of any other in co. Durham on seven June last past, the day that the (3rd earl of Westmorland) died..."
So, it was this Ralph Neville's son, Ralph, Lord Neville, who died on 10 September 1497 in the lifetime of his father. Inquisitions 331 and 332 (at least) are not for the 3rd Earl of Westmorland but rather for his son, as should be made obvious both by the date and the fact that they say his heir was his son the now earl (rather than his grandson). So the correct sequence of events was Ralph, Lord Neville died on 10 September 1497, his son, the future 4th earl, was born posthumously on 21 February 1498, and the 3rd earl died 7 June 1498 and was succeeded by his 3 1/2 month old grandson. (Joe Cochoit, 27 Feb 2024)

Sources

  1. Richardson, Douglas. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families]. 2nd edition, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City: the author (2011), vol. 3, pp 252-254, NEVILLE 11. Ralph Neville, Google books.
  2. 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City: the author (2013), vol. 4, pp. 241-242 NEVILLE 16 Ralph Neville.
  3. 3.0 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4 Cokayne, George Edward. The Complete Peerage of the House of Lords and All Its Members From the Earliest Times. Revised edition. London: St Catherine Press (1959), vol. 12(2), pp. 551-552.
  4. Rolls of Parliament, vol. 5, p. 477; vol. 6, p. 24, cited in Cokayne, George Edward. The Complete Peerage of the House of Lords and All Its Members From the Earliest Times. London: St Catherine Press (1936), vol. 9, p. 504.
  5. 5.0 5.1 Petre, J.A. The Nevilles of Brancepeth and Raby 1425-1499, pt. 1. The Ricardian, vol. 5 (1979-81), p. 419, available as a pdf here.
  6. 'Edward IV: October 1472, First Roll', in Parliament Rolls of Medieval England, (Woodbridge, 2005). British History Online https://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/parliament-rolls-medieval/october-1472-first-roll [accessed 29 February 2024], (fn. vi-3-206-1)
  7. Shaw, William Arthur. The Knights of England. London: Sherratt and Hughes (1906), vol. 1, p. 136.
  8. Calendar of Patent Rolls in the PRO, 1476-1485, p. 427.
  9. "Close Rolls, Richard III: 1484-1485," in Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward IV, Edward V, Richard III 1476-1485, ed. K H Ledward (London: Her Majesty's Stationery Office, 1954), 374-391. British History Online, accessed February 28, 2024, http://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-close-rolls/edw4/1476-85/pp374-391, nos. 1304-1305
  10. Campbell, William (ed.). Materials for a History of the Reign of Henry VII. London: Longman & Co. (1873), p. 196.
  11. Vergil, P. Anglica Historia (Camden 3rd ser.), p. 99, as cited in Cokayne, George Edward. The Complete Peerage of the House of Lords and All Its Members From the Earliest Times. Revised edition. London: St Catherine Press (1959), vol. 12(2), pp. 551-552.
  12. 12.0 12.1 12.2 Northumberland County History Committee. A History of Northumberland. Newcastle-upon-Tyne: A. Reid, Sons & Co. (1893), vol. 6, p. 79.
  13. 13.0 13.1 13.2 Rowland, Daniel. Historical and Genealogical Account of the Noble Family of Nevill. London: Samuel Bentley (1830), p. 38.
  14. 14.0 14.1 14.2 14.3 14.4 Foster, Joseph. The Royal Lineage of Our Noble and Gentle Families. London: Hazell, Watson, and Viney (1883), vol. 1, pp. 11-13.
  15. 15.0 15.1 15.2 Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City: the author (2013), vol. 4, p. 242 NEVILLE 16i. Ralph Neville, Knt.
  16. 16.0 16.1 Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City: the author (2013), vol. 2, pp. 289-290 CONYERS 18. William Conyers.
  17. Great Britain, Gordon McKelvie (ed.). Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, volume 35, 1483-1485. London (2021), pp. 102-108.
  18. Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry VII, Vol. 1, 1485-1496, HMSO 1898, page 101.
  19. Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry VII, Vol. 2, 1497-1505, HMSO, 1915, pages 170-171.
  20. 20.0 20.1 20.2 Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry VII, Vol. 2, 1497-1505, page 214.
  21. Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry VII, Vol. 2, 1497-1505, page 218.
  22. 22.0 22.1 Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry VII, Vol. 2, 1497-1505, page 223.
  23. Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry VII, Vol. 2, 1497-1505, page 231.
  24. Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry VII, Vol. 2, 1497-1505, pages 349-351.
  25. Calendar of the Fine Rolls, Vol. 22, 1485-1509, HMSO, 1962, pages 259, 273, 294.
  26. Potter, Shawn. Weston Pedigree Reconsidered. (2022): page 218.
See Also:
  • Cawley, C. (2006). Medieval Lands v.4. Fmg.ac. Web.[1][2]
  • Foster, Joseph (ed.). Visitations of the County Palatine of Durham. London: by the editor (1887), p. 31. (Boothe pedigree)
  • Great Britain, Gordon McKelvie ed. Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, volume 35, 1483-1485. (London, 2021): page 102-108.
  • Great Britain, Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry VII 1485-1496, volume 1. (London, 1898): page 101.
  • Hodgson, John Crawford. History of Northumberland. Newcastle-upon-Tyne: A. Reid, Sons & Co. (1893), pp. 78-79.
  • Leese, T. Anna. Blood Royal: Issue of the Kings and Queens of Medieval England 1066-1399. Westminster, MD: Heritage Books (2007), p. 233.
  • Twemlow, J A ed. Calendar of Papal Registers Relating To Great Britain and Ireland, volume 10, 1447-1455. (London, 1915): pages 259-260; page 607-608.

Acknowledgements

Magna Carta Project

This profile was developed for the Magna Carta Project by Jen Hutton on 29 February 2024 and reviewed for the Project by Michael Cayley on 1 March 2024.
Ralph Neville KB is not listed in Douglas Richardson's Magna Carta Ancestry but has been identified by the Magna Carta Project as trails from Gateway Ancestors Elizabeth Cooke and Stephen Terry to Magna Carta Surety Barons Hugh le Bigod and Roger Bigod. These trails have not yet been developed on WikiTree by the Magna Carta Project. They can be seen in the Magna Carta trails sections of the profiles of Martha White and Mary White.
See Base Camp for more information about identified Magna Carta trails and their status. See the project's glossary for project-specific terms, such as a "badged trail".




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Comments: 14

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I have been developing this mcp trail for the project, in reverse order (i.e. from the Surety Baron to the gateway ancestor) and have just reached this profile, which I will soon be updating to conform to Magna Carta Project standards. Many thanks to Joe Cochoit and John Atkinson for your recent research, which will make my job a little easier!

Jen (update completed 29 Feb 2024)

posted by Jen (Stevens) Hutton
edited by Jen (Stevens) Hutton
Thank you, Jen, for your work on this profile - and thank you again, Joe Cochoit, for your research notes.
posted by Michael Cayley
If we know his son and heir was born before 1470, then I think we have a very strong argument that this Ralph was actually born before 1450. His parents were certainly old enough to support an earlier birthdate.
posted by Ashley Jones JD
Thanks, Ashley. Cokayne's Complete Peerage gives a birth date of 1456: Vol. 12B of the revised edition, p. 551. This can be looked into further when this profile is overhauled for the Magna Carta Project. Jen Hutton has started working on the Magna Carta trail in which Ralph features, so she may be able to investigate before too long.
posted by Michael Cayley
Thanks, Michael. I suppose it's certainly possible that he married and started fathering children quite young, but I do think it's worth looking at when y'all get to it.
posted by Ashley Jones JD
I added a birth section to discuss his birth date. He could have been born no earlier than 1351 and as late as 1356. The 1356 date is the only one directly supported by a record (his mother's IPM).
His date of birth is usually given as about 1356 as he was said to be aged 30 years and more in the IPM of his mother in 1386.<ref>Great Britain, Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry VII 1485-1496, volume 1. (London, 1898): page 101.</ref> This would also fit well with the marriage of his parents between 1350 and 1352. However, his son appears to have come of age by 1391 when holding land in his own right, was married and began having children. If his son was born by 1370, we would expect John to have been born at least several years earlier than 1356. A date in an IPM like "age 30 years and more" is often rounded and can be taken to mean age 30-39. It also noteworthy that his parents received a papal dispensation in September 1352 which allowed them to remain in marriage and declaring their children already born to be legitimate.<ref>Twemlow, J A ed. Calendar of Papal Registers Relating To Great Britain and Ireland, volume 10, 1447-1455. (London, 1915): pages 259-260; page 607-608.</ref> It is certainly possible that Ralph Neville was born as early as 1351, a date which would fit better with the evidence suggested by his son's records.
posted by Joe Cochoit
One of the ipms for his uncle Ralph Neville, 2nd Earl of Westmorland taken on 24 December 1484, states that his nephew is only 24, so born in about 1460. This is from a transcription in 44th Annual Report of the Deputy Keeper of the Public Records, p. 528 https://archive.org/details/annualreportdep06offigoog/page/528/mode/1up so it is possible there is a mistake? Perhaps he was 34?

However I would recommend that the birth date of about 1456 is retained as it is based on a reliable source, even if we have some doubt about its validity. Although not that common, we do know that there have been children's births when both the father and mother are still quite young

Perhaps Joe's addition could go into the Research Notes section under a birth date heading.

posted by John Atkinson
The sources are certainly puzzling, but it's definitely possible he was just a very young father. I don't think we need to nail down anything certain, since it doesn't look like that will be possible, but just a discussion of his differing ages in the sources would be good to have here. A research note on the topic would be perfect.
posted by Ashley Jones JD
edited by Ashley Jones JD
So the IPMs of Ralph, 2nd Earl of Westmoreland are printed in the most recent Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, 1483-1485. (2021). Not available online. It lists 13 different IPMS for Ralph Neville (each county given separately). 12 say he was aged 28 (IPMs dated Dec 1484 to Feb 1485), the 13th says he was aged 24.

I think we are sticking with 1456 as Ralph's birth date as actually being fairly precise. I will update the birth notes soon.

posted by Joe Cochoit
edited by Joe Cochoit
That's fair. But still, a fourteen year old father is just... wow, lol. O.O I can't help but think there's got to a be a mistake somewhere.
posted by Ashley Jones JD
Ralph has been identified as in a trail from Stephen Terry to the Bigod Magna Carta Surety Barons. The Magna Carta Project therefore proposes to become a co-manager of this profile. Any queries - please contact me.

- I have now added the Magna Carta Project as a manager

posted by Michael Cayley
edited by Michael Cayley
Fine with me! (This sentence means nothing but gets me past the 30-character minimum.)
posted by David Mark Cordell
Did Ralph Die in Hornby Castle, Yorkshire, England ?

I found this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornby_Castle,_Yorkshire JPV IV :)

posted by Anonymous Vickery
Neville-53 and Randolph-471 do not represent the same person because: Does not contain same info
posted by Sheri Havens

Rejected matches › Ralph Neville KG (abt.1364-1425)