no image
Privacy Level: Open (White)

Jeremiah Norcross (abt. 1588 - 1656)

Jeremiah "Jeremy" Norcross
Born about in Priston, Somerset, Englandmap [uncertain]
Son of [uncertain] and [mother unknown]
Husband of — married 14 Sep 1611 in Chelsea, London, , Englandmap
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 68 in Little Walsingham, Norfolk, Englandmap
Profile last modified | Created 1 Mar 2011
This page has been accessed 2,805 times.
The Puritan Great Migration.
Jeremiah Norcross migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1621-1640). (See The Directory, by R. C. Anderson, p. 241)
Join: Puritan Great Migration Project
Discuss: pgm

Contents

Biography

Puritan Great Migration
Jeremiah Norcross immigrated to New England between 1621 and 1640 and later departed for Little Walsingham, Norfolk, England

Birth

There is a probable baptism record for a Jeremie Norcrosse on 5 May 1588 at All Saints, Priston, Somerset, England. That record would indicate he was the son of George Norcross instead of Thomas Norcross, as shown in several online genealogies.[1][2] The last name Norcross appears with a variety of spellings and was often the victim of bad transcriptions. But the image of the original document is quite compelling.

The Records of London's Livery Companies show a George Norcrosse, Master Clothworker like Jeremie who could be his father or a close relative.[3] Furthermore, a George Norcross was appointed twice, in 1604 and 1606, as curate to Publow Chapel in Stanton Drew, also Somerset, 7 miles away from Priston, where Jeremiah was baptized.[4]

Marriage

Jeremiah married Audrie Smythe, widow, in 1611 at St. Luke's parish in Chelsea, London, England.[5] Her maiden name is currently unknown. Jeremiah mentioned his wife's son, John Smith, in his first will, dated 1654. From that information it can be inferred that Audrie's first husband had Smith as his last name. No record of that first marriage could be found to present.

Children

Adrean had a son, John Smith from a previous marriage. No records of his birth could be identified, since the father's name is yet unknown.

Adrean and Jeremiah had at least four children:

  1. Sarah, c. 1612, London England, m. Francis Massey c. 1630.
  2. Nathaniel b. c. 1614, London England, m. Mary Gilbert, d. 1662/3, London, England.[6]
  3. Richard. bap. 16 Dec 1621, London , England, m. 1st Mary Brooks in 1650, m. 2nd Susanna Shattuck in 1673, both in Watertown, Massachusetts Bay Colony, d. c. 1709.[7][8][9]
  4. Mary bap. 5 Sep 1626, London, England, d. 7 Sep 1626, London England.[10]

There has been some controversy concerning Anna (Norcross) Davis. Some online genealogies show her as being one of their daughters. Jeremiah mentioned her in his first will, dated 1654, as "my brother's daughter", which should be sufficient to assuage any doubts on the matter.

Life in England

Despite Jeremiah and Adrean's marriage taking place at St Luke's parish, in Chelsea, London, the couple seems to have moved later on to the parish of All Hallows, Bread Street, near the tower of London. Their son Richard's baptism is chronologically the first record of their presence in that parish. No records of Sarah's and Nathaniel's birth have been found to date. It is possible that the family belonged to another parish between the couple's marriage at St. Luke's in 1611 and Richard's baptism in 1621.

Jeremiah seems to have been a Master Clothworker in London, England. His name appears several times on the Records of London's Livery Companies, which list apprentices, freemen and masters of various trades between 1400 and 1900. Jeremiah was first recorded as a new freeman in 1609.[11] His master was Samuel Williams. No other information was entered about either of them on this record. However, if Jeremiah finished his apprenticeship n 1609 it would probably have started around 1602, when he was about 14 years old.

In 1611 Jeremiah was already listed as a Master, taking on an apprentice from Somerset, England.[12] Between 1611 and 1641 he had several apprentices, including a Tobias Norcross, possibly a relative, son of Egidil (Giles?) Norcross, deceased by then. Tobias started his apprenticeship in 1625.[13] Egidil is said to have been from Dier, Beckington, Somerset, England. Tobias finished his apprenticeship and became a freeman in 1632 - all recorded apprenticeships under Jeremiah lasted 7 or 8 years.[14] Between 1639 and 1641 three of Jeremiah's apprentices became freemen. After 1641 there are no more records for Jeremiah as a Master clothworker, which could indicate that he left to the New World shortly after that, If that was the case, then he would probably still have at least one, maybe two apprentices under his responsibility: Johes Miles, from Kent, England, who started his apprenticeship in 1637 [15] and Thomas Hole, from Hampshire, England, who started his apprenticeship in 1635 [16] It is, therefore, a possibility that Jeremiah would have taken at least one apprentice/indentured servant with the family when they moved to the Massachusetts Bay Colony.

The records of the parish of All Hallows, Bread Street, London show further evidence of Jeremiah being a clothworker and lists his name alongside one of his servants, possibly apprentice. Among the burial records is Morris Whitacre, servant to Mr. Norcross, Clothworker buried 15 September 1625.[17] The same parish records show the baptism of his son Richard, the baptism and burial of his daughter Mary, the bans and marriage records of his daughter Sarah and his niece Anna.[18]

Immigration

It is not known precisely when Jeremiah and Adrean migrated to New England. Anderson estimated their arrival in Watertown, Massachusetts Bay Colony, to have happened in 1639.[19] Furthermore, according to Susan Hardman Moore, they would have arrived with their son Nathaniel, who had recently graduated from the University of Cambridge, as well as two additional children, Richard and Sarah.[20]

There is plenty of evidence that Richard and Nathaniel moved to the New World with their parents. The same cannot be said about Sarah. She was giving birth to children in England until at least 1643 and her husband seems to have been buried in Staffordshire, England, same county where he was born.[21][22] Therefore, it would seem that Sarah and her husband Francis Masey did not accompany the Norcross family, remaining in England instead.

As for when the Norcross family immigrated to the New World, according to the records of London's Livery Companies it would be plausible they would have crossed the Atlantic in or after 1641. Nevertheless, a record from a Quarter Court held at Boston, Massachusetts Bay Colony, in December 1st 1640 seems to indicate that Jeremiah was already a resident in the colony by then:[23]

Mr Collens, Mr Sparhauke & Goo : Bridge are desired to heare businesses betwen John Smyth & his father, Jeremy Norcros, & examine accounts, & settle things if they can; if not, to make report to the Courte if there bee cause./

It does not seem plausible that the Boston Court would see fit to intervene in their "business" if one of them was still in England. It seems likely they both resided in new England by then.

Life in the New World

Jeremiah settled in Watertown, Massachusetts Bay Colony around 1640, with his family. He seems to have been a prosperous landowner. According to the First Inventory of lands, grants and possessions dating from early 1642 in the Watertown Records Jeremiah had been granted 250 acres for farming and another parcel of 38.5 acres. He also purchased several parcels of land varying in size between 2 and 35 acres of meadows, plowland and upland, Including a "homestall" comprising 26 acres bought from John Page, Robert Tuck, Richard Amler and Jacob Segar. By 1642 Jeremiah owned a total of 446.5 acres.[24] In 1644, when the Second Inventory was made, his 250 acres of farmland were no longer mentioned, but 2 more acres of land were added to his holdings totaling 198.5 acres at that point. [25]

There is a record of a "Norcros", no given name, been made freeman in Watertown, Massachusetts Bay Colony, dated February 1652.[26] It has been generally believed that the record would refer to Jeremiah Norcross. It seems late taking into account that he already owned land ten years before that. Nevertheless, since Nathaniel became a freeman in May 1643[27] and Richard in May 1652[26], Jeremiah would seem to be the more logical choice. He was also chosen to be constable in a meeting of Selectmen in 1653.[28].

Return to England

In 1654 Jeremiah made a will "before going to sea", with the intention of returning to "Old England", which he did with wife Adrean.[29] Some authors speculate that he intended to just visit his family in England.[30] Given Jeremiah's and Adrean's age - he would be in his mid-60s and Adrean could be about the same age or older - it's doubtful they had plans to return to Watertown. They immigrated to the Massachusetts Bay Colony around the time the English Civil War (1642-1651) was brewing and returned to England just after it ended. It could be a coincidence, but it could also be that Jeremiah moved to the New World with his family to escape the civil and political unrest which ensued with the conflicts and returned when he deemed England safe again for his family.

Death

Jeremiah died in Little Walsigham, Norfolk, England, on 8 December 1656.[31] When his second will was proved in London, Jeremiah was referred to as "Jeremiah of Walsingham, Norfolk", which would also indicate that he was residing with or near his son Nathaniel, who at the time was vicar of Little Walsigham, Norfolk, England. Adrean's obit record can be found on the same page, less than a month after her husband's on 3 January 1656/7.

Wills

Jeremiah left two wills, the first one dated 15 September, 1654 and proved on 6 October 1657, at the Massachusetts Bay Colony.[29][32]

Transcription of the 1st Will

He travelled to England and when he got sick he decided to write a second will which did not invalidate the first one but rather complemented it. The second will was dated 30 September 1656 and was proved on 5 April 1658, in London, England. [33]

Transcription of the 2nd Will

His inventory is dated 16 September 1657 and recorded at Middlesex.[34]

Needs (temporary)

Have added "needs research" maintenance category. For guidance, see the helpful comment posted by Matthew Fletcher.

Research Notes

Jeremiah Norcross Research

Prior Version/Disputed Parentage. This profile used to be connected to Thomas Norcross and Mary Chappell as parents. Since no sources could be found to support that and a baptism source was found with a different father, those two profiles were disconnected from this one and a new father was attached to the profile.

Directory. Robert Charles Anderson, The Great Migration Directory: Immigrants to New England, 1620–1640: A Concise Compendium (Boston, Massachusetts : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2015), 241--Jeremiah Norcross, as "London; 1639; Watertown; returned permanently to England by 1656"; works consulted as "WaTR 1:5; WaBOP 20; MBCR 1:311; CaBOP 115-16, 121; Rodgers 1:288-90; Waters 1041; NYGBR 40:183-84; TAG 61:18-31; Granberry 283-84; Abandoning 219-21."

Sources

  1. Somerset, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1531-1812, Ancestry Sharing Link Free Ancestry Image
  2. "England, Somerset, Church Records, 1501-1999", database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6D96-WKBS : 25 February 2022), Jeremiah Nor, 1588.
  3. Records of London's Livery Companies Online, George Norcrosse, 1632, record CLLL6364.
  4. England, London, Clergy of the Church of England Database. Diocese of Bath and Wells, Location: Parochial Chapel: Stanton Drew, Publow Chapel. CCEd Location ID: 4706
  5. "England, Middlesex Parish Registers, 1539-1988," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-799X-C?cc=3734475 : 1 February 2022), > image 1 of 1; London Metropolitan Archives, England.
  6. England, Cambridge, A Cambridge Alumni Database record for Nathaniel Norcrosse
  7. "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5GR-HZ9 : 19 September 2020), Richard Norcrosse, 1621.
  8. "Massachusetts, Town Clerk, Vital and Town Records, 1626-2001," database with images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPZY-MYJJ : 11 May 2022), Richard Norcross and Mary Brooks, 24 Apr 1650; citing Marriage, Newton, Middlesex, Massachusetts Bay Colony, British Colonial America, Massachusetts Secretary of the Commonwealth, Boston; FHL microfilm 007011107.
  9. "Massachusetts, Town Clerk, Vital and Town Records, 1626-2001," database with images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FH9J-N9Z : 20 May 2022), Mr Richard Norcross, 18 Sep 1673; citing Marriage, Watertown, Middlesex, Massachusetts Bay Colony, British Colonial America, Massachusetts Secretary of the Commonwealth, Boston; FHL microfilm 007009514.
  10. "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5GR-6X7 : 19 September 2020), Mary Norcrosse, 1626.
  11. Records of London's Livery Companies Online, Jeremias Norcro, 1609, record CLLL11728
  12. Records of London's Livery Companies Online, Jeremie Morcrosse, 1611.record CLLL17072
  13. Records of London's Livery Companies Online, Tobias Norcross, 1626, record CLLL21025
  14. Records of London's Livery Companies Online, Tobias Norcross, 1632, record CLLL11777.
  15. Records of London's Livery Companies Online, Johes Miles, 1637, record CLLL24255.
  16. Records of London's Livery Companies Online, Thomas Hole, 1637, record CLLL23744.
  17. Bannerman, William Bruce. The registers of All Hallows, Bread Street, and of St. John the Evangelist, Friday Street, London. London: The Harleian Society, 1913, p. 182, image 405.
  18. Bannerman, William Bruce. The registers of All Hallows, Bread Street, and of St. John the Evangelist, Friday Street, London. London: The Harleian Society, 1913.
  19. Anderson, Robert Charles. The Great Migration Directory, Immigrants to New England 1620-1640. Boston: New England Historical Genealogical Society, 2015, p. 241.
  20. Moore, Susan Hardman. Abandoning America, Life-Stories From Early New England. New York: Boydell, New York: 2013, p. 219-221.
  21. "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5GR-FBX : 19 September 2020), Norcrosse in entry for Mary Massey, 1634.
  22. "England, Staffordshire, Church Records, 1538-1944," database with images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL7W-J8V9 : 8 July 2020), Francis Massey, 18 Apr 1679; citing Burial, Trentham, Staffordshire, England, Staffordshire & Stoke on Trent Archive Service, Stafford; FHL microfilm 7,567,143.
  23. Shurtleff, Nathaniel Bradstreet. Records of the governor and company of the Massachusetts bay in New England. Vol. 1, 1628-1641. Boston: William White, 1853, p. 311.
  24. Watertown Records : comprising the first and second books of town proceedings with the lands grants and possessions, also the proprietors' book and the first book and supplement of births and deaths and marriages. Watertown, Mass.: Fred G. Baker, 1894,p. 20-21.
  25. Watertown Records : comprising the first and second books of town proceedings with the lands grants and possessions, also the proprietors' book and the first book and supplement of births and deaths and marriages. Watertown, Mass. : Fred G. Baker, 1894, p. 116.
  26. 26.0 26.1 Shurtleff, Nathaniel Bradstreet. Records of the governor and company of the Massachusetts bay in New England. Vol. III. Boston: W. White, 1853, p. 460.
  27. Shurtleff, Nathaniel Bradstreet. Records of the governor and company of the Massachusetts bay in New England. Vol. II. Boston: W. White, 1853, p. 293
  28. Watertown Records: comprising the first and second books of town proceedings with the lands grants and possessions, also the proprietors' book and the first book and supplement of births and deaths and marriages. Watertown, Mass. : Fred G. Baker, 1894,p. 33
  29. 29.0 29.1 Middlesex County, MA: Probate File Papers, 1648-1871.Online database. AmericanAncestors.org. New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2014. (From records supplied by the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court Archives. Digitized images provided by FamilySearch.org) NEHGS Free Access
  30. Hatch, William Collins. A History of the Town of Industry: Franklin County, Maine. Volume 1. Farmington, Maine: Knowlton, McLeary and Co., 1893, p. 746.
  31. "England, Norfolk, Parish Registers (County Record Office), 1510-1997," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DT3Q-DQ?cc=1416598&wc=4J6P-ZLW%3A29821001%2C29358102%2C29834201 : 25 June 2014), Little Walsingham > Baptisms, Marriages, Burials > 1558-1733 > image 87 of 116; Record Office, Norwich.
  32. “Probate records v. 1-3 1654-1673”, database with images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9D5-BQSH : 5 May 2023) or (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9D5-B5RF  : Transcribed), FHL microfilm 007554513, image 70-71, Middlesex, Massachusetts, Vol 1, 1654-1661.
  33. England, Richmond, The National Archives - Kew. Will of Jeremiah Norcrosse or Norcross of Walsingham, Norfolk, 05 April 1658, reference: PROB 11/274/320
  34. “Probate records v. 1-3 1654-1673”, database with images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9D5-B3TM : 7 May 2023) or (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9D5-B58V  : Transcription), FHL microfilm 007554513, image 97-98, Middlesex, Massachusetts, Vol 1, 1654-1661, Page 178-179.

See Also:

  • Anderson, Robert Charles. The Great Migration Directory, Immigrants to New England 1620-1640. Boston: New England Historical Genealogical Society, 2015, p. 241.
  • Banks, Charles Edward. The History of Martha's Vineyard, Dukes County, Massachusetts: Town annals. Boston: George H. Dean, 1911, p. 44-45.
  • Bond, Henry. Genealogies of the Families and Descendants of the Early Settlers of Watertown, Massachusetts. Boston: N. E. Historic-genealogical society, 1860, p. 376.
  • Pope, Charles Henry. The Pioneers of Massachusetts. Boston: pub. by the author, 1900, p. 330.
  • Early New England Families. (Original Online Database: AmericanAncestors.org, New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2013. (By Alicia Crane Williams, Lead Genealogist), 6 pages, Subscription $
  • Stearns, Ezra S. Genealogical and Family History of the State of New Hampshire. Vol. 2. New York: Lewis Publishing Company, 1908 p. 681.
  • Savage, James. The First Settlers of new England. Vol III. Boston: Little, Brown & Co., 1861, p. 186-187.
  • The American Genealogist. New Haven, CT: D. L. Jacobus. (Online database. AmericanAncestors.org. New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2009 - .) Robert Charles Anderson. John Smith of Watertown, Massachusetts. Vol. 61, p. 26-28. Subscription $




Is Jeremiah your ancestor? Please don't go away!
 star icon Login to collaborate or comment, or
 star icon contact private message private message a profile manager, or
 star icon ask our community of genealogists a question.
Sponsored Search by Ancestry.com

DNA
No known carriers of Jeremiah's DNA have taken a DNA test.

Have you taken a DNA test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.



Comments: 50

Leave a message for others who see this profile.
There are no comments yet.
Login to post a comment.
If there are no objections, I plan to mark the father as uncertain. Does this warrant a Research Note Box regarding the changed father? We already remark about this in Research Notes.--Gene
posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
Hope to learn the works consulted reported by Anderson in his entry about thie Jeremiah "Jeremy" Norcross.

Reference--Robert Charles Anderson, The Great Migration Directory: Immigrants to New England, 1620–1640: A Concise Compendium (Boston, Massachusetts : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2015), 241.

Any assistance you are able to provide is appreciated.--Gene

posted by GeneJ X
GMD p. 241:

Norcross, Jeremiah: London; 1639; Watertown; returned permanently to England by 1656 [WaTR 1:5; WaBOP 20; MBCR 1:311; CaBOP 115-16, 121; Rodgers 1:288-90; Waters 1041; NYGBR 40:183-84; TAG 61:18-31; Granberry 283-84; Abandoning 219-21].

Hope this is helpful.

posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
Just received a reply from The. clothworkers Company archivists t

Dear Ann, Thank you for your enquiry concerning Jeremiah Norcross, and please accept my apologies for the extended delay in responding. If you haven’t already had a look at ROLLCO – the online membership database – it is worth doing so. I searched for Norcr* to capture variations in spelling: https://www.londonroll.org/search/?vb=lr&vw=ps&st=0&rf=company%3Aclw%7Csurname%3Anorcr%2A%7Cyear_start%3A1400%7Cyear_finish%3A1900&sb=event_year&sa=0 The freedom date for the first entry, Jeremias Norcro, would fit with your research. Unfortunately, our apprenticeship records do not begin until 1606, so don’t include him as apprenticeships usually lasted for seven years, and those are the records which often include the father’s name.

A search of our information files has revealed a previous enquiry concerning the Norcross name, from someone working on a Norcross family tree project in Canada, although the link given to the website no longer works. Aside from Jeremiah, the only other name we found was Tobias Norcrosse, made Free by apprenticeship to Jeremie Norcrosse. He had been bound for seven years on 10 March 1625/6 when he was described as the son of Egidius [ie Giles] Norcrosse of Beckington, Somerset, deceased.

Further information supplied by the enquirer is as follows: The Norcross family came originally from Ribchester, Lancashire. In the period 1560-1640 one Norcross branch headed by Thomas Norcross resided in London and a few records of that family are in the All Hallows, Bread Street, parish registers. We have been told that Thomas and his eldest son, John, were members of the Haberdashers’ Company. A second son, Jeremiah, is indicated in the parish registers as a Clothworker.

You may also be interested to learn that Jeremiah was given £10 by The Clothworkers’ Company in 1639 towards travel to New England.

I hope this information is useful to your research. Kind regards, Hannah Dunmow Archivist The Clothworkers’ Company

posted by Ann Browning
Just checking up on how Jeremiah was doing and found a lot of comments...

I know little about the PGM but I know a great deal about London of the period. It was almost universal for male citizens of London (it's been estimated as 95%+) to have gone through the apprenticeship system. The emergence of a mercantile class and the huge opportunities for overseas trade meant that most of the cash-rich men in England were London citizens and their sons would have been duly apprenticed along with the sons of fishmongers or cobblers. Furthermore the Clothworkers was one of the richest livery companies, one of the "Great Twelve", and would have a reasonably high apprentice fee. Nowadays we would associate the garment industry with low-paid work but Jeremiah must have come from a reasonable prosperous background. Just because he was apprenticed to a member of the Clothworkers it does not necessarily imply he was doing menial labour or that the business was poorly paid. The fact that he trained a number of apprentices soon after becoming a Freeman of the company suggests he was successful and could easily have made a small fortune in 20 years, certainly enough to buy land in Massachusetts. As for sending his son to Cambridge you can see rank of the fathers of Cambridge students and while many are indeed "gentlemen" you will also find many were yeoman farmers or citizens of London.

The objective facts are that a Jeremie Norcross was baptised in Priston in 1588 and a "Jeremias Norcro" became a Freeman of the Clothworkers in 1609. It was extremely common for apprenticeships to end at the age of 21 so this fits perfectly. It would be strange for someone born in 1585 to not complete their apprenticeship until 1609, particularly for a Londoner. My own very minor contribution to this profile was the discovery that his very first apprentice, in 1611, was from a couple of miles from Priston. These are tiny places in Somerset with a few hundred inhabitants. It's very hard to maintain that the Priston baptism and the London clothworker are not the same person.

If Nick, or anyone else, wants to maintain that the immigrant was a different man, presumably the son of Thomas, then it's time to produce some evidence. Where is this 1585 All Hallows birth? I can't locate it.

posted by Matthew Fletcher
edited by Matthew Fletcher
Hi Matthew,

Thank you for all of your work on this family.

I'm in awe of the amazing work and collaboration on this profile. I find a ton of associations, but wonder if we have found the glue.

Do we have any direct evidence linking the adult, Jeremy--who immigrated to New England and then returned to England--with the now linked father, George? Ala, have we discovered any direct evidence that the "Jeremie Norcrosse on 5 May 1588 at All Saints, Priston, Somerset, England" is the same person who immigrated to New England?

I adopted George's orphaned profile. It does not seem we were able to follow him to the discovery of his death or probate.

There is so much work here. My apologies if I have overlooked what should have been obvious.--Gene

posted by GeneJ X
A very quick response from THe Haberdashers Company archivist but unfortunately no help

'I have had a look in our digitised records of Bindings and Freedoms that cover our membership. I don’t find any record for Thomas or indeed any of the Norcross family. So he was certainly not one of our members.


Online the ROLLCO Database, of some Livery Company records, shows The Clothworkers Company did have quite a few members of a Norcross family as their members. I don’t see one called Thomas however.'

posted by Ann Browning
Nope. Off the top of my head I recall Jeremy, George and Tobias. Giles, also from Somerset, was also mentioned (Tobias' father) but doesn't seem to have been a member.

Thanks so much for looking into this Ann!

Oops, sorry! You were talking about the haberdashers. I meant the clothworkers. Let me look again at the ROLLCO website. I remember looking at the haberdashers names, but can't remember what I found there.

posted by Marcia (Bonnet) Benjamin
edited by Marcia (Bonnet) Benjamin
So the haberdashers don't seem to be included with the ROLLCO database. Sorry about the mix up. We'll have to trust their archivist.

I did check the ROLLCO guilds again. They only seem to appear as part of the clothworkers guild.

The answer may lie in the Clothworkers guild. They should have a historian so I’ll send a letter.

https://www.clothworkers.co.uk/

Ann

posted by Ann Browning
I removed a picture from this profile. It was a page of a book taken from the Ancestry website.
See Charles E. Banks in his three-volume "History of Martha's Vineyard, Dukes County, Mass.", 1925. From Vol. 2, Edgartown Town Annals, he refers to him as: "...Jeremiah Norcross, a well-to-do gentleman of a London family, connected with the parishes of St. Mary, Sunbury, Middlesex and Saints Dunstan and Sepulchre in London. He was son of Thomas Norcross, a linen draper, married his second wife, Adrian Smith, about 1630 and came to America 8 or 9 years later. (footnote: A manuscript gen. of this family by Joel W. Norcross, in the library of the NEHGS published 1882.) There may indeed have been a Jeremiah or "Jeremie" Norcross christened in 1588 in Priston, Somerset, England, but I submit that this is not the same person as Jeremiah Norcross born three years earlier in 1585, 128 miles from Priston, in All Hallows, London, Middlesex and known to have been a Londoner. Adrian Smith appears to have also been a Londoner and Jeremiah Norcross and Adrian Smith were married in London.
posted by Nick Marks
Hi Nick! Thank you for your interest! I have read Charles E. Banks' essay along with a few others when I was working on Jeremiah's profile. I actually worked on the whole family as it helped me make sense of dates, people and important events in their lives. Of all the profiles I've worked on for the PGM project I can tell you this is one of the most solid profiles in terms of sources. I have no reason to doubt my conclusions. Since you have doubts I'd suggest you take a look at the parish books for All Hallows Bread Street in London (available at the FS website) where several family members are referred to by name, and where Jeremiah is referred to as a clothworker. I'd also take a look at his two wills (Adrian left one as well). You can find links on their profiles. A lot about his life has been documented and it all fits nicely. I understand everybody thought he was Thomas Norcross' son but so far no primary source has been found to support that claim. When I work on a profile, I do not set out to prove that someone is high born or a commoner, I just go where the primary sources lead me. In this case, I found the world of English livery workers absolutely fascinating! I believe Jeremiah was very prosperous but I don't believe he was a gentleman. Of course, new documentation could come to light to disprove that, until then I'll keep believing he was a clothworker who lived in London at some point in his life. Because that's where the primary sources led me. I'll believe he was born in London when I find a birth/baptism record. Same goes for Adrian/Audrey, all we know for sure is that she married Jeremiah in London, that she was a widow then and that they lived there before moving to New England. We don't know who was her first husband, we don't know her maiden name or her place of birth. Until we find a document that tells us where she was born all we can say is that she lived in London at some point in her life, she got married and gave birth to several children there. I hope that helps.
posted by Marcia (Bonnet) Benjamin
edited by Marcia (Bonnet) Benjamin
Objectivity is of course absolutely required. And it is objectivity that tells us that a baptism record of 1588 for a "Jeremie Norcrosse" in 1588 in Priston, Somerset, does not NECESSARILY refer to the same Jeremiah Norcrosse who we know lived in London and married Adrian Smith there. Objectively, all we know with regard to the baptism record is that someone named 'Jeremie Norcrosse' was christened in Priston in 1588. Objectively, the Jeremiah Norcross of this profile who married Adrian should not have "George" listed as his father either. I would be satisfied with an 'uncertain' or 'unknown' in the case of both parents.
posted by Nick Marks
edited by Nick Marks
Please note Matthew’s comment further down. Thomas may have been some sort of relation but there is no reason why Jeremiah couldn’t have been sent to London from Somerset as an apprentice which is how he ended up in London.

Ann

posted by Ann Browning
On precisely the same principle, there's no reason why "Jeremie Norcrosse" of the baptism record can't refer to some other person rather than Jeremiah Norcross(e) who married Adrian Smith. We know Jeremiah used the name 'Jeremiah' rather than 'Jeremie' in his will. If you see THE ENGLISH NORCROSS FAMILY AND SOME OF THE DESCENDANTS OF WILLIAM (3) NORCROSS 1699 TO AMERICA Edited by Elsie M. Cameron, Jeremiah Norcross, along with John Norcross are said to have inherited property from their mother Mary Chappell, wife of Thomas Norcross.
posted by Nick Marks
I couldn't agree more on being objective. But in this case, objectively, no other source has surfaced to indicate any other father or birth place. Since I did not speak to the man himself, absolute certainty is not in the cards for us here, or ever in historical terms. All we can do is follow what written records we have. This is where they lead at the moment. If other records were to surface in the future showing that this Jeremiah is not the one who was born in Priston, Somerset, that would be another story. With the records we have available now, Priston, Somerset seems to be the only plausible origin for him and George seems to be the only option as a father.
If you want to leave the realm of pure objectivity for a moment and indulge in plausible conjecture, how plausible is it that Jeremiah Norcrosse would have become as prosperous as he was in the mid 17th century, by having been simply an apprenticed cloth-worker? See see THE ENGLISH NORCROSS FAMILY AND SOME OF THE DESCENDANTS OF WILLIAM (3) NORCROSS 1699 TO AMERICA Edited by Elsie M. Cameron, Jeremiah Norcross, along with John Norcross are said to have inherited property from their mother Mary Chappell, wife of Thomas Norcross.
posted by Nick Marks
Apprentices came from wealthy families, not necessarily a poor or middling one. There was a vast amount of money to be made in cloth, the Clopton, Dister and Cordell families made vast amounts even though their father, grandfather or great grandfather had been hand weavers.

I shall write to the Clothworkers company who very likely have records of Jeremiah. If in the meantime you find a baptism for him that would settle the doubt.

Regards, Ann

posted by Ann Browning
Thanks. But there is nothing more important in these matters than remaining objective, which I understand can be difficult at times.
posted by Nick Marks
Out of curiosity what is your interest in the Norcross line?

Regards, Ann

posted by Ann Browning
So we're supposed to believe that he did not come from a wealthy background but, in the early 1600's, built up enough wealth from being a cloth worker for a few years, to have enough money to purchase land (rather than receive it as a grant) in Massachusetts colony, and eventually earn his living mainly as a buyer and seller of land? He must have been quite the cloth worker for the first few years after his apprenticeship! The period of the late 16th and early 17th century is not a period in history which is notable for affording people a great deal of upward mobility. Typically, if you had wealth, you CAME FROM wealth. It seems you might be imposing your 21st century mindset of the cult of the self-made man/woman onto an early 17th century man. What's more, you're being disingenuous in representing the baptism record as absolutely, without question, referring to the Jeremiah Norcross who lived in London, when the baptism record is for a 'Jeremie' Norcross, baptized 128 miles away from London in 1588. I've never seen Jeremiah's year of birth listed as 1588 and typically one was baptized a few days or weeks after one's birth. You imply that the baptism record says categorically 'Jeremiah' when it actually says 'Jeremie.' This may seem trivial, but, during the period in question baptism records formally established a person's name; and we know without a doubt that on Jeremiah's will it says 'Jeremiah. If the situation were reversed, I bet you'd make the same point. I'm not sure what is motivating this disingenuousness. For the last 400 years Jeremiah's father has been identified as Thomas Norcross. See "The history and genealogy of the Norcross family : January 1st, 1882" hand written by Joel Warren Norcross. A single baptism record for a "Jeremie" Norcrosse in Somerset, means all that has been said before must be dismissed? What's more, Jeremiah's son Nathaniel was a Cambridge University graduate. With admittedly a few exceptions, during this period of history, typically if one went to Cambridge or Oxford, one was a gentleman. Like I said before, from a purely objective point of view, the baptism record is enough to make the status of Jeremiah's parentage 'unknown' or at least 'uncertain.'
posted by Nick Marks
edited by Nick Marks
Hi Nick,

While all of our work is subject to review, refinement, etc., Marcia has done a lot of good work on this profile. You've demonstrated your own commitment to the work as well.

Hoping only to be helpful, might your work and arguments form the basis of a free space page? Such an approach would provide you the space and organizational framework to layout both your sources and arguments.

Thank you for supporting WikiTree.--Gene, lover of all things, WikiTree, but especially partial to free space pages ...

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
Thank you, Gene! I agree with you. This profile was built with the primary sources that were available. If more sources come to light, data and conclusions should be reviewed. And answering your comment about Ann's contribution: isn't she terrific?
Thank you Ann ... as always, shining a light on a path forward. --Gene
posted by GeneJ X
I have contacted the archivists from both the Clothworkers Company and the Haberdashers Company to see if they have anything in their archives that sheds some light. Most of the Livery Company archivists are very helpful so fingers crossed.

Ann

posted by Ann Browning
Well there are various baptisms in London with father THomas Norcross but none for a Jeremiah. What is the source cited in the book?

Ann

posted by Ann Browning
Hey Ann! I don't remember any sources mentioned when it came to Jeremiah's birth in any of the essays I read about him and his family. I believe it's one of those assumptions that got carried over from one author to another and after being repeated so many times it became accepted as a fact. Like you, I couldn't find any connection between Jeremiah and Thomas Norcross. They share the same surname but that's where it stops as far as primary sources are concerned.
Does anyone have any sources showing that Thomas Norcross and Mary Chappell were Jeremiah's parents? I haven't been able to find any evidence of that. I did find a birth record showing a George Norcross as father instead.

update on 07.10.22: detached Thomas Norcross and Mary Chappell as parents and attached George Norcross as father, as per baptism record found.

posted by Marcia (Bonnet) Benjamin
edited by Marcia (Bonnet) Benjamin
There is an additional livery apprentice record which was missed because the surname has been wrongly transcribed as Morcrosse. Ric[ard]us (Richard) Harford, son of William Harford, Tailor, of Tembesbury, Somerset was apprenticed to Jeremie in 1611. Tembesbury is the village of Timsbury (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timsbury,_Somerset) which is literally a couple of miles from Priston. I think this decisively proves that the Clothworker Jeremie Norcross is the 1588 Priston baptism and he should be detached from his parents.
posted by Matthew Fletcher
It looks like the two Jeremiah are the same but he left a will in England which appears to suggest he died in England as he says he left a will with Chaddock in New England. I'm just doing a very quick transcription of the English will.

Ann

posted by Ann Browning
Some authors state that he went to England for a visit but died there. He made a second will then which didn't cancel the first one. So supposedly he went to visit and never came back. It's also possible that they had decided to move back to England. I haven't got there yet.
Francis Massey St Mary Aldermary, living at All Hallows BRead STreet

Wife, Sarah Norcross daughter of Jeremiah Norcross and Audrey Smith Married 30 NOv 1631 at All Hallows Bread Street Profession Hot presser, citizen and stationer Will: PCC 1663 Died 7 April 1663 and what looks like Captain buried at St Mary Aldermary



Mary bap 23 Feb 1633 Rebecca bap 15 Jan 1635 Matthew 8 Dec 1637 buried 2 Aug 1641 Samuel 3 March 1638 Henry 8 March 1639 William 23 May 1641 Frances 8 Dec 1643 Francis 5 Jan 1646 buried 7 Jan 1646 Sarah buried 2 April 1635


Ann

posted by Ann Browning
Details from Boyd's:

Jeremaih Norcross Wife Audrey Smith Married 1611 at Chelsea , Middlesex Profession Clothworker Chldren: Richard bap 16 Dec 1621 Mary , bapt. 5 Sep 1626 buried 7 September 1626 Sarah married Francis Massey Anna married Samuel Davis

Ann

posted by Ann Browning
edited by Ann Browning
Another daughter Anna/Anne married Samuel Davis in 1631

Ann

posted by Ann Browning
edited by Ann Browning
Thank you, again! I had seen a mention to Anna somewhere but couldn't find any records connecting her to Jeremy and Audrie. Would you mind sharing the reference?
Look further up in the comments as I transcribed the Boyd’s records from Find My Past.

Ann

posted by Ann Browning
I put a transcription of the record on Samuel Davis’s profile for Anna and him plus family.

Ann

posted by Ann Browning
edited by Ann Browning
Daughter Sarah and husband had 9 children by 1631
posted by Ann Browning
I plan to work on Sarah's profile next. It's a GEDCOM import and looks very sad at the moment.
I’m off to Portugal for 10 days from Saturday, when I come back I’ll transcribe Audry/ Adrean’s will. Haven’t got time to do now.

Ann

posted by Ann Browning
How wonderful! Enjoy! I'm particularly fond of Portuguese food! As for the transcription, that would be wonderful whenever you're able to. Have a great time!
This looks like it might well be him Edited to add this is his daughter Sarah

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBOR%2FBIL%2FSOG30%2F0211&parentid=GBPRS%2FBIL%2F00171303

Ann

posted by Ann Browning
edited by Ann Browning
Thank you! Find my past won't let me look at that one though.
Working on this profile at this time, updating the biography using more recent reliable sources.
  • I question what the source is for the surname of Jeremiah's wife, "Chadwick?" I didn't find that LNAB while I was researching. Please respond. Thank you.

edit: I note that "my friend Charles Chaddock of Newe England" is mentioned in the will of Jeremiah Norcross... but that in no way implies that his wife's surname was "Chadwick."

posted by Cheryl (Aldrich) Skordahl
edited by Cheryl (Aldrich) Skordahl
I noticed that as well Cheryl. That is the last name given to her on the family search profile, added without any source to justify that. I'm assuming the Chadwick was copied from the FS profile. On their marriage records she appears as Audrie Smithe, but she was a widow so I believe that to be her first husband's name. Unless we find records of her first marriage to John Smith her maiden name will remain a mystery.
Hi Henry, I added 3 sources (recently published) under "See Also." They are at American Ancestors and can only be seen by subscription. Are you subscribed to that site?

One of the sources is The Great Migration Directory, so Jeremiah and his wife Adrean and son Nathaniel are all eligible to be in the Puritan Great Migration Project. I'll add the project box.

Jeremiah NORCROSS was the Uncle of Anna (NORCROSS) DAVIS, not her Father.

Will of Jeremiah Norcross of Watertown, Massachusetts

To my brother's daughter Anna Davis, the wife of Samuel Davis a like ewe sheep (in specie) and to her daughter Hannah her eldest child one like ewe sheep.

In witness whereof I set to my hand and seal this 15th day of September 1654.

posted by Jimmy M. Sisson
http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/l/a/s/Denise--H-Lasswell/GENE3-0002.html

Descendants of Thomas Norcross (*)

Generation No. 2

4.Jeremiah2 Norcross (Thomas Norcross1 (*)) was born 1595 in London, England, and died 1657 in Watertown, Middlesex Co. Massachusetts.He married Adrean Smith 1638-1639 in Watertown, Middlesex Co. Massachusetts. Notes for Jeremiah Norcross: Information from: Genealogical Dictionary; First Settlers of New England. pp. 142,286 Jeremiah: A.B. from University of Cambridge. Will: 9/15/1654; Children of Jeremiah Norcross and Adrean Smith are: 7 i. Nathaniel3 Norcross.

8 ii. Richard Norcross.

9 iii. Sarah Norcross.She married Francis Macy.

10 iv. Mary Norcross.

11 v. John Smith.

[ JMS- I believe that John SMITH was his stepson.]

posted by Jimmy M. Sisson